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    1. Member
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      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      02-07-2020 02:44 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post
      Exactly: a Jetta R can add cache to the model and to the brand. And it can undercut both the Golf R ($40K) and S3 ($43K) in price. It could pull in enthusiasts looking for performance who cannot afford a new S3, it would attract people who can't stomach $40K for a hatchback (myself included), and they might even get some buyers who can afford a more expensive car, but are more frugal with their money.
      They gotta do something about the Jetta's looks. I don't know what it is, but something is off about the interior and exterior design in the flesh.

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    3. Member
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      02-07-2020 03:11 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      You brought up fuel economy and pooh poohed people complaining about the Tiguan's performance. I was just showing that there are other vehicles that strike a better balance on those metrics. If the Tiguan is the perfect crossover for you I don't see why you need to defend it so vigorously
      Not sure how "vigorous" I was defending anything or how one sentence explaining why a business decision makes sense to me is "pooh poohing people".

      VW only has the engines that they have, so when they had to scrap a TDI option and needed to have a cheap regular fuel option, the B-cycle made sense. The decision worked. That's great if Honda or Subaru can get better fuel economy out of a smaller car with a more flinty ride. Good for them.

    4. Member Ttone74's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 03:41 PM #78
      The GTI and GLI phrases are one of kind and have meaning. So they cannot use them with other model, IMO. For example, Grand Luxe Injected is because Jetta trims in the 80’s were G, GL and GLX. They decided to create a sporty version and added a turbo; hence, the phrase GLI! I think VW has used GT many times before on Jetta’s, Golf’s and the Passat. I think they should do a permanent GT trim for all other models like the Passat, Tiguan, Atlas and Arteon. Make it a proper sports version with everything a GTI/GLI get. Leaving room for an R if deemed appropriate.
      Last edited by Ttone74; 02-07-2020 at 03:43 PM.
      RIP: 1989 Mercury Tracer 5 speed 3 dr hatchback, 1995 VW Jetta GL 6 speed, 1997 Jetta GLS 5 Speed, 1999 Ford Escort Wagon, 1998 Mercury Sable Wagon, 2011 Audi A4, 2012 Ford Focus SEL, 2013 Jetta 2.5 SEL w/ Navigation, Twin Reflex Silver Metallic 2015 GLI's (SEL & SE)

    5. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 03:49 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post
      File this under "I'll believe it when I see it at my local dealership."
      x[whatever my reply # is].
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    6. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 03:50 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      The GTI and GLI phrases are one of kind and have meaning. So they cannot use them with other model, IMO. For example, Grand Luxe Injected is because Jetta trims in the 80’s were G, GL and GLX. They decided to create a sporty version and added a turbo; hence, the phrase GLI! I think VW has used GT many times before on Jetta’s, Golf’s and the Passat. I think they should do a permanent GT trim for all other models like the Passat, Tiguan, Atlas and Arteon. Make it a proper sports version with everything a GTI/GLI get. Leaving room for an R if deemed appropriate.
      The GTI trim is also used for the Polo and Up!. But yeah, they would not use it for and SUV. A Tiguan GT would work.

    7. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 03:57 PM #81
      Other thing to consider is as VW rolls out EVs that naturally come with great acceleration times, it'll be quite easy for them to package those cars as performance versions. ID Buzz R-Line? mmm
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      This forum is more and more of an embarrassment every