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    1. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 10:57 AM #1
      Posted on Jalopnik, a 400,000 mile Model X from the desert taxi service, Tesloop was recently listed for $32,000 and had used about $29,000 in parts during 40 months of use. Excessive? Reasonable?


      https://jalopnik.com/this-tesla-mode...ere-1841761190








      Tommietanks Take:

      Maintaining car business vehicles where public passengers are used is a different animal than old Joey from South Florida taking his crown vic to 400,000. All in, I think this was kinda cheap for a fast luxury SUV hauling 6-7 people over 400,000 miles. And it seems like most costs were after 200,000 miles. What's nuts is that it was listed for $32,000. I'd want to see $12k.

      Edit: ok there's one BS replacement. The MCU. That should not go bad in 40 months of use and wish Tesla would engineer something better for such an important interface.
      Last edited by Tommietank; 02-24-2020 at 11:17 AM.
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    3. Banned EverthingIsTerrible's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 10:58 AM #2
      5 grand for two captains chairs. What a world

    4. Member JOHNS92JETTA's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:10 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by EverthingIsTerrible View Post
      5 grand for two captains chairs. What a world
      Sounds cheap to be honest. Some power seat bases alone are over $1k.
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    5. Member Jimmy Russells's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:14 AM #4
      $9950 of that was tires, towing because of tires, and a couple alignments.

      Also another $600 or so for key fobs.

    6. Member
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      02-24-2020 11:17 AM #5
      Seems reasonable all round. If I kept my 2012 accord to those standards, I would have a bunch of new from dealer trim, buttons, headlights, timing belt, etc. Call that $3k.

      Looks like that car is doing about 1000 miles a day, and a big part of that total is tires. I'm surprised how cheap the tires are, $250 each, but probably prioritizing longevity and price over comfort and noise.

      My car also needs a paint job, and would certainly need new seats and carpet if used as a taxi. Aftermarket seats are $1k, assume oem at least double. Carpet in the escape was 700 oem installed, so assume similar.

      No oil to change, so that probably contributed to higher up time, but an ICE would be another $50 every 3-5 days. Double both those numbers for amsoil or whatever.

      On the selling price, we always say we pay extra for maintenance records, and that's about as complete as it gets. I assume charge data is available through tesla app or something, so better than gas receipts.

      I say it all checks out.

    7. Member Rav_VW's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:25 AM #6
      The original brakes lasted 388k miles? That is impressive, even for highway miles.

      The one biggie I noticed in the article is that they got a new battery pack for free for 317k, even though it was outside of the official warranty, as they claimed it was a defect and won. Most people probably wouldn't get that, but this car was kind of high visibility.

    8. Member drivrswntd's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:25 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Russells View Post
      $9950 of that was tires, towing because of tires, and a couple alignments.

      Also another $600 or so for key fobs.
      Was noticing the tires were a rather significant number and feel throwing those in is rather click bait for the article to make the $$$ bigger. Any vehicle after 400k miles will have maintenance done on it including tires, brakes.
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    9. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:30 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by drivrswntd View Post
      rather click bait for the article
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    10. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:34 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by EverthingIsTerrible View Post
      5 grand for two captains chairs. What a world
      Agreed but keep in mind this was at mileage 235K on a car whose captains chairs were used/adjusted/tilted forward for rear seat entry/etc. multiple times a day, every day of the week. Same goes for the other interior bits that broke. Another example would be the A/C system breaking. As the owner admitted, the A/C system wasn't designed to run 24/7 and one thing he didn't mention was the fact that the cars were doing shuttle runs from LA to Las Vegas i.e. the searing hot Mojave desert. Actually, considering the car was typically running fully loaded with passengers through the searing desert, that might explain the battery failing as well.

      Just because a car is EV doesn't mean it's immune to things breaking, however you should expect overall maintenance items to be reduced. IMO considering the Tesla was doing livery service through LA traffic and the Mojave desert, I'd say it did pretty well.
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    11. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:37 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Rav_VW View Post
      The original brakes lasted 388k miles? That is impressive, even for highway miles.

      The one biggie I noticed in the article is that they got a new battery pack for free for 317k, even though it was outside of the official warranty, as they claimed it was a defect and won. Most people probably wouldn't get that, but this car was kind of high visibility.
      Also replaced rear drive unit. That's not cheap either.

      All in all, I wouldn't brag about this, but it's not completely terrible either.

    12. Member G0to60's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:38 AM #11
      Not too bad in my opinion.

      I think Tesla should buy this and have their engineers take it apart as a real world test vehicle. They could probably learn a bit I would imagine.

    13. I’m not a loser. I’m a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:39 AM #12
      Consumables should not be counted without a large grain of salt. Expensive tires are still tires that are consumable.
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    14. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:47 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      Also replaced rear drive unit. That's not cheap either.

      All in all, I wouldn't brag about this, but it's not completely terrible either.
      I wonder how much it would cost to run a X5M or X7 for the same amount of miles in the same conditions.
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    15. Member adrew's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 11:54 AM #14
      It would be interesting to see the total cost of ownership comparison between this and something like a Highlander hybrid, including the respective electricity and gas usage.
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    16. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 12:03 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      I wonder how much it would cost to run a X5M or X7 for the same amount of miles in the same conditions.
      Don't ask a Tesla owner - they'll count fuel as "service and maintenance."

