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    1. Member TheDeckMan's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:02 AM #26
      Will have to watch later Dave, always love seeing fast cars without crazy aero throwing down some surprises!

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      02-26-2020 09:05 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Oh whatever Dave, yours is a fancy-pants Cayman S. Anyone can do that....pssshhh.
      Yes, exactly my point...itís the car! Your Cayman is much more of a driverís car... momentum and balance and braking over HP. Mine is a cheater with the modified engine. But still a cheaper-cheater than the cars that start with ďGTĒ.

    4. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:06 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Yeah, thanks. I wasn't aware of the Spec Miata record at Sonoma. That's cooking! Most Spec Miatas run 1:56 to 1:58 at Sonoma, in my experience. For example, here is a link to the NASA Spec Miata race last March at Sonoma. Typical best laps tend to be about 1:56. In June, they run more like 1:58 to 1:59 when it's hot.

      NASA scoring Timing Results Sonoma Raceway Spec Miata, Spec E30.

      That same day, I was running maybe 1:53 - 1:54 in my first NASA TT event with my Shelby. Meanwhile, my friend Tony Brakohiapa (professional driver, Senior Instructor for the Sonoma Race School, Formual Drift driver, Pike's peak, etc.) was doing 1:47 in his highly modified GT350R. I'd say his 6 seconds better than me that day was 1/3 car prep and 2/3 skill. So I figured I had 4 seconds of improvement. With him in the car instructing egging me on, I got my best time of 1:50.04 later in 2019 (video below), on a day that Tony drove my car to a best time 1:49.3. So I have gotten pretty dang close to him. He has since bested his time to 1:45 in his car so I figure I still have 2-3 seconds to get better, both in the Cayman and in the Shelby. So 1:51 is my target in the Cayman and to break 1:50 in that car, I think I'd need a seat, harness, wing, and splitter.

      NASA Time Trial results Sonoma Raceway

      For comparison, Racers in the Spec E46 and the Spec 911 classes that same day were typically between 1:52.5 and 1:55.

      And in case you think SCCA is any different than NASA, here is a Sonoma Spec Miata race where most cars run in the 2:00 range. Fastest time (hotter days) are around 1:57.

      SCCA Timing Scoring Sonoma Raceway

      My point is that the Cayman is a terrific car, not that I'm a good driver. I think I do OK, but that is mainly a function of tons of track time on 3 specific tracks. But the primary point of the story is that the Cayman 987, when driven properly, is a great track toy and with proper mods, can actually be a competitive amateur racer. Better than buying too much car that you're unwilling to unleash at the track!
      the car is .... a means to an end once you start racing. most cars are actually pretty ****ing good, just folks don't have the skill or experience to use them properly. turns out the engineers know better than internet heros, who knew? i always benchmark anyone track performance in anything to a spec miata lap record, as its a known quantity in terms of car and driver talent. the lap record at sonoma was set by ken southerland in his NA6 during 2018 runoffs qualifying, so its pretty on the nose.

      speaking of, whatcha racing? as i said, if PCA and spec boxster was a thing here, its a tempting class for sure. spec 944 gives me nightmares of 944 ownership.
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Sounds great. Maybe I'm just a fascist and didn't know it.. I don't know if I even care anymore.

    5. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:22 AM #29
      Good to hear that the 987 is a compelling package. I'm starting to give up on 911s and am starting to take a closer look at Caymans. I drove a 987 Boxster years ago and probably the most engaging vehicle I've ever driven. I like the styling of newer Caymans, but I'm afraid the company has sanitized the driving experience. I will have to spend some time in the various generations of these vehicles.

    6. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:23 AM #30
      I think Cayman's are fantastic cars and for sure the most affordable Porsche you can track and drive on the road.

      However, discussing rebuilding the motor and doing modifications on the engine for these to make them more track use capable, puts them way out of budget for me. At that point I'd still prefer something BMW, E30, E36, E46, all are much more budget friendly, have lots of aftermarket support and more donor parts availability (typically).

      Still, I enjoy seeing them built and wouldn't mind one in the future if my budget opened up.
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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      02-26-2020 09:26 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      speaking of, whatcha racing? as i said, if PCA and spec boxster was a thing here, its a tempting class for sure. spec 944 gives me nightmares of 944 ownership.
      Iím shooting for ST3. Iíll start the season in TT3 (Time Trials) with this car as is. I am having a roll cage designed so I can switch to ST3. But first I have to solve the last issue to make this car race-worthy. Itís the minor issue of a boiling over power steering pump. With the high G corners and the extra power of the modified engine and the underdrive pulley, the stock power steering has been overwhelmed. And this is before going Hoosiers (I run Nitto NT 01) if I were to race. This track day was a test of the new PS extra radiator/cooling system I just had added. But it still was an issue: power steering fluid boiling over out the overflow tube onto the manifold. Each session I get a little smoke and I pop the rear engine cover and have to add an ounce or so of fluid. PITA. The problem is that it has a tiny reservoir with only a few ounces of fluid, so even though it is flowing through the cooler, I think there just isnít enough volume to dissipate the heat. Itís not a problem for the street, even under spirited driving. So now my next upgrade is to increase the size of the reservoir by adding an external tank. If that doesnít work, Iím considering selling the Cayman and switching to an NP01 prototype car to race in the NP01 series trying to be revitalized by the new owner of the car/series, Sebeco.

      For as much as I praise the Cayman, it was never engineered for heavy track use like Porscheís GT cars are. the prior owner and I have modified it quite a bit to make it as good as it is, but it will always have a disadvantage to a GT3 or GT4.

      Sorry for the long reply.
      Last edited by Dave_Car_Guy; 02-26-2020 at 09:30 AM.

    8. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:36 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Iím shooting for ST3. Iíll start the season in TT3 (Time Trials) with this car as is. I am having a roll cage designed so I can switch to ST3. But first I have to solve the last issue to make this car race-worthy. Itís the minor issue of a boiling over power steering pump. With the high G corners and the extra power of the modified engine and the underdrive pulley, the stock power steering has been overwhelmed. And this is before going Hoosiers (I run Nitto NT 01) if I were to race. This track day was a test of the new PS extra radiator/cooling system I just had added. But it still was an issue: power steering fluid boiling over out the overflow tube onto the manifold. Each session I get a little smoke and I pop the rear engine cover and have to add an ounce or so of fluid. PITA. The problem is that it has a tiny reservoir with only a few ounces of fluid, so even though it is flowing through the cooler, I think there just isnít enough volume to dissipate the heat. Itís not a problem for the street, even under spirited driving. So now my next upgrade is to increase the size of the reservoir by adding an external tank. If that doesnít work, Iím considering selling the Cayman and switching to an NP01 prototype car to race in the NP01 series trying to be revitalized by the new owner of the car/series, Sebeco.

      For as much as I praise the Cayman, it was never engineered for heavy track use like Porscheís GT cars are. the prior owner and I have modified it quite a bit to make it as good as it is, but it will always have a disadvantage to a GT3 or GT4.

      Sorry for the long reply.
      ST classes as they get higher up are certainly more and more a builders class. if you have texa$ dollars, it might be fun to do a builders class, but id steer clear. spec classes are way better for racing. NP01 would be fun, doesn't NASA also have a class for spec racer fords? SRFs are good fun, and are just as close racing as the spec miatas.
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Sounds great. Maybe I'm just a fascist and didn't know it.. I don't know if I even care anymore.

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      02-26-2020 09:36 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      At that point I'd still prefer something BMW, E30, E36, E46, all are much more budget friendly.
      I agree completely. If I were starting from scratch right now, Iíd be had pressed not to choose an E46. Iíve just had this Cayman for so long, itís part of me now. 9 years or so of ownership. But at todayís values, an E46 2-door coupe in a Laguna Seca Blue would be hard to pass up, just as much as a 987.2 Cayman.

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      02-26-2020 09:53 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      ST classes as they get higher up are certainly more and more a builders class. if you have texa$ dollars, it might be fun to do a builders class, but id steer clear. spec classes are way better for racing. NP01 would be fun, doesn't NASA also have a class for spec racer fords? SRFs are good fun, and are just as close racing as the spec miatas.
      Truth and wisdom, for sure! I ran TT2 last year against guys who were in both ST2 and TT2 and they get very serious about things. So much aero and lightness and minor expensive suspension mods. I couldnít compete in my stock Shelby. Which is why I thought Iíd try TT3 and ST3, although the same problem exists. The NP01 has great operating costs. The SRF is a cool car, but I donít want on open cockpit. I raced Skip Barber formula cars in their western series back in the mid 2000s and didnít love being open. I like some more structure around me. Not sure why. For $60k buy-in, the NP01 has a rock solid Mazda engine and cheap consumables, designed to last long on track.

      My friend Tony just bought one in Patron Livery.




    11. Member TheDeckMan's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 09:55 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Iím shooting for ST3. Iíll start the season in TT3 (Time Trials) with this car as is. I am having a roll cage designed so I can switch to ST3. But first I have to solve the last issue to make this car race-worthy. Itís the minor issue of a boiling over power steering pump. With the high G corners and the extra power of the modified engine and the underdrive pulley, the stock power steering has been overwhelmed. And this is before going Hoosiers (I run Nitto NT 01) if I were to race. This track day was a test of the new PS extra radiator/cooling system I just had added. But it still was an issue: power steering fluid boiling over out the overflow tube onto the manifold. Each session I get a little smoke and I pop the rear engine cover and have to add an ounce or so of fluid. PITA. The problem is that it has a tiny reservoir with only a few ounces of fluid, so even though it is flowing through the cooler, I think there just isnít enough volume to dissipate the heat. Itís not a problem for the street, even under spirited driving. So now my next upgrade is to increase the size of the reservoir by adding an external tank. If that doesnít work, Iím considering selling the Cayman and switching to an NP01 prototype car to race in the NP01 series trying to be revitalized by the new owner of the car/series, Sebeco.

      For as much as I praise the Cayman, it was never engineered for heavy track use like Porscheís GT cars are. the prior owner and I have modified it quite a bit to make it as good as it is, but it will always have a disadvantage to a GT3 or GT4.

      Sorry for the long reply.

      Dave, you could look into an electric power steering setup like the cups run. I am working on a setup for the 996tt to shift weight towards the front and reduce overall weight of the setup/simplify the car.

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      02-26-2020 10:05 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDeckMan View Post
      Dave, you could look into an electric power steering setup like the cups run. I am working on a setup for the 996tt to shift weight towards the front and reduce overall weight of the setup/simplify the car.
      That was my initial thought, but I was told my the guys who build Cayman Interseries cars that it would be overkill. They swear by the extra cooling system. But youíre right, and although it isnít a cheap upgrade, it would clearly solve the issue by taking away the whole pulley/belt system.

      Interesting 996tt project!

    13. Member cockerpunk's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 10:06 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      Truth and wisdom, for sure! I ran TT2 last year against guys who were in both ST2 and TT2 and they get very serious about things. So much aero and lightness and minor expensive suspension mods. I couldnít compete in my stock Shelby. Which is why I thought Iíd try TT3 and ST3, although the same problem exists. The NP01 has great operating costs. The SRF is a cool car, but I donít want on open cockpit. I raced Skip Barber formula cars in their western series back in the mid 2000s and didnít love being open. I like some more structure around me. Not sure why. For $60k buy-in, the NP01 has a rock solid Mazda engine and cheap consumables, designed to last long on track.

      My friend Tony just bought one in Patron Livery.



      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Sounds great. Maybe I'm just a fascist and didn't know it.. I don't know if I even care anymore.

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      02-26-2020 10:15 AM #38
      NP01 is awesome. Skip the modified street car racing and go directly to purpose-built stuff.

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      02-26-2020 10:31 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      NP01 is awesome. Skip the modified street car racing and go directly to purpose-built stuff.
      Thatís exactly what my lovely wife said yesterday when I said I needed to make another modification to the Cayman.

    16. Member TheDeckMan's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 10:55 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      That was my initial thought, but I was told my the guys who build Cayman Interseries cars that it would be overkill. They swear by the extra cooling system. But youíre right, and although it isnít a cheap upgrade, it would clearly solve the issue by taking away the whole pulley/belt system.

      Interesting 996tt project!
      Thanks! Yeah the 996tt project has turned even more wild, the car currently is a monster, less weight and more power should prove to make it an entertaining track car. Most likely will be held up by slower cup cars with its sub 5lbs/hp. The Audi TT is a great match for heavily modified Caymans with about the same weight/power, the 300ft/lbs of awtq makes for lots of fun out of tight corners at LRP. The Caymans always pull on the straights with much better aerodynamics than the barn door of a TT.

      I ended up finding that the Volvo pumps are pretty much the same as the cup pumps, so going to use that. Think I paid $100 for it, just have to make up a mount, harness and lines. There is overkill and then there is overkill I would imagine you could have your shop do a setup for $500-1000 or so. Always spoiled when doing my own work so have no perception of what it costs beyond parts.

      I think Deman motorsport was selling a full cup powersteering setup over on rennlist for a solid price.

    17. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      02-26-2020 12:02 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Dave_Car_Guy View Post
      I agree completely. If I were starting from scratch right now, Iíd be had pressed not to choose an E46. Iíve just had this Cayman for so long, itís part of me now. 9 years or so of ownership. But at todayís values, an E46 2-door coupe in a Laguna Seca Blue would be hard to pass up, just as much as a 987.2 Cayman.


      Yeah an E46 M3 can be built to be quite a beast. Easily swallows up alot of tire under factory body work. Once the subframe issues and S54 stuff are addressed, man they can be an awesome car for track (so I hear). And at the values that E9X are at, not a bad option either.
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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    18. 02-27-2020 01:52 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post


      Yeah an E46 M3 can be built to be quite a beast. Easily swallows up alot of tire under factory body work. Once the subframe issues and S54 stuff are addressed, man they can be an awesome car for track (so I hear). And at the values that E9X are at, not a bad option either.
      E9x M3s are way too heavy- you're starting at around 3800 lbs. Eats too much tire and brake to be reasonable for a track car. I don't know how much you can lighten the car, but you're only going to get a couple hundred pounds out of it unless you strip the interior.

    19. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      02-27-2020 03:34 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by t44tq View Post
      E9x M3s are way too heavy- you're starting at around 3800 lbs. Eats too much tire and brake to be reasonable for a track car. I don't know how much you can lighten the car, but you're only going to get a couple hundred pounds out of it unless you strip the interior.
      Very much this. There are far better places to start if you're looking to transform a street car into a race car. The S65 moto otoh, that might be fun to shoehorn into something lighter.

      For M3s, I'd look at an E36, which can be made to be under 3,000 lbs. Even the E46 is heavy as a starting point.

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      03-04-2020 09:22 PM #44
      This is not a track review. I previously thought about starting a "10k miles with a Cayman" thread, but that rolled by, and now I'm at 2 years and 20,000 miles with my 2007 Cayman S. The car's about to tick over 40k miles. Dave may or may not have been a part of that decision matrix. It's been my daily for the last 2 years, and it's been a fantastic experience save for a few flat tires, replacing a headliner, and a carbon clean out.

      Up until the C8 came out, the Cayman was the most reasonable gateway to midengine sports cars. I'm excluding the MR2/Fiero for their lack of serious speed and the Elise/Exige for availability. It's basically the closest you can feel to driving an exotic at the $30k price point, while still being reasonably practical and affordable to run. And though the 987.2 and 981 definitely have their advantages, the price delta is pretty huge. The M97 might not be quite as good as the 9A1, but 300 hp w/ a 7000 rpm redline is plenty for enthusiastic street driving.

      +
      The engine - Can't argue against the sound from behind you. With the engine cover off, you get all the whooshes of the intake. The throttle response is crisp, and power builds in a nicely progressive way.
      Steering/handling - Turn in and steering feel are great. The car shifts its weight so well.
      Driving position and cockpit - not at all cramped or claustrophobic. The visibility is great. The cabin is well made and perfectly functional.
      Storage - For a single dude, the frunk/trunk are plenty for grocery runs and weekend getaways
      Sense of occasion - South Texas has almost no non-American sports cars. The car never fails to feel unique/special despite it being so practical/affordable.

      -
      Lacking equipment - It really should've come with an LSD and the center radiator. They're available, but pricey add ons.
      Fuel economy - I drive about 6 miles to work each way. The car is barely warmed up by then. Gets about 20 mpg in short range commuting.
      Other people - The corollary of the sense of occasion. In the land of $80k pickups, everyone seems to like cutting off or having something negative to say about a 12 year old, entry level Porsche.

      Either way, no regrets. The car took me up and down the West Coast and cross country. It still makes me happy to slide into the seat after a long day of work.

      Last edited by XiaoNio; 03-04-2020 at 09:29 PM.

    21. 03-04-2020 09:37 PM #45
      well... I've been trying to convince the wife a Cayman would work... but

      "I saw a 911 carerra S with two child seats in the back, today!" was her text today... so uh... looks like i can't convince her on a cayman.

    22. Member kiznarsh's Avatar
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      03-04-2020 10:22 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by XiaoNio View Post
      Another great mod, but only if you dress up the top like you did here.

      It's not the prettiest engine but seeing it is still pretty cool. I'm assuming with your relatively low miles, you're not suffering from any visible oil seepage?

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      03-04-2020 11:25 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by kiznarsh View Post
      Another great mod, but only if you dress up the top like you did here.

      It's not the prettiest engine but seeing it is still pretty cool. I'm assuming with your relatively low miles, you're not suffering from any visible oil seepage?
      I may or may not have bought an IPD plenum this week, just because of how it makes the engine bay looks. No seepage thus far. I did a lot of reading and a few preventative things like changing the water pump and AOS, and doing some of the LN engineering recommended mods. Ultimately, I think a lot of the M97 concerns are a little overwrought. It's a bit sturdier than the M96, and most of the kinks are fairly well understood. I'm probably going to be proven wrong, but fingers crossed, it's been relatively solid so far.

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      03-05-2020 02:43 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Nourdmrolnmt View Post
      well... I've been trying to convince the wife a Cayman would work... but

      "I saw a 911 carerra S with two child seats in the back, today!" was her text today... so uh... looks like i can't convince her on a cayman.

      Ok but this is still an excellent level of winning. Wife texting you excitedly about a sports car at all!

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