If what you said is true, that by not meeting CARB the cost of production (and all items that come before that) goes down, then car manufacturers would be able to sell less cars at higher profit, thus increasing profitability and share price and share holders money.
So because something impacts more than just their state, that specific item can no longer be managed by state regulations?
nvm, i'm done discussing this. You're just going to keep going further and further into "**** states rights, it's interstate based thus it's federal"
A) Selling cars
B) Renting apartments
C) Mowing lawns
D) Mercenary contracts
Would you like to use your lifeline?
No manufacturer is going to sell us a cheaper car just because they get some emissions concessions. It has never works that way. No matter what rules they have to follow, the price of a Camry will continue to go up and only up $XXX per year regardless. If they can save a few pennies on making one a bit less emissions strict then they pocket the difference, or they add on a CARB fee going the other way.
Every manufacturer has the ability to just make 1 car for the US... they just have to go to the most stringent rules. No one is forcing them to make a more-pollute-y car for the non-CARB states, are they? (genuine question, with this Administration, it wouldn't surprise me).
Other people have already responded well enough that I don't feel I need to dwell too much, but,
Frankly, the manufacturers we're talking about are truly global entities. Even the American companies with less overseas footprint, say Tesla or Ford (yes, relative to GM and FCA), aren't combatting the more stringent emissions standards. The ones taking the administration's side in this (which has a political reason in and of itself) vary from those who could financially struggle to meet them without decimating their sales through model changes or price hikes (say, GM) to those who could hybridize their entire lineup and meet them tomorrow (Toyota). It's not a statement of capability to meet the standards. All of them have already done the prep work for years to roll out things like turbo 4s, 48v mild hybrids with auto stop/start, electrified drivetrains, etc.. There's still some with competitive advantage over each other due to how they've positioned themselves, but bringing up a Riviera vs. a Bug (which, actually, also died in the US in the 70s to make way for the Golf, Civic, and Corolla) isn't very relevant to what we're on the precipice of right now. Neither size nor performance need to be killed to improve emissions.However, manufacturers like VW that are going to produce underwhelming underpowered vehicles in the EU anyway could have a leg up on domestic manufacturers that rely more heavily on sales of larger vehicles with more powerful engines, just as that gave them a foothold in the 70s and 80s when Democrat's rapid regulations destroyed the domestic vehicle manufacturer's hegemony in the US and allowed them to sell a lot of small underpowered bugs that weren't as heavily harmed as big Rivieras and Firebirds.
I won't even get into how this is somehow the fault of Democratic regulations when they controlled the executive for only 4 years of the 20 year span you bring up.
Are you suggesting the current administration, which threatened ripping up NAFTA and started to with arbitrary tariffs, only to end up ratifying a substantially similar update to NAFTA, is setting the groundwork for a single market standard and emissions standard? Yes, there's merit to doing so, but I think Canada and Mexico would like to be consulted on that too. Somehow I don't think that's what the only country to try and back out of the Paris Agreement on GHG emissions has in mind.You also say that we aren't operating in a vacuum, but don't forget that central and South America, that are part of the Americas, will not be adopting such an aggressive pace. Meixco for example for light passenger vehicles is still using as low as US tier 1 or euro 3 back from 94 and 00 respectively. The federal government setting a standard by which all Americans can abide, North and South Americans, would make for a single unified market and reduce costs and increase vehicle availability not just because its one standard but lower less expensive standards that offer higher performance at lower costs, all else equal.
Wow. They must be really desperate if they're having to sell into those "failed economies." They're totally "not producers" and I hear their economic growth rates are down...For the same reason they don't stop selling cars in all the other states... their job is to sell as many cars to as many people as they can. Cmon...
Cadillac may only offer the CTS but not the CTS-V, you may get the Challenger V6 but no Hellcat or Scat Pack, probably the smaller engine F-150 but no Raptors or anything, Velosters but no N model, etc.
And for things like a Mustang, look to Germany for your future, where a Mustang four-banger starts at $43K instead of the $26K in the US and a Mustang GT starts at $50K rather than $32K in the States, similar to the housing situation where $335K buys you this <1K sqft mobile home in California rather than this 3.7K sqft much nicer house and property in Texas.
Laws have market consequences, that's all I'm saying. If you want EU regulations, first take a really close look at the EU and see what you're giving up.
Last edited by Ducman69; 06-30-2020 at 02:40 PM.
Since I'm not an expert on these various things like you I'll speak only of your incorrect assumptions about which I'm well educated.
The emissions regulations on Bugs were decimating. It raised temperatures to the point that the design was no longer capable of shedding that much heat. Many things were tried to help, but it would have taken a complete redesign to get it to survive. Since the public no longer wanted a tiny car designed in the 1930s that wasn't really a viable option. How to get past that point... I know! Let's simply start using a completely different design philosophy that would transform the company completely! No biggie! It isn't such a big change as what the Americans and their big cars will have to go through.
Decimating is the correct word.
Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
What is strange about this whole issue is that at the core of conservative/republican beliefs is state rights; that the states have primacy to make their own decisions and determinations free from federal interference.
In this case you have a state that is choosing it's own emissions standards. No one has to make cars for them - but in classic republican/capitalist realities - California's big car market cannot be ignored. So CA is just flexing it's muscle in a classically Republican state-rights way - and yet the Republican administration is fighting that decision. Let CA do what it wants. Let the market decide what pain threshold is tolerable. If CA wants to make it where the only thing that passes CARB are electric mopeds - let them, the citizens there will either embrace that decisions as reflective of their wishes, or vote-in a state government that accurately reflects their wishes. Okay that last sentence is wishful thinking but still, let CA do what it wants.
FYI I am conservative (but socially liberal).
Says the racist leftists, you know, who nominated a:
Rich, white, male for representation
And left the:
Not so rich, minority, and many females, in the dust no f's given.
No outrage for all the leftists assaulting, killing and doing $400,000,000+ in damages this month? You know, pounding the piss outta whites while screaming your cause?
Show me screen shots of your fake outrage amongst the Obama, Clinton & Biden trifecta of Hillary's life long mentor Robert Byrd. A senior KKK, official recruiter for the Klan. Will making homophobic remarks, and pushing to not allow enlistment into the armed forces.
Shall we keep going? Or call a draw?
The violence, property damage, lack of composer, anarchy, death, assaults, doxing, screaming, rioting, looting, injury, attempted vehicular man slaughter....
Try this for size, show me the counter to the leftist mob who destroyed my work: "Millions in damage at Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall and area after Saturday night protests turn violent."
That's a leftist mob, get it? Show me 500+ Trump supporters going full blown anarchy? Death, injury, assault, ruined businesses.
Hello? Hellllllooooooo? Mcfly?
Oh, that's just Scottsdale, shall we add the other 20 cities which would make a ratio of left vs right on anarchy to:
.05:10 (32 power)
Politics aside, and a serious question: If people claim to care so much about the environment, why isn't anyone doing anything on an individual scale? Seems like a lot of talk with no substance. I'm surprised the streets are filled with ~40mpg ruckus's, mopeds, etc...hell...they'd end up paying for themselves.
Last edited by The A1 and A2 German; 06-30-2020 at 03:03 PM.
FS:Custom '73 CB350 Museum Piece, 8 miles FS:3 Piece I-Forged 19" Rims
FS:Custom '69 Stinger: SOLD FS:10' VTWIN Chopper SOLD :
I also find it interesting that you don't think its strange about the whole issue is that the core of liberal/democrat belief is federal rights; that the federal government should have primacy over things like the environment that affects everyone and yet here they side with California over the majority and federal authority.