    17. Member adrew's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 12:14 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Don't ask a Tesla owner - they'll count fuel as "service and maintenance."
      The long-range version of the Model 3 has a 75 kWh battery pack with a 310 mile range. If we still assume the average national electric pricing of 13 cents per kWh and a charging efficiency of 85%, then a full charge will cost $11.47. This is $3.70 per 100 miles of mixed city and freeway driving, or 3.7 cents per mile.
      Cite: https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/ho...ctric-vehicles

      So 400,000 miles x 3.7¢ = $14,800 for electricity

      The Highlander hybrid has a 35 MPG highway rating so let's say 30 MPG mixed to account for idling/etc.

      400,000 miles ÷ 30 MPG = 13,333 gallons x $2.50/gallon = $33,333 for gas


      It would be interesting to see how close they ended up, with the Highlander's $150/each OEM Bridgestones and oil changes every 10k miles but probably no A/C or drivetrain component replacements. I can see not having to do an oil change every two weeks being a huge benefit of keeping the thing in service/out of the shop, though.
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    18. Member
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      02-24-2020 02:27 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Don't ask a Tesla owner - they'll count fuel as "service and maintenance."
      That’s why it’s called Total Cost of Ownership.

      All in I’m sure this Tesla would be much cheaper than a German V8 luxury SUV. Just the fuel would save close to $70,000 over the same 400k miles.

      Obviously this is an extreme example, but over long term the ev ownership experience is way lower than gas powered cars. Obviously there are trade offs with range anxiety and charging availability, but overall from a dollars and sense perspective they’re way ahead.

    19. Member Jimmy Russells's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:30 PM #18
      How do the logistics of this work? Car drives to LA, fast charges, drives back to LV, charges overnight, etc etc for 400k. Wow

    20. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:33 PM #19
      For a high use commercial vehicle? I mean on the face of it that's expensive, but looking at all the items, I get it. Tesla produces their own seats in-house so I kind of get why they charge a fortune for them. Things like that will improve over time. I think this is reasonable. As others have pointed out, the gas savings alone may have covered much of the maintenance costs of the vehicle.

    21. Member Pnuu's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:33 PM #20
      It looks like a solid chunk of the parts were cosmetic damage or wear and tear from being used as a Taxi. Yeah, the parts were expensive. But 400k miles of revenue-generating use is worth quite a bit of money.

      I would be curious how an equivalently specced German or Japanese SUV would have fared in the same service for TCO. I doubt either one would last 400k miles of Taxi service.

    22. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:40 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Russells View Post
      How do the logistics of this work? Car drives to LA, fast charges, drives back to LV, charges overnight, etc etc for 400k. Wow
      Essentially this yes. They took advantage of the free supercharging the cars came with and "abused" the battery as you shouldn't exclusively supercharge each time. But they did. Amazing case study on an extreme use. Their blog is great detailing progress along the way.

      https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/8/...s-in-two-years

      Supercharging/Energy Cost: The Model X has been Supercharged about 4 times a day for the last 2 years. This amounts to approximately 120,000 kilowatts. According to Tesla’s Supercharging support page, California’s price per kilowatt-hour is $0.26 per kWh.
      It's interesting to compare against a Highlander Hybrid as our local cab company, Green Cab, exclusively uses Toyota hybrids in their fleet. All have about 300,000 miles and are still smooth as butter. Interiors are worn but whatev. But the real comparison is against another luxury high performance 6-7 seater. The numbers wouldn't even come close. Fuel alone would have cost double the maintenance cost. Have we ever even seen an X5 even get to 250,000 miles? MB R-Class?
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    23. Member dr_spock's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:41 PM #22
      Not bad for a cost of doing business expense.

    24. Member Jimmy Russells's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:44 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Essentially this yes. They took advantage of the free supercharging the cars came with and "abused" the battery as you shouldn't exclusively supercharge each time. But they did. Amazing case study on an extreme use. Their blog is great detailing progress along the way.

      https://www.tesloop.com/blog/2018/8/...s-in-two-years



      It's interesting to compare against a Highlander Hybrid as our local cab company, Green Cab, exclusively uses Toyota hybrids in their fleet. All have about 300,000 miles and are still smooth as butter. Interiors are worn but whatev. But the real comparison is against another luxury high performance 6-7 seater. The numbers wouldn't even come close. Fuel alone would have cost double the maintenance cost. Have we ever even seen an X5 even get to 250,000 miles? MB R-Class?

      Just pounding highway miles the Germans would have no problem getting there. Of course they would need fuel, and oil changes every two weeks. Expensive tires too. I imagine they would start needing sensors and solenoids and things like that all around the engine too but the engine/trans itself I wouldn't expect any issues. Maybe timing chain and/or guides.

    25. Senior Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:49 PM #24
      The link claims $0.06/mile drive costs... does that mean the 'charge-ups' cost $24,000 for the life of that 400K vehicle?

      Assuming that's accurate and $3 p/gallon gas: 20 MPG vehicle would have cost $60,000 - 25 MPG vehicle would be $48,000. (napkin math)

    26. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      02-24-2020 02:50 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Russells View Post
      Just pounding highway miles the Germans would have no problem getting there. Of course they would need fuel, and oil changes every two weeks. Expensive tires too. I imagine they would start needing sensors and solenoids and things like that all around the engine too but the engine/trans itself I wouldn't expect any issues. Maybe timing chain and/or guides.
      That's a tall tale my friend. Kinda ridiculous actually. You are telling me BMW's famous TT V8s can touch 400k miles with few problems? We on the same planet?

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