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    View Poll Results: Are Frameless Windows Problematic?

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    29. You may not vote on this poll
    • Yes They Eat It Hard

      9 31.03%
    • No They Are Wonderful

      20 68.97%
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    Results 1 to 25 of 34
    1. 02-08-2020 03:56 PM #1
      I noticed that more than a few of these swoopy roof line cars have frameless side windows. From what I know when you pull the handle, the windows drop and when you close the window they pop up.

      In the past I had a Mustang that had them and I huge amounts of grief with them in the winter. They would almost always freeze the glass to the rubber if it was wet before the temperature dropped. In the morning you would have the joy of trying to open the door without damaging the window.

      Got me thinking - are the current generation of frameless windows problematic or not?
      Last edited by tincanman99; 02-08-2020 at 03:58 PM.

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    3. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 04:07 PM #2
      I guess it depends on the car. I don't have problems with my S197, even if it is frozen shut. They appear to have designed it so that it can be opened and closed just fine even if the window doesn't drop the quarter inch or so.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
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      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    4. 02-08-2020 04:12 PM #3
      My 20 year old frameless windows on my Audi and BMW are fine, even in below freezing weather (~15°), so I would have to imagine current cars are pretty good

    5. 02-08-2020 04:18 PM #4
      Not all cars with frameless windows do the little deal with cracking the window open or closed a smidge when opening or closing the door.

      My previous car had frameless windows (which didn't do that little motion). I never had an issue with them.

    6. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 04:38 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce View Post
      I guess it depends on the car. I don't have problems with my S197, even if it is frozen shut. They appear to have designed it so that it can be opened and closed just fine even if the window doesn't drop the quarter inch or so.
      I kept my S550 outside and was also fine.

    7. 02-08-2020 08:29 PM #6
      My CLA's windows work just fine, never freeze shut or struggle to open even when the whole car is frozen with that misty ice. But they're small. But they open instantly, every single time. 100% dependable.

      BMW's vert windows freeze shut with just one singular spec of ice or sometimes with no obvious signs of. The motors are weaker than a dystrophic squirrel arm, absolutely pathetic. The windows are quite a bit longer too, but still. It's impossible to open/close doors in freezing temps, period. Fails every single morning, completely hopeless. This is why it's parked for the winter.

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      02-08-2020 10:18 PM #7
      Ms ghost and I both have a thing for coupes so we’ve had a huge number of cars with frameless windows. I love them from a design point of view. But it’s absolutely a form>function decision.

      • You can’t run racks that grip there, only ones that bolt into the roof
      • Ice build up can really mess with them and the doors ability to open/close/indicate as such
      • There can be extra rattles. In the E92 this was bad, but more recent cars have been OK
      • Passengers not used to frameless windows like to close the door by the glass
      • Occasionally touchless car washes will get a little water in where the B-pillar is
      • I believe there’s more wind noise but this is tough to compare


      Edit: The one functional benefit though is getting into the car if the windows are down. Since coupe doors are typically long, only your hips need to get past the back of their door and your arm shoulder can go over it.
      Last edited by ghost03; 02-08-2020 at 10:20 PM.

    9. Member Chmeeee's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 10:21 PM #8
      My F34 3GT has frameless windows (not sure why honestly) and I've never had an issue through 4 Massachusetts winters.
      | 2014 Cadillac ATS Performance | 2014 BMW 335i GT |

    10. I’m not a loser. I’m a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 10:37 PM #9
      Over the last 20 or so years, I’ve owned 8 cars with frameless windows. The only time I’ve had issues with windows freezing on me is when I washed my car when it was very very cold and I didn’t wipe down the windows and weatherstripping. It’s a non issue. Fatigued weatherstripping and highway speeds is a separate issue. The first four were ‘80s GM coupes, the last four were golden era Subarus.

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    11. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 10:59 PM #10
      Ford's idea of frameless windows:



      All of my Subarus have been fine, same with my family's Minis. I did date a girl out in LA who had a ~5 y/o Forester that made a ton of racket through the seals, but as I mentioned, my (older, Northeastern) Subarus have been totally fine.

    12. Member dr_spock's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 11:06 PM #11
      Our coupe windows and ice don't play well. So far one window motor replaced under warranty. Before pressing the door unlock button, we run an old credit card between the glass and weather strip to play break the ice.

    13. 02-08-2020 11:09 PM #12
      Wife's '12 Beetle can be problematic, but probably partly because the window drop is clunky AF, even normally.

      My S197 was 10x smoother and less clunky, and never caused issues in the winter.

      So I guess it depends on the car and how well the manufacturer implemented the window drop.

    14. Member Elite_Deforce's Avatar
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      02-09-2020 12:13 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      Ms ghost and I both have a thing for coupes so we’ve had a huge number of cars with frameless windows. I love them from a design point of view. But it’s absolutely a form>function decision.

