Fourtitude.com - Tesla Being Shady As Hell: Removing Autopilot Feature Without Notice After Customer Buys Used Model S
Username or Email Address
Do you already have an account?
Forgot your password?
  • Log in or Sign up

    Fourtitude.com


    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
    Results 1 to 25 of 48
    1. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 12th, 2003
      Location
      Garner, NC
      Posts
      23,297
      Cars
      2017 Audi A4 Quattro Prestige, 2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
      02-06-2020 10:41 PM #1


      Brief teaser:

      Let’s recap a little bit at this point: A Model S with Enhanced Autopilot (which includes the Summon feature) and FSD “capability” is sold at auction, a dealer buys it, after the sale to the dealer Tesla checks in on the car and decides that it shouldn’t have Autopilot or FSD “capability,” dealer sells car to customer based on the specifications they were aware the car had (and were shown on the window sticker, and confirmed via a screenshot from the car’s display showing the options), and later, when the customer upgrades the car’s software, Autopilot and FSD disappear.

      When Alec asked Tesla customer support about this, this was their response:

      Tesla has recent identified instances of customers being incorrectly configured for Autopilot versions that they did not pay for. Since, there was an audit done to correct these instances. Your vehicle is one of the vehicles that was incorrectly configured for Autopilot. We looked back at your purchase history and unfortunately Full-Self Driving was not a feature that you had paid for. We apologize for the confusion. If you are still interested in having those additional features we can begin the process to purchase the upgrade.
      This is all very puzzling. Alec bought the car from a dealer based on a set of features that the dealer understood the car to have when purchased at auction. If Alec saw that the car had Autopilot and FSD when he paid for it, how, exactly, did he not pay for those features?

      Full story here:

      https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-...mer-1841472617
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    2. Remove Advertisements

      Advertisements
       

    3. Member adrew's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 15th, 2003
      Location
      Texas
      Posts
      18,376
      Cars
      '12 Yaris, '17 Corolla
      02-06-2020 10:53 PM #2
      Is Tesla taking the stance that paying $8000 for the software that enables these features is like a one-time license, only valid during the time the original owner owns the car?

      I could maybe see that angle if it was added on after the fact (like iDrive extras or lifetime weather service or satellite radio service or something paid for on a credit card, with click-thru terms agreed to) but the fact that it's on the Monroney complicates it a lot in my mind.
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio

    4. Goes in two directions RAVatar's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 28th, 2005
      Location
      Savannah, GA
      Posts
      3,385
      Cars
      '14 Toy RAV4Runner '13 Ferrari 458 Italia Size: XS
      02-06-2020 10:54 PM #3
      This gon be good.
      Off Topikstan CSB Thread, First Responder (c) 2013
      IG - the_cama_lens
      OG:SAV912
      Quote Originally Posted by Time for an aSS
      She got so pissed off she dumped her tits out at me.

    5. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 20th, 2004
      Location
      NAT HLA & WATRS
      Posts
      8,795
      Cars
      2013 Volt
      02-06-2020 11:20 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post
      Is Tesla taking the stance that paying $8000 for the software that enables these features is like a one-time license, only valid during the time the original owner owns the car?

      I could maybe see that angle if it was added on after the fact (like iDrive extras or lifetime weather service or satellite radio service or something paid for on a credit card, with click-thru terms agreed to) but the fact that it's on the Monroney complicates it a lot in my mind.
      No. The feature stays with the car forever once paid for. They are saying that the particular car did NOT have it paid for (e.g. by the original owner), that the feature was present in error, and therefore they were correcting the error.

      A better comparison example would be if you bought a car that was capable of satellite radio but did not pay for a subscription, and the dealer had activated it with a 'demo' code so you were able to use satellite radio without having paid for it yourself. Then, SiriusXM finds out and goes "hey, even though you've been listening to the sportsball channel for years, it was never actually paid for and you aren't entitled to continue having it for free, so we're deactivating it."

      In this case, if the dealer that sold the used Tesla did so in good faith, and the buyer bought it in good faith, then while Tesla may be technically in the right to remove the feature it would really be best for them to not do so and to leave it alone for goodwill - they should have caught the mistake earlier when the original owner still owned it.

    6. Member dr_spock's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 16th, 1999
      Posts
      6,542
      Cars
      1998 New Beetle. 2019 GSW
      02-06-2020 11:30 PM #5
      Welcome to the wonderful world of software licensing. What does their EULA say about license grant and restrictions?

    7. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 12th, 2003
      Location
      Garner, NC
      Posts
      23,297
      Cars
      2017 Audi A4 Quattro Prestige, 2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
      02-06-2020 11:32 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      No. The feature stays with the car forever once paid for. They are saying that the particular car did NOT have it paid for (e.g. by the original owner), that the feature was present in error, and therefore they were correcting the error.
      Then why was it listed in the Monroney?

