Fourtitude.com - Quality suspension parts... where to get?
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Fourtitude.com


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 27
    1. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 12:35 PM #1
      How do you know what you order online is any good? I'm looking at buying control arms for the Fit and they're complete with bushings and ball joints. They range from about $60 to a bit over $100. What companies are reputable in this day and age? Moog has them, are they still good or are they the same Chinese parts as the names I've never heard of? How do you know?

      I'm considering struts while I'm in there and since it's a beater I'll probably go with KYB, but what else should I consider?
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. 06-03-2020 12:51 PM #2
      OEM Honda suspension parts > aftermarket (in most cases, pricey, but they last)

    4. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 23rd, 2000
      Location
      Shepherdstown, WV
      Posts
      24,067
      06-03-2020 12:54 PM #3
      I hate this subject and basically make no money on any parts I sell due to the amount of time I waste on this very topic.

      for various cars I've used just about all the main brands listed on the avg suspension list from say rockauto including; moog, acdelco, mevotech etc Sometimes it is honestly hard to tell a difference between ones that cost 20 bucks or 80 bucks. I've ordered the ACdelco professional? I think that is their top.. and the part has shown up in a third party box.. not an ACdelco one But there are differences even among single brands with super budget chinese clones and also ones actually improved over OE (what that ac delco pro is supposed to be)


      Unfortunately the answer is there isn't an answer. Even if someone had good luck with moog on car X it might mean moog buys it from a different supplier for car Y and it sucks. Fit forums probably the best place to ask and only make sure it is someone commenting on using it on their Fit and not even another honda.


      Or just go genuine honda, even "OEM" is a con way too often now so be careful. As an Audi owner this statement is completely do as a say not as I do because some of those prices are bonkers

    5. Member Samson's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 2nd, 1999
      Posts
      12,285
      Cars
      Lifted G-wagon, lifted AWD Prius
      06-03-2020 12:55 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      How do you know what you order online is any good? I'm looking at buying control arms for the Fit and they're complete with bushings and ball joints. They range from about $60 to a bit over $100. What companies are reputable in this day and age? Moog has them, are they still good or are they the same Chinese parts as the names I've never heard of? How do you know?

      I'm considering struts while I'm in there and since it's a beater I'll probably go with KYB, but what else should I consider?
      When I replaced the lower control arms on my old G35, I went with Beck/Arnley. They weren't as nicely finished as OEM (which doesn't really matter), but they were 50% of the cost and seemed fine for the ~15k I put on them. From what I could find, it seems that most brands have good and bad. I haven't had the best luck with Moog or KYB mounts, but I'm sure that's application-specific.

      One thing that I've learned is that if the factory stuff lasted a long time and you plan to keep the vehicle for a while after replacement, get factory parts if you can.

    6. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 01:07 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      I hate this subject...
      Understood. I used to sell parts, including at a Beck/Arnley distributor, but that was a hundred years ago. Things have changed, to say the least.

      Reboxing is not a surprise either, no matter the brand.

      I'm thinking it might be worth the risk to go with something like Moog, but not a no-name brand. I'll definitely price OEM stuff too, but how do I know it's real OEM?
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    7. Member Dal97GLX's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 14th, 2001
      Location
      NorCal
      Posts
      1,600
      Cars
      '16 GTI S DSG, ‘19 Tiguan SE, Felt IA16, Specialized Roubaix(RIP)
      06-03-2020 01:15 PM #6
      This reminds me of oil filters. $25 VAG vs. $10 Fram vs. $8 generic house brand. All 3 side to side, you couldn't tell them apart. Either Mahle made all of them or the generic brand was the manufacturer for all of them. I still stuck with OEM but that irked me forever.

    8. Member
      Join Date
      Aug 4th, 2016
      Posts
      2,056
      Cars
      Unreliable pregnant guppy, 'Reliable' Family Truckster, Plug-in Bulldog
      06-03-2020 01:24 PM #7
      Yeah, more than anything it feels like aftermarket car suspension is pretty wild-west when it comes to quality. you really never know what you're gonna get. So many brands just repackage other parts and god knows if they do sufficient or any QC on the parts before they send them out.

      OEM is the only way to make sure. Sometimes you can find out who the OE supplier is and can buy direct but that's harder and harder to do it seems. I rolled the dice with delco LCAs for my van and so far so good, but god knows if they'll even last 20k miles, much less the 80-100k I'd expect out of OEM. Toyota stuff is 4x the price though, so *shrug*

    9. 06-03-2020 01:29 PM #8
      OEM brand or bust, when possible. If not, then a long standing reputable supplier.

    10. Member Pnuu's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 27th, 2005
      Location
      WA
      Posts
      5,747
      Cars
      GX, Taco, Tiguan, bikes
      06-03-2020 01:38 PM #9
      Moog and most other big name chain store brands don't manufacture their own parts, so you never know what you're going to get. It may be a good quality part in a Moog box, or a junk Chinese part in a Moog box.

      I try to stick with OEM, or one of the manufacturers who is an OEM supplier. An example of this is Toyota ball joints - Sankei/555 is an OEM manufacturer, and their ball joints match those that come in a Toyota OEM box. Same with Koyo and Toyota radiators.

      So either buy OEM online at the best price you can find, or research who makes the OEM parts and buy that brand.

    11. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 23rd, 2000
      Location
      Shepherdstown, WV
      Posts
      24,067
      06-03-2020 01:39 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I'll definitely price OEM stuff too, but how do I know it's real OEM?
      You can't.. and that isn't the whole problem with OEM now.

      If you take OEM to its literally meaning it just means they were an original manufacture.

      (not so perfect example)

      Say you see a Bosch AC compressor listed as OEM because Bosch was an OE supplier for the alternator so they are OEM.. but they are not the OEM of the ac compressor it was say a sanden. So you're like sweet this bosch one is 200 bucks and the genuine one is 800 bucks.. but really you're getting a 100 buck chinese one in a Bosch box.
      Sure the seller didn't lie to you about that part being from an OEM.. but that company never had anything to do with the original part.


      I've joked my A3 is OEM+ running its GTX3071R because Garrett is an OEM for VW/Audi




      Something like a suspension part is often difficult to actually find OEM as the part manufacture usually has no right to make it and sell. You'll see the market flooded at some point with white box parts they were authorized to sell off from their intentional over building of original run, or they agree to tool up for replacements if they can supply the aftermarket to offset cost.


      This doesn't even get into the defunct/bought out old euroish brand names or just made up ones that are owned by chinese firms or large conglomerates packaging up crap from china under a euro sounding name tricking people to spend more. not sure if that happens with Honda parts.

    12. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 23rd, 2000
      Location
      Shepherdstown, WV
      Posts
      24,067
      06-03-2020 01:41 PM #11
      OEM and Genuine are not the same thing.

    13. Member Harold's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 31st, 2000
      Location
      New Hampshire
      Posts
      4,791
      Cars
      2018 Golf R, '96 993
      06-03-2020 01:43 PM #12
      When you say OEM, there is a brand that is called OEM. In that case it has nothing to do with Original Equipment Manufacturer.
      2018 Golf R , '96 993
      past:2004 Passat 4Mo, 1.8T, stick
      '96 Audi S6, forced to sell, F. U. nh emissions
      '87 VW Quantum syncro wagon, got me into quattro,
      '85 GTI, 17 yrs , 280k miles, '75 Nova (first car)

    14. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 01:57 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Pnuu View Post
      Moog and most other big name chain store brands don't manufacture their own parts, so you never know what you're going to get. It may be a good quality part in a Moog box, or a junk Chinese part in a Moog box.

      I try to stick with OEM, or one of the manufacturers who is an OEM supplier. An example of this is Toyota ball joints - Sankei/555 is an OEM manufacturer, and their ball joints match those that come in a Toyota OEM box. Same with Koyo and Toyota radiators.

