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    1. Member Senior Member's Avatar
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      02-10-2020 06:25 PM #1
      I'm not sure if it's a repost!

      https://www.yahoo.com/autos/electric...143000648.html

      The manual transmission's long, harrowing demise continued in 2019. For the first time, the number of electric cars sold new in America was higher than the number of vehicles delivered with three pedals and a clutch disc.

      1.1% of Americans who bought a new car last year selected (or settled for) a manual transmission, which is nearly a rounding error considering annual sales totaled approximately 17.1 million units. In comparison, Green Car Reports wrote electric vehicles held a 1.6% share of the market, which is also negligible in the grand scheme of things. The manual transmission's market share dropped by 0.5% from 2018 to 2019, while EVs rose by 0.1%.

      This trend is hardly surprising; the number of cars available with a manual transmission continues to drop, and the electric vehicle segment is growing steadily. Subaru notably announced the Impreza Sport will exclusively be available with a continuously variable transmission (CVT) for the 2020 model year, while Hyundai's Elantra and Veloster Turbo are going automatic-only. The born-again Toyota Supra never offered a stick to begin with.

      Meanwhile, automakers are setting aside a huge amount of money to develop and launch electric cars, trucks, and SUVs. It's reasonable to assume that, in the early 2020s, the manual transmission will dip under the 1% mark and the electric powertrain will continue to inch towards the mainstream. Every electric car sold new or being developed in 2020 has two pedals, so hoping battery technology will save the stick is dumbly optimistic.

      And yet, Ford unexpectedly proved motorists who want to pivot away from gasoline don't necessarily need to give up changing their own gears. It joined forces with Webasto to build a stick-shifted electric Mustang with over 900 horsepower and 1,000 pound-feet of torque. While it's technically possible to make an electric car with a six-speed stick, the determining question is whether consumer demand is high enough to warrant developing one.

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    3. Member EverthingIsTerrible's Avatar
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      02-10-2020 06:32 PM #2
      lol WATT?!

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      02-10-2020 09:17 PM #3
      I feel like this is a reflection of how people want driving to be, vs how it actually is for many people. Manuals require commitment that just doesn't yield much payback for most people. Even many enthusiasts If you can check off all the prerequisites (i.e. charge at home and don't drive far often if at all), EVs are just easier all around, which is driving "fun" for many in the context of ****tier traffic, roads and other drivers.

      Plus used cars are increasingly robust, and compared to new cars, often much more interesting. It's a regulatory death spiral.

    5. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      02-10-2020 11:03 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Manuals require commitment that just doesn't yield much payback for most people.
      They're also increasingly scarce, and require massive compromises in terms of trim, power, engine options and techy bits.

      Which is why I probably won't be buying a manual when I next buy a new car, because they'll just take too many compromises on other things I want for a transmission.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    6. 02-11-2020 12:04 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      They're also increasingly scarce, and require massive compromises in terms of trim, power, engine options and techy bits.

      .

      Considering that the mfrs aren't producing manual units for the USA that is no surprise at all. Consumers can't purchase what
      manufacturers won't produce and offer for sale.


      Then again unless the gov't forces consumers to buy electric vehicles they will never become a large volume product for many decades to come.
      It's clear from the market that consumers do not want these types of vehicles and are not buying them.

    7. Member
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      02-11-2020 01:50 AM #6
      I'm sort of on both sides of the field on this. In regards to electric vehicles, and as a DD, sign me up for the new EV F150 or Rivian...i'm all in. I want the space, the hauling capacity, all of it, plus I put in about 25K miles a year in my current truck. But with my fun car, my NC3 'manua'l Miata is my happy place. I went out to lunch in it today and came home and told my wife that I really really enjoyed driving the Miata today...for some reason it felt extra special. There's just something about rowing gears in a small car. So yeah, i'll take both.
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    8. Senior Member Wimbledon's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 02:02 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by focusgroup1
      Then again unless the gov't forces consumers to buy electric vehicles they will never become a large volume product for many decades to come.
      It's clear from the market that consumers do not want these types of vehicles and are not buying them.
      It’s worth noting that the Model 3 has been among the top 3 selling car models in California for more than a year now. Will the rest of the country, or notwithstanding the US, the world, follow that trend?

      My experience talking with non-car-people about EVs is that most people have not even thought about one. It’s not that they rejected the class of EVs — when they shopped for a car, they didn’t look up anything about EVs. It’s not surprising when many people (most?) don’t think consciously about reducing their environmental impact, or ignore easy ways to begin making a difference, it’s just not a concern. An EV is not on the radar for people, unless you live in a place like California where there is more of a critical mass that encourages people to take a look at an EV.

      I think as EVs continue to improve on range, recharge time, and price, more typical consumers are going to pay attention and we’ll see more widespread adoption. It’s too early to say that consumers have rejected the concept.
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      02-11-2020 03:07 AM #8
      I guess it kinda depends on what part of the country you live. California is a special kind of special, and people on a few other car forums I go to are either all about EV, or all about the latest Ferrari, Lambo, etc... or a little of both. You gotta keep up with the Jones's out there apparently so...whatever. I just think when an EV truck or SUV becomes practical and affordable to the middle class they will catch on, otherwise the Chevy Volt or whatever it's called is the middle class standard. Give me a $60K electric full size loaded up truck and i'm all in.
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    10. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 08:51 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      They're also increasingly scarce, and require massive compromises in terms of trim, power, engine options and techy bits.
      Of course. Almost as if MFRs try to punish you for trying to buy a manual-remember the ancient 5 speed on the sportwagen (S only, of course) when the 6 speed was around for years?
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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      Gear Patrol, which has as much cred as Paw Patrol
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      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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    11. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 10:58 AM #10
      I would buy more manual if more cars are sold with manual. As is, I have to compromise and get something not manual if I want a wagon. So much sad with no hope.

      I mean we live in an age where BMW doesn't even sell manual 3 series anymore. We should all just throw in the towel.

    12. Member
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      02-11-2020 11:26 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      They're also increasingly scarce, and require massive compromises in terms of trim, power, engine options and techy bits.

      Which is why I probably won't be buying a manual when I next buy a new car, because they'll just take too many compromises on other things I want for a transmission.
      To be fair, plenty of auto makers made manuals the right way- the G37, TL SH-AWD, F30 335/340i and some older mainstreamers (Maxima, Mazda 6, Golf/GSW? Can you get a current regular Jetta with a stick?) put 3 pedals in top trim cars and they still couldn't justify bringing them back

      To a degree manufacturers and dealers are to blame, only in that they generally don't make custom orders in the US very easy. But at the end of the day the majority of the blame lies at the feet of car buyers. Stickshift cars aren't available because we don't buy enough to justify offering.

    13. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 11:41 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      To be fair, plenty of auto makers made manuals the right way- the G37, TL SH-AWD, F30 335/340i and some older mainstreamers (Maxima, Mazda 6, Golf/GSW? Can you get a current regular Jetta with a stick?) put 3 pedals in top trim cars and they still couldn't justify bringing them back

      To a degree manufacturers and dealers are to blame, only in that they generally don't make custom orders in the US very easy. But at the end of the day the majority of the blame lies at the feet of car buyers. Stickshift cars aren't available because we don't buy enough to justify offering.
      Bingo. People here love to blame OEM’s and dealers for the decline in manuals. Nope. It’s buyers. There simply isn’t enough demand. If people bought them new in good numbers, OEM’s would sell more of them. Corvette owners wrote the manuals obituary with the C7; around 10% of the final production years were sticks. That’s not Chevys fault.
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    14. Member
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      02-11-2020 12:02 PM #13
      Tesla EV = latest iPhone, ICE + manual transmission = rotatory landline phone.
      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

    15. Member DerSpiegel's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:09 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by forewheel View Post
      Give me a $60K electric full size loaded up truck and i'm all in.
      What kind of charge time would you accept? Genuinely curious. Currently a Model S can be juiced up at a Tesla Charging station up to 80% in @ 25mins. Figure larger battery capacity for a truck and let's say 40 mins. That is if you are near a Tesla charging station.

      Otherwise, it would be 3+ hours on 220V, which is more common but still not at every intersection in rural Kansas. Not sure how well electric trucks would sell anywhere but infrastructured urban areas. Just my $.02.

    16. 02-11-2020 12:14 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      Tesla EV = latest iPhone, ICE + manual transmission = rotatory landline phone.
      It's all fun and games until you need to make an emergency call and your phone's apex seals are blown.
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    17. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:19 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Bingo. People here love to blame OEM’s and dealers for the decline in manuals. Nope. It’s buyers. There simply isn’t enough demand. If people bought them new in good numbers, OEM’s would sell more of them. Corvette owners wrote the manuals obituary with the C7; around 10% of the final production years were sticks. That’s not Chevys fault.
      Thank you. It's going to be a 100 page thread about people whining when it's the people on this forum that are to blame. Stop buying 20 year old used cars for pennies and instead put your money where you mouth is and buy them when you had a chance. No one bought them so mfg stopped selling them. It's supply and demand. Why make cars no one wants to buy?

    18. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:29 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Thank you. It's going to be a 100 page thread about people whining when it's the people on this forum that are to blame. Stop buying 20 year old used cars for pennies and instead put your money where you mouth is and buy them when you had a chance. No one bought them so mfg stopped selling them. It's supply and demand. Why make cars no one wants to buy?
      We're past the point of no return now regardless.

      As much as I like the idea of an EV, I do want to buy one New manual car before they're all gone. But that single sale will be a drop of water in an ocean.

    19. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:42 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      We're past the point of no return now regardless.

      As much as I like the idea of an EV, I do want to buy one New manual car before they're all gone. But that single sale will be a drop of water in an ocean.
      You still can and most mfg still make the right cars with manuals. Miata, 911, boxster, cayman, brz, etc. Which is all that matters. Do I care that a X3, CX-5 or 5 series or any other sedan comes with no manual? Absolutely not. I wouldn't buy one of those with it anyways. But if I was picking a true drivers car then I definitely would get a manual.

    20. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:50 PM #19
      I had a Lyft show up in a Kia Forte manual the other day. Penalty boxes have come so far from my old Geo Metro manual.

    21. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      02-11-2020 12:58 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      You still can and most mfg still make the right cars with manuals. Miata, 911, boxster, cayman, brz, etc. Which is all that matters. Do I care that a X3, CX-5 or 5 series or any other sedan comes with no manual? Absolutely not. I wouldn't buy one of those with it anyways. But if I was picking a true drivers car then I definitely would get a manual.
      The two-doors do seem okay on take-rate for a few more years to come, but that doesn't do me any good if my car still needs a backseat and extra doors. I'm not at the stage of my life to buy a coupe right now, and if I did it'd probably be Used. If I'm spending New money, it'd be on something I drove daily, with all the practicality requirements thereof.

      Aside from some cheap cars still offering it to keep the sticker price down (e.g. Honda Fit, Hyundai Venue, Nissan Kicks), we're down to a very small list of enthusiast-oriented manual 4 doors:
      Genesis (G70 2.0t)
      Honda (Civic Si, Type R, Accord Sport)
      Hyundai (Elantra Sport, Elantra GT N Line)
      Subaru (WRX/STI)
      VW (GLI/GTI)

      I'm happy to give one of them my business while they offer it, because it's only going to keep getting smaller.

    22. Member dr_spock's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 01:02 PM #21
      Yay, I was a 1% er in 2019. Managed to buy a brand new wagon with a manual transmission. I had to wait 4 months for it to be built and shipped from the factory. Not a popular automotive choice with many people it would seem.


      Quote Originally Posted by Avus View Post
      Tesla EV = latest iPhone, ICE + manual transmission = rotatory landline phone.
      Those old rotary phones were quite solid and not prone to software errors like a manual transmission. Easier to repair too.

    23. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 01:07 PM #22
      This news should be a surprise to no one who's interested in newer cars. You have electric technology which manufacturers are increasingly adopting, along with increasing infrastructure to support such cars. Then you have another, basically unrelated specific type of technology which is becoming increasingly limited to performance applications. I have no sadness that the manual transmission is being removed from every day cars. I have no real interest in a manual transmission-equipped SUV. It starts, however, cutting a bit close to home for me when performance cars, like the C8, are doing away entirely with the manual transmission.

      As a result, I am seriously considering whether I should just bite the bullet and do european delivery on a 718 GTS 4.0 with a manual. Might be my last opportunity to go with a flat six + manual + resembling affordable in a new car. I always had a dream of doing ED, but nothing from BMW is worth the current expense IMO, and Porsche has always made my dream machines. So I'm eagerly waiting to see what the official pricing looks like.

    24. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      02-11-2020 01:09 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      Thank you. It's going to be a 100 page thread about people whining when it's the people on this forum that are to blame. Stop buying 20 year old used cars for pennies and instead put your money where you mouth is and buy them when you had a chance.
      Easier said than done, I've only been making "new car" money for a year or 2. I could have bought an Si new instead of my Ford used but I didn't know how common the fuel washing issues were at the time. My next car will be a new manual but as mentioned-there are very few manual cars that make practical dailies and aren't penalty boxes for poor people. But quote this, my next car WILL be new.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 02-11-2020 at 01:13 PM.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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      02-11-2020 01:26 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Bingo. People here love to blame OEM’s and dealers for the decline in manuals. Nope. It’s buyers. There simply isn’t enough demand. If people bought them new in good numbers, OEM’s would sell more of them. Corvette owners wrote the manuals obituary with the C7; around 10% of the final production years were sticks. That’s not Chevys fault.
      On the upside, FWIW the remaining cars with stickshifts are exactly the kind of cars that should have them. Rustang V8s, engine-behind-you Porsches, Miatas etc. Nobody misses stickshift Camrys and Sonatas.

      I also feel like with used cars lasting so much longer there's almost kind of a set supply of manual cars available for anyone who wants one. At least in the short term. If demand picks up and regulations allow for it maybe the manual will have a resurgence in the future. But it won't be like it was.

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      02-11-2020 02:26 PM #25

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