      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    8. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 5th, 2003
      Location
      West Coast, not that west coast. Bay area, not that bay area.
      Posts
      42,217
      Cars
      16 Cayman GTS, 16 Colorado Crew, 19 Bolt, 09 Versys, 2017 Barracuda
      02-07-2020 12:26 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      No. The feature stays with the car forever once paid for. They are saying that the particular car did NOT have it paid for (e.g. by the original owner), that the feature was present in error, and therefore they were correcting the error.

      In this case, if the dealer that sold the used Tesla did so in good faith, and the buyer bought it in good faith, then while Tesla may be technically in the right to remove the feature it would really be best for them to not do so and to leave it alone for goodwill - they should have caught the mistake earlier when the original owner still owned it.
      The way I read it is that the car was originally sold with the EA and FSD features. Then the car was lemoned. Tesla seems to have then sold the car at auction to a dealer on Nov. 15 but left the original Monroney sticker in the car. So the auction buyer (the dealer) could be under the impression that they were getting the features as shown on the sticker.

      On Nov. 18 during a remote audit Tesla pulled the features from the car. Note that Tesla didn't own the car on Nov. 18. Had they pulled the features on Nov.14 and removed the Monroney sticker from the car, then I would see no issue. But that's not what happened. Finally, the dealer sold the car to a retail buyer, who likely thought they were getting EA and FSD due to the Monroney sticker in the car.

      So I would say Tesla is at fault for basically being sloppy with their sales and owes the features to the car's owner. They should only be able to remove features when they are in ownership of the car, not once the car is in someone else's ownership. Otherwise it would be like sending a mechanic over to your house and swapping your alloy wheels for steel wheels.

    9. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jun 5th, 2003
      Location
      West Coast, not that west coast. Bay area, not that bay area.
      Posts
      42,217
      Cars
      16 Cayman GTS, 16 Colorado Crew, 19 Bolt, 09 Versys, 2017 Barracuda
      02-07-2020 12:28 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by dr_spock View Post
      Welcome to the wonderful world of software licensing. What does their EULA say about license grant and restrictions?
      If their EULA says that I have to pay $8000 for a feature that is only good while I own that feature and I can't resell the feature, then I would never, never buy a Tesla. It is an instant $8000 depreciation item.

    10. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 29th, 2009
      Posts
      17,283
      Cars
      LS3 Malibu, Mid Engined Camry
      02-07-2020 01:15 AM #9
      Dealer that bought the car can arbitrate with the auction over the car being misrepresented. Dealer will win. Customer will give the car back, and the auction will go after Tesla.

      Unless Tesla realizes that this is really stupid and just reactivates it.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    11. Member
      Join Date
      Sep 20th, 2000
      Location
      Toronto
      Posts
      12,798
      Cars
      2008 Hyundai Accent, 2007 S2000
      02-07-2020 01:58 AM #10
      Just drive your own car.
      “I am not a Mac user unless under duress.” - John Carmack

    12. 02-07-2020 02:18 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post
      Then why was it listed in the Monroney?


      Tesla is going to be sued for this act, as they should be.

      If the car was equipped with this feature as new on the VIN it should stay with the car (it's clearly not listed as a subscription product such as Sirius Radio). I don't see how Tesla can meddle with something that long ago left their hands and was already sold to a private party. I hope they lose big.
      Last edited by focusgroup1; 02-07-2020 at 02:57 AM.

    13. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2002
      Location
      northwest corner, WA
      Posts
      40,880
      Cars
      all the diesels, and an mg
      02-07-2020 04:20 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Sold Over Sticker View Post
      Unless Tesla realizes that this is really stupid and just reactivates it.
      like contacting any major car manufacturer, someone will have to hit up the customer service line/tweet @elon

    14. 02-07-2020 04:28 AM #13
      Shady crap, if Fords crosstang has the saem range and doesnt do shiesty crap like this they may take over

    15. Member
      Join Date
      Sep 3rd, 2013
      Location
      Düsseldorf
      Posts
      2,711
      Cars
      997 GTS | BMW M2
      02-07-2020 05:09 AM #14
      there you are just wanting to enjoy the crapbox fully automated computer on wheels you've purchased but first you need to set up a proxy on it and spoof a legit VIN

    16. Member atomicalex's Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 2nd, 2001
      Location
      Detroit and Düsseldorf
      Posts
      17,217
      Cars
      dark blue stick shift station wagon, shiny yellow motorbike, dirty green motorbike, bluBRZ
      02-07-2020 08:43 AM #15
      Oh, this is gonna have unintended consequences.....

      1. Dealers and consumers rely on the Monroney. If it's wrong, or can be negated on the fly without anyone knowing (physical parts missing, etc), I can see the dealer base really going to war.

      2. GM can make some serious hay out of this.

      3. This will effectively kill resale of Teslas. Which may be part of Musk's game, but in the end, it's a bad idea. Residuals will collapse.

      I am sure there are other things that can go wrong. Screwing with a Monroney is not a good idea, and Tesla f'ed this up good.
      たくさんとうふ、よ Where did all these damn Toyotas come from?
      Compared to a British roadster, all Volkswagens are reliable!
      nevAr Lose - DE Minister of Foreign Affairs and Deputy Bankruptcy Controller - IPROfftopikstan, kuhlBRZ

    17. I’m not a loser. I’m a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 10th, 2008
      Location
      44.5 North, 88 West
      Posts
      38,252
      Cars
      made in ‘murica truck and wagon
      02-07-2020 08:48 AM #16
      The future has arrived, and it is dark.
      this signature kills fascists.

      Support Your Local Homebrewery

    18. Member rich!'s Avatar
      Join Date
      Feb 18th, 1999
      Location
      SoFLA
      Posts
      10,092
      Cars
      '17 CarTruck, '17 Alltrack
      02-07-2020 08:49 AM #17
      Car as a Service business model

    19. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
      Join Date
      May 17th, 2010
      Location
      Chicagoland
      Posts
      6,233
      02-07-2020 09:47 AM #18
      It's isht like this that would keep me out of a Tesla.

      But nobody is sacking up to take Tesla on, with the possible exception of the Mach E.
      Matt
      2018 Toyota Highlander SE AWD, Midnight Black Metallic/Black
      2018 Four Winns H210 / 5.3L Volvo Penta V8 300 / DPS-A Duoprop drive

    20. 02-07-2020 10:11 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post
      Then why was it listed in the Monroney?

      Definitely looks like it was paid for to me.

    21. 02-07-2020 10:23 AM #20
      Our local car lot has a used Model S. For some reason, I just can't ever see myself buying a used Tesla. It's like buying a used toaster oven. You lease it new, you use it, you dispose of it when you're done and get another new one. Really, the only car company I think of in that light. Weird.

    22. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
      Join Date
      Aug 23rd, 2005
      Location
      Columbus, Ohio
      Posts
      13,737
      Cars
      2016 Mazda CX-5  2013 Ford Focus Electric
      02-07-2020 10:35 AM #21
      Oh boy, the lawyers will have a field day with this. I want to like Tesla, but stupid **** like this keeps me from ever considering one.

    23. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
      Join Date
      Jul 26th, 1999
      Location
      The Blueass State
      Posts
      27,922
      02-07-2020 11:45 AM #22
      Every day I find myself happy to have an analog car
      Germans are white people. Look up #84 on the list of things white people like: Gear. Lots of Gear. We even have gear farkles over here. -Atomicalex

      Upon my word I have had as much excitement on a car as in the air, especially since the R.F.C. have had women drivers. -James Byford McCudden

    24. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
      Join Date
      Mar 20th, 2002
      Location
      northwest corner, WA
      Posts
      40,880
      Cars
      all the diesels, and an mg
      02-07-2020 12:05 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      Oh, this is gonna have unintended consequences.....

      1. Dealers and consumers rely on the Monroney. If it's wrong, or can be negated on the fly without anyone knowing (physical parts missing, etc), I can see the dealer base really going to war.

      2. GM can make some serious hay out of this.

      3. This will effectively kill resale of Teslas. Which may be part of Musk's game, but in the end, it's a bad idea. Residuals will collapse.

      I am sure there are other things that can go wrong. Screwing with a Monroney is not a good idea, and Tesla f'ed this up good.
      maybe this was another piece of elons long game on not having dealers?

      no one to complain when you randomly reconfigure/downgrade cars OtA

    25. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
      Join Date
      Sep 12th, 2006
      Location
      The Orange Crush
      Posts
      41,341
      Cars
      '19 Alfa Romeo Stelvio, '18 Mazda CX-5
      02-07-2020 12:14 PM #24
      OTA updates FTW Pretty sure we'll see and hear more stories like this in future and from other manufacturers if they all follow suit

    26. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
      Join Date
      Nov 12th, 2003
      Location
      Garner, NC
      Posts
      23,297
      Cars
      2017 Audi A4 Quattro Prestige, 2017 Subaru Outback 2.5i Limited
      02-07-2020 12:17 PM #25
      Even the Tesla fanboys are saying this is sh!tty, so you know it's bad

      https://electrek.co/2020/02/07/tesla...r-sold-dealer/
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •