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    1. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      03-18-2020 12:44 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      I think the headlights on the Y suits the basic shape so much better than the headlights on the Mach-E, which to me looks really out of place. Almost like they have borrowed from another model like some low volume brand (I realise that that is not the case). I also not a fan of how much higher the nose looks. Lastly I think it is a seriously wasted opportunity to not clean up the cabin more when you are first going with the huge central screen anyway. My preferred solution would be to replace the gauge cluster with the central screen and a Hud display, which neither manages to do funnily enough.
      I actually disagree on most of your points. I think the Tesla's headlights make it look too narrow, I like the the Mach E's raised nose at it looks more SUV-ish, and I prefer a nice gauge cluster in front of the steering wheel.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

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    3. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      03-18-2020 12:52 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Burnette View Post
      I think they're both hideous but agree that the Mach E is at least distinctive.

      I'll give them both a pass on interiors, the tablet stuck on the dash seems to be a thing that EV peeps like, so it's all good
      I'm not a fan of the vertical tablet in the Mach-E, it ruins the lines of the dash. A horizontal mounting or mounting the screen lower vis-a-vis Model S would solve the problem. Same ugly issue w/the fancy screen in the new Explorer, just looks bad. For those reasons I'd give the Model Y the advantage.
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    4. 03-18-2020 04:34 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      I'm not a fan of the vertical tablet in the Mach-E, it ruins the lines of the dash. A horizontal mounting or mounting the screen lower vis-a-vis Model S would solve the problem. Same ugly issue w/the fancy screen in the new Explorer, just looks bad. For those reasons I'd give the Model Y the advantage.
      Agree but I gave them both a pass because people seem to be fine with the big screen/tacked on look. Truthfully buyers of both will probably care more about the function of each rather than the looks.

      I think they both look like azzes IMO but then again I'm not the target market.

    5. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      03-18-2020 05:04 PM #79
      I've given up complaining about the big tablets on dashes, this is clearly the way it's going to be now.

      What I like about the Mach-E is that they've also added other buttons and controls to the dash. There is way more visual interest, shapes, etc. It just appeals to me way more.

      What Tesla and Tesla's fans rave about the "simple clean lines" of the current T dashes, all I see is cheap, cheap, cheap and unimaginative, with the steering wheel being particularly cheap looking to my eye.

      It's all subjective, different strokes for different folks.

    6. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      03-18-2020 05:25 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      with the steering wheel being particularly cheap looking to my eye.
      I agree with you on the steering wheel. Other than the lack of a HUD display, that's my biggest gripe with the design of their interiors. I wished they offered something more stylish as an option.

    7. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      03-24-2020 06:17 PM #81
      Doug DeMuros take on it:


    8. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      03-24-2020 06:39 PM #82
      ^Can't believe I didn't see it before, Doug is right the 3rd row will be rear facing seats a-la Model S. It's within brand identity, it's the only way you'd have reasonable headroom, and the cutouts for the cargo area(s) match perfectly to a rear seat mount. For reference here's how they work in a Model S..




      ..this should prove a very practical vehicle. Also note the Model Y comes with a hitch cover plate. Assuming it comes with a robust tow package this could be a pretty damn practical car which I'm sure will be all over the Bay Area as soon as we can actually drive places again.
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

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      03-24-2020 06:44 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Woof---this has the proportions of a Micro Machine toy. Their sedans are so much better looking, and particularly, better proportioned.
      IDK, the Model 3's greenhouse looks swollen. I hated it when I first saw it, and I still hate it now.

    10. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      03-24-2020 08:32 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      ^Can't believe I didn't see it before, Doug is right the 3rd row will be rear facing seats a-la Model S. It's within brand identity, it's the only way you'd have reasonable headroom, and the cutouts for the cargo area(s) match perfectly to a rear seat mount. For reference here's how they work in a Model S..




      ..this should prove a very practical vehicle. Also note the Model Y comes with a hitch cover plate. Assuming it comes with a robust tow package this could be a pretty damn practical car which I'm sure will be all over the Bay Area as soon as we can actually drive places again.

      Leaked images show it to be front facing bench seat.


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      03-25-2020 01:14 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      Yes, that's correct, but what I was stating was that sales of EVs in those other states (most of them) doubled (as they sold twice as many as the year before), and not that they're double that of CA. That happened because of the Model 3's introduction, which made EVs much more palatable to many. The Model Y goes even a step further. The Mach E might be even more so as it's coming from an established brand with a known dealership network. The fact is that these EVs aren't niche vehicle like say a wagon version of any car would be (like the Volvo V60 or V90, or the Audi Allroad). These are popular form factor vehicles that are EV, and have range (we're assuming the Mach E will as per Ford's statement).

      They're part of a trend that's gaining more traction, and with fuel price volatility, and government mandates (unless they're all repealed), it's going to become more and more prevalent. Don't get me wrong, I think a ton needs to be done before there's proper infrastructure in place to support that, and handling that poorly could impact the rate as which EVs become more and more popular, but again, it's not a niche. Many people want this, in CA or otherwise, and sales will show that.
      That will be a good thing when Ford and others have some BEV's on the lot and people can take them for a spin. It seems many people are shocked when they try an electric car and that does not happen very much right now when the average person walks onto the lot of an average company (and obviously they can't walk onto a Tesla dealer lot). The Mach-E is the first average BEV CUV that should be very intriguing to check out for most folks.

      In terms of Teslas - I see them all around MI at this point, saw multiple car carriers rolling on I-80 with them the last two times i ran down to Cleveland. Yes i guess i am looking for them, but they are certainly more common than some of the specialty cars like Alfas around here, which is about as hostile as you can get to Teslas.

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      03-25-2020 01:15 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      I agree with you on the steering wheel. Other than the lack of a HUD display, that's my biggest gripe with the design of their interiors. I wished they offered something more stylish as an option.
      They have a nicer wheel in the X, wish that would at least be an option, and also, i like the cutout grill on the S, wish that was a thing on the 3/Y.

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      03-25-2020 02:25 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by smoothsix View Post
      That's not really true as written, but it's becoming true starting... right now. 7-8 years is about a long as most automakers run a design, so Tesla's right in line there, and they refreshed the S like most automakers do, so they're no different. But they're BECOMING different/slow because there's no S redesign on the horizon. They're a smaller automaker so it's not surprising, but the criticism is becoming fair, and will be more and more fair as the years tick by with no redesign
      That's valid criticism on the surface.

      At the same time, Tesla's updated the guts of the S far more than other manufacturers have refreshed the guts of their cars. I think existing manufacturers care too much about updating appearance and not enough about updating performance.

      Toyota for example would have sold a lot more Prius models had they kept the body mostly the same from the second gen on and did what Tesla did to the S in terms of performance/efficiency/range/etc improvements.

      I'd drive a gen II bland/smug-mobile all day long if it got 60+mpg combined, hit 60mph in <6s, had 700+ miles of range, and came with the functional equivalent of Tesla's base Autopilot for an extra $3k along with all the other minor updates Tesla has incorporated.

    14. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      03-25-2020 04:24 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye View Post
      That's valid criticism on the surface.

      At the same time, Tesla's updated the guts of the S far more than other manufacturers have refreshed the guts of their cars. I think existing manufacturers care too much about updating appearance and not enough about updating performance.

      Toyota for example would have sold a lot more Prius models had they kept the body mostly the same from the second gen on and did what Tesla did to the S in terms of performance/efficiency/range/etc improvements.

      I'd drive a gen II bland/smug-mobile all day long if it got 60+mpg combined, hit 60mph in <6s, had 700+ miles of range, and came with the functional equivalent of Tesla's base Autopilot for an extra $3k along with all the other minor updates Tesla has incorporated.
      If you were running Tesla, and you had to control your expenses, and try to eek out a profit wherever and however you can, all the while trying to raise money, would investing in a larger luxury sedan make any sense? A segment that's dying, and one in which the Model S did well because it was at the time the only viable EV with long range?

      No way. Instead, you'd divert your resources towards segment that are popular and will drive volume and profit, live CUVs. I think a cheaper to manufacture Model X (maybe without the Falcon doors) can be another option, especially if they leave the platform alone.

      Also, with the Model S, they're able to put in new motors and software, which they're able to amortize the costs of with the rest of the Tesla lineup, without having to spend money retooling an assembly line, nor having to retool the exterior and interior.

      So I don't see a business case where revising the Model S would be feasible. And if it's purely for marketing purposes, I think they have all the attention they need right now with the Model 3 and Y, let alone the concept Cybertruk.

    15. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      03-25-2020 04:51 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      So I don't see a business case where revising the Model S would be feasible. And if it's purely for marketing purposes, I think they have all the attention they need right now with the Model 3 and Y, let alone the concept Cybertruk.
      I agree with this assessment. The Model Y really does look like the perfect all-rounder in so many ways for Tesla. Although I personally wish they could have given it a bit more of a 2-box shape for added cargo room in the back, it's clear that just being a hatchback and taller add a ton more cargo room and functionality over the Model 3 with almost no cost increase over the Model 3. By keeping the kammback style instead of a more upright SUV/CUV look that seems to have preserved much of the range of the Model 3 in spite of the fact the Model Y must have higher drag due to being taller at a minimum. That all-rounder functionality of the Model Y to go with the 3 and the Truck give them a broad model range that can help them achieve economies of scale that simply wouldn't be possible if they remained focused on the luxury sedan target.

      I guess we'll have to wait a while longer for the Model Y to start shipping in volume due to the pandemic but some day when things are up and running again I believe the predictions that the Model Y will eventually outsell the 3. The company needs high volume production right now in order to grow to the next stage of the company. I think they can circle back somewhere along the way to do the low volume cars too but I think they're putting resources in the right places at the moment.

    16. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      03-26-2020 03:37 PM #90
      The paint is awful. Seriously WTF is wrong with their paint shop that they haven’t been able to figure out after 3 years of Model 3 production?

      https://insideevs.com/news/406312/te...-paint-issues/

    17. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      03-26-2020 04:29 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      The paint is awful. Seriously WTF is wrong with their paint shop that they haven’t been able to figure out after 3 years of Model 3 production?

      https://insideevs.com/news/406312/te...-paint-issues/
      I think the mentality Tesla has taken is the majority of owners won't notice or care. For those who do, the dealership can take care of it later which means the factory can continue pumping out high volumes.
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
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      03-27-2020 01:59 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      If you were running Tesla, and you had to control your expenses, and try to eek out a profit wherever and however you can, all the while trying to raise money, would investing in a larger luxury sedan make any sense? A segment that's dying, and one in which the Model S did well because it was at the time the only viable EV with long range?

      No way. Instead, you'd divert your resources towards segment that are popular and will drive volume and profit, live CUVs. I think a cheaper to manufacture Model X (maybe without the Falcon doors) can be another option, especially if they leave the platform alone.

      Also, with the Model S, they're able to put in new motors and software, which they're able to amortize the costs of with the rest of the Tesla lineup, without having to spend money retooling an assembly line, nor having to retool the exterior and interior.

      So I don't see a business case where revising the Model S would be feasible. And if it's purely for marketing purposes, I think they have all the attention they need right now with the Model 3 and Y, let alone the concept Cybertruk.
      I agree and suspect they'll follow the same path with the X, 3, and Y.

      Manufacturers dump too much money into changing the appearance of the cars and not enough into performance.

      Given how far ahead on the tech side Tesla is, I suspect spending more on updating performance and less on exterior refreshes will continue to be beneficial for them across their entire lineup.

    19. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      03-27-2020 02:21 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by lyeinyoureye View Post
      I agree and suspect they'll follow the same path with the X, 3, and Y.

      Manufacturers dump too much money into changing the appearance of the cars and not enough into performance.

      Given how far ahead on the tech side Tesla is, I suspect spending more on updating performance and less on exterior refreshes will continue to be beneficial for them across their entire lineup.
      It's definitely changing our collective perspective on what a "new" car or "new" model means.

    20. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      03-27-2020 03:30 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by vwpiloto View Post
      It's definitely changing our collective perspective on what a "new" car or "new" model means.
      It's not like most every other manufacturer does this in some way or another. It is actually more rare to have an entirely "new" car these days.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    21. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      03-27-2020 05:46 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      It's not like most every other manufacturer does this in some way or another. It is actually more rare to have an entirely "new" car these days.
      Exactly. my point is that for now, for most consumer (i.e. not the collective TCL), a new model means new sheetmetal and interior.

    22. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      03-28-2020 11:54 AM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
      The styling of the rear valence draws my eye to where the dual exhaust isn't.
      Speaking of rear design, check this out.

      The rear hatch extends down into the bumper, so even the slightest fender bender is likely going to need a hatch replacement too. Ooof.


    23. Member dwagner88's Avatar
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      03-28-2020 01:18 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Speaking of rear design, check this out.

      The rear hatch extends down into the bumper, so even the slightest fender bender is likely going to need a hatch replacement too. Ooof.

      Pretty much every modern CUV is built like this. Rav-4, CR-V, etc. Makes loading easier.
      Past: 1998 Accord V6 LX, 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 (KIA 2-24-11), 2009 Mazdaspeed 3 (KIA 9-19-11), 2003 Jetta GLS 2.slow (good riddance), 2010 VW GTI, 2011 Toyota Camry, 2006 NC Miata

    24. 03-28-2020 01:39 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      I think the mentality Tesla has taken is the majority of owners won't notice or care. For those who do, the dealership can take care of it later which means the factory can continue pumping out high volumes.
      Dealership? You mean service center? Or even independent paint/body shop? Wouldn't it be cheaper to just do it right the first time? Or does Tesla figure that most owners will overlook the problems just for the privilege of owning a Tesla? And those who still complain about issues will be shouted down in their online forums or marginalized as haters?

    25. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      03-28-2020 01:52 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by dwagner88 View Post
      Pretty much every modern CUV is built like this. Rav-4, CR-V, etc. Makes loading easier.
      I haven't tried it, but I'm pretty sure you can back into a bollard with this CR-V and not damage the hatch.


    26. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      03-28-2020 02:02 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Speaking of rear design, check this out.

      The rear hatch extends down into the bumper, so even the slightest fender bender is likely going to need a hatch replacement too. Ooof.

      Good catch. That sucks big time.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

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