      So either buy OEM online at the best price you can find, or research who makes the OEM parts and buy that brand.
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      You can't.. and that isn't the whole problem with OEM now.

      If you take OEM to its literally meaning it just means they were an original manufacture.

      (not so perfect example)

      Say you see a Bosch AC compressor listed as OEM because Bosch was an OE supplier for the alternator so they are OEM.. but they are not the OEM of the ac compressor it was say a sanden. So you're like sweet this bosch one is 200 bucks and the genuine one is 800 bucks.. but really you're getting a 100 buck chinese one in a Bosch box.
      Sure the seller didn't lie to you about that part being from an OEM.. but that company never had anything to do with the original part.

      I've joked my A3 is OEM+ running its GTX3071R because Garrett is an OEM for VW/Audi

      Something like a suspension part is often difficult to actually find OEM as the part manufacture usually has no right to make it and sell. You'll see the market flooded at some point with white box parts they were authorized to sell off from their intentional over building of original run, or they agree to tool up for replacements if they can supply the aftermarket to offset cost.

      This doesn't even get into the defunct/bought out old euroish brand names or just made up ones that are owned by chinese firms or large conglomerates packaging up crap from china under a euro sounding name tricking people to spend more. not sure if that happens with Honda parts.
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      OEM and Genuine are not the same thing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Harold View Post
      When you say OEM, there is a brand that is called OEM. In that case it has nothing to do with Original Equipment Manufacturer.
      Yeah, I know all of those things, which is why I was trying to find a workaround to a known good quality part. :/

      Ha! I should know better.


      The other thing that worries me is counterfeit parts. I could get KYBs through Rock Auto for around $90, or Auto Zone for about $140. How do I know either is actually KYB any more? I know the answer to that as well, as you can't be certain.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    15. Senior Member
      Join Date
      Feb 23rd, 2000
      Location
      Shepherdstown, WV
      Posts
      24,067
      06-03-2020 02:07 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post

      The other thing that worries me is counterfeit parts. I could get KYBs through Rock Auto for around $90, or Auto Zone for about $140. How do I know either is actually KYB any more? I know the answer to that as well, as you can't be certain.
      Rock Auto and Autozone you are not going to have to worry about counterfeit parts, at least so far in my experience you are safe. They are not buying from a middle man they are going right to the manufacture.

      Some of the smaller brand specific resellers, not naming any since it may sound like accusing and I'm not, are where you might run into that because they are often just dealing with a middle man. That middle man might have some good intentions but they have been conned before. Buying alleged white box parts that turned out to be chinese knock offs.

      Amazon is a cluster, unless I'm just trying to get a cheap known chinese non critical part next day prime I don't touch it.


      now whether that KYB shock is made by KYB or they are having someone else make it for a specific application, that you'll likely never find out. But at least it should be made to KYBs specs and backed by them.

    16. Member
      Join Date
      Oct 22nd, 2007
      Location
      Syracuse, NY
      Posts
      4,051
      Cars
      982, F22, E88, etc.
      06-03-2020 02:12 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I'm thinking it might be worth the risk to go with something like Moog, but not a no-name brand. I'll definitely price OEM stuff too, but how do I know it's real OEM?
      Does the car have OEM on it now? Might be some minor changes, but there shouldn't major changes with the parts being replaced.

      I've seen some pretty convincing fakes, but you can usually spot something different. Like a part number that's molded in vs. etched vs. sticker'd. Most issues I've had are, unsurprisingly, with eBay retailers, but plenty of them are honest and it's not limited to there. Also even the packaging can be a clue--most OEMs have a recognizable box/bag sticker that they don't deviate from, and there's really no good reason for retailers to remove it.

      That said, aftermarket companies are probably OK too and can save some cash. As Chris said, it's just a luck of the draw thing, so basically you can save if you're willing to take a chance of doing it twice. Not sure how your quarantine is going, but personally I'd be happy to do work twice right now.
      Last edited by ghost03; 06-03-2020 at 02:14 PM.