      • You can’t run racks that grip there, only ones that bolt into the roof
      • Ice build up can really mess with them and the doors ability to open/close/indicate as such
      • There can be extra rattles. In the E92 this was bad, but more recent cars have been OK
      • Passengers not used to frameless windows like to close the door by the glass
      • Occasionally touchless car washes will get a little water in where the B-pillar is
      • I believe there’s more wind noise but this is tough to compare


      Edit: The one functional benefit though is getting into the car if the windows are down. Since coupe doors are typically long, only your hips need to get past the back of their door and your arm shoulder can go over it.
      Actually, you are right. When my passenger window is all the way down, it rattles pretty bad. I always assumed it was because I opened up the door to install speakers once, but now I wonder.

      I actually find the wind noise to be better than most cars, for some reason.
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      People have been complaining about modern BMWs lacking steering feel so they are adding torque steer.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ernie McCracken View Post
      I don't trust the judgment of anyone who likes black wheels.
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I find it ironic that long time Euro brand fans would assume long term reliability issues would destroy any love of a unique product.

    15. Member Rav_VW's Avatar
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      02-09-2020 12:23 PM #14
      12 years and 120k miles and the ones on my 135i are just fine. A little wind noise if the temperatures is 20F or below but that's it. The rubber seal is a bit hard along the top and back edge, but I treat it with softener and it is fine. No issues with rain, snow, car wash, etc. Window motors are just fine and they always work fine opening and closing the door.

      All that said, I still prefer full framed windows/doors.

    16. Member MGQ's Avatar
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      02-09-2020 12:39 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Stevo12 View Post
      Ford's idea of frameless windows:
      They'll do that if you lock the keys in your rental car or park in a bad part of town.
      This is only temporary, unless it works. - Red Green

    17. Member Vettes, Volvos and VWs's Avatar
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      02-09-2020 01:44 PM #16
      Currently have 2 vehicles and they now both go away for the winter. The lady's Beetle and my CC don't like the cold. We get some very cold weather here though. They seal prefect and the mechanisms work well they just freeze to the bottom of the weather stripping. Meaning you have to warm the car up before you can fully close the door and be one your way.

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    18. Senior Member nm+'s Avatar
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      02-09-2020 07:59 PM #17
      I have 15 year old subaru frameless windows and they've been flawless except that one time someone broke into my car by smashing the windows and the ****ty window repair place ****ed up the install by not installing new clips.
      Quote Originally Posted by Ducky TSX
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      02-09-2020 08:11 PM #18
      I don’t know about problem per say, but the B9 A4 is so quiet that when I test drove the A5 SB, the increase in wind noise was quite noticeable

    20. 02-09-2020 08:21 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      I don’t know about problem per say, but the B9 A4 is so quiet that when I test drove the A5 SB, the increase in wind noise was quite noticeable
      I saw a beautiful A5 Sportback yesterday that was some dazzling blue. When the guy opened the door I noticed that there was no frame which prompted my original post. Beautiful car though.

    21. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      02-09-2020 09:26 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      They'll do that if you lock the keys in your rental car or park in a bad part of town.
      I thought that the car had suffered a break-in or two, but a quick check of other Mustang 'verts in the parking lot yielded the same problem (maybe they're all rentals?) and one of my car buddies that I'd texted (who also works in auto body) was like "they're all like that". It was all over the Mustang forums, too.

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      02-09-2020 10:40 PM #21
      I had no issues with my 350Z. The tire noise was so loud it drowned any added wind noise out

    23. 02-10-2020 04:34 AM #22
      frameless windows always have the best window visors.

      case in point, my first 2 cars.



      also, still in my stable, even though this one isnt mine.


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      02-10-2020 08:44 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Elite_Deforce
      When my passenger window is all the way down, it rattles pretty bad. I always assumed it was because I opened up the door to install speakers once, but now I wonder.
      It was windows up in the E92 but it drove my mad. Sounded like something in the dash or headliner and only from messing around with it did I realize what was going on.

      It also got worse over time as the seals got older...a lot of what I did was condition the seals with a Meguiar spray, replacing them probably would've bought a few years though.

      I could definitely see where windows down could rattle though. Might be able to test that (carefully) with some sort of plastic wedge?

    25. Member t_white's Avatar
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      02-10-2020 10:01 AM #24
      I have never been a fan of frameless windows as they tend to rattle more inside the door from my experience. I remember when the battery on my 911 died, I went to open the door but it was stuck because there was no power to drop the window down half an inch to clear the seal on the car so the door would actually open. Ended up having to pull hard enough to pop the glass out of the seal (I honestly thought I was going to break or bend something). Of course now when shutting the door, the window would not drop to go back in place either, until it had proper power.

    26. 02-10-2020 02:05 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by SpecificationR View Post
      frameless windows always have the best window visors.

      case in point, my first 2 cars.



      also, still in my stable, even though this one isnt mine.

      Dam photobucket.

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