    17. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 02:13 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Rock Auto and Autozone you are not going to have to worry about counterfeit parts, at least so far in my experience you are safe. They are not buying from a middle man they are going right to the manufacture.

      Some of the smaller brand specific resellers, not naming any since it may sound like accusing and I'm not, are where you might run into that because they are often just dealing with a middle man. That middle man might have some good intentions but they have been conned before. Buying alleged white box parts that turned out to be chinese knock offs.

      Amazon is a cluster, unless I'm just trying to get a cheap known chinese non critical part next day prime I don't touch it.


      now whether that KYB shock is made by KYB or they are having someone else make it for a specific application, that you'll likely never find out. But at least it should be made to KYBs specs and backed by them.
      That's good to know, and makes sense. I mean, I suppose it's possible that some supply guy at Auto Zone took a bribe from a knock-off supplier, but that risk seems pretty small.

      I would hope.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    18. 06-03-2020 02:29 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      The other thing that worries me is counterfeit parts. I could get KYBs through Rock Auto for around $90, or Auto Zone for about $140. How do I know either is actually KYB any more? I know the answer to that as well, as you can't be certain.
      Make sure that whoever you are buying from is an authorised dealer for the brand in question.

      Amazon isn't an authorised dealer for anything, and neither is ebay, and Alibaba most certainly isn't.

      If you are buying parts online, buy them from that authorised dealer directly.

    19. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 02:33 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by GoFaster View Post
      Make sure that whoever you are buying from is an authorised dealer for the brand in question.

      Amazon isn't an authorised dealer for anything, and neither is ebay, and Alibaba most certainly isn't.

      If you are buying parts online, buy them from that authorised dealer directly.
      I would only buy from Amazon or eBay if it were not critical. The low voltage lighting on my deck was through Amazon and they're great, but suspension parts? That'd be a giant "no" from me.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    20. Member Pennywise's Avatar
      Join Date
      Oct 18th, 2003
      Location
      San Francisco, CA
      Posts
      8,405
      Cars
      2015 Honda CRZ, 1991 Honda Civic Si, 1997 BMW M3/4/5
      06-03-2020 02:34 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      OEM Honda suspension parts > aftermarket (in most cases, pricey, but they last)
      +1 for this answer. Red label is the way to go if you're going to keep the car longer term.

      When working on my brother's 2012 Civic (130k on the clock), when I refreshed his suspension, I went through www.hondapartsnow.com
      Quote Originally Posted by woofsburger View Post
      It's reassuring to know that when I finally hit the 98th percentile of US individual income, that I may then buy my dream car - a Toyota Avalon.

    21. Member elite.mafia's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 17th, 2010
      Location
      I95 Northbound
      Posts
      3,678
      Cars
      2003 Toyota Matrix XRS
      06-03-2020 02:51 PM #20
      The best answer is to join an active forum for your car and ask what others have used. There are good aftermarket parts and bad ones. You may also consider going the scrapyard route or ebay/used route. I've had at least 3 different aftermarket part issues with my matrix in less than a year.... a bad rear caliper (powerstop rebuilt) that was grinding against the outside of the rotor, an incorrectly manufactured glass hatch strut (cheapest brand rockauto had, forget the name) (too long), and Bosch e-brake shoes that had some defective solder joint that was blocking the shoes from closing together all the way. The brake issues caused a lot of headache and I ended up eating the cost of the bosch shoes because they make you pay return shipping sometimes.

      If you want easy, no headache, get OEM. If you want to save money, do a lot of research and see if others have used the parts before. Certain parts can be fine aftermarket, others not so much.

      There are lots of online dealers that sell discounted OEM parts. That's typically what I do. Local dealer always charges full price but depending on what you need you can find new, OEM for much cheaper online. Also look on ebay for new/open box or even used OEM stuff.
      '03 Matrix XRS 6mt 2zz-ge

    22. Member
      Join Date
      Jul 12th, 2010
      Location
      Richmond, VA
      Posts
      1,810
      Cars
      84 Nissan dr30 skyline/86 z31 300zx/19 Tacoma/BMW F31 touring
      06-03-2020 03:11 PM #21
      From one of my best friends who owns a Honda shop.

      KYB struts and shocks. Complete control arms: TRW(best) or Dorman (ok). We typically just replace the bushings in them with factory bushings.
      Ball Joints: We use Sankei 555 and TRW (Rule of thumb is to never use aftermarket ball joints with grease fittings as the ones that come that way all suck)
      Everything I own is for sale for the right price. If you really want any of the cars I post about, shoot me a PM.

    23. Member 4.OMG's Avatar
      Join Date
      Dec 20th, 2004
      Location
      SE MI
      Posts
      4,814
      Cars
      It varies.
      06-03-2020 03:30 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by RVAE34 View Post
      From one of my best friends who owns a Honda shop.

      KYB struts and shocks. Complete control arms: TRW(best) or Dorman (ok). We typically just replace the bushings in them with factory bushings.
      Ball Joints: We use Sankei 555 and TRW (Rule of thumb is to never use aftermarket ball joints with grease fittings as the ones that come that way all suck)
      This. I would go with what professional mechanics who don't work at a dealership recommend. They've presumably replaced a lot more of these parts than the people you'll find on any forum and probably have a good idea which parts are least likely to result in a callback.
      Now this was a superior machine. Ten grand worth of gimmicks and high-priced special effects. The rear windows lit up with a touch like frogs in a dynamite pond. The dashboard was full of esoteric lights and dials and meters that I would never understand.

    24. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 04:05 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by RVAE34 View Post
      From one of my best friends who owns a Honda shop.

      KYB struts and shocks. Complete control arms: TRW(best) or Dorman (ok). We typically just replace the bushings in them with factory bushings.
      Ball Joints: We use Sankei 555 and TRW (Rule of thumb is to never use aftermarket ball joints with grease fittings as the ones that come that way all suck)
      Hot damn! That's what I'm looking for. Thanks bunches.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    25. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 5th, 2004
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      43,207
      Cars
      '66 Beetle (X2) '08 Fit
      06-03-2020 05:01 PM #24
      Are there any urethane control arm bushings that are good quality? The cheap stuff is dangerously bad and it's rampant in the air-cooled VW community, but I don't know what brands are good and bad in the rest of the world. I know urethane used to be good stuff, but now there's so much junk that simply crumbles.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    26. 06-03-2020 05:45 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Are there any urethane control arm bushings that are good quality?
      I'm inclined to say "no" with the explanation that there may be some that are utter rubbish, while others are merely bad.

      Aftermarket urethane bushings generally have an inner steel sleeve and are designed to slide (pivot) between the urethane and that sleeve. The stock bushings are bonded to the inner and outer shells and the bushing "pivots" by deflecting the rubber in shear. While that might initially sound like A Bad Thing ... that feature is a lot of what allows modern suspension to be (relatively) maintenance-free for a long time. No more "chassis lube jobs".

      Conventional aftermarket urethane bushings that are designed to have sliding surfaces will invariably allow a wee bit of water and dirt into that area, leading to wear, leading to schloppiness, leading to greatly increased water and dirt intrusion due to gaps starting to show up, leading to excessive wear in a big hurry.

      They may be acceptable in some applications: low annual mileage, fussy owner who frequently goes over the vehicle (race vehicles may be like this), vehicle not being driven in winter or on dirt roads, used in a suspension location that allows pure rotation of the bushing without deformation, used in an application where there is low relative motion of the bushing (upper damper mounts may fit this category), etc. And of course, vehicles for which original replacement parts are not available or no longer suitable for some reason.

      For a modern daily-driver where people don't want to be changing suspension parts until past 100,000 km and don't want to be going underneath the vehicle every few weeks to lubricate the bushings ... they're not a good choice.

      If you can find an aftermarket urethane bushing that is soft enough to work like the OEM elastic-deformation arrangement with bonded inner and outer sleeves, maybe it will be OK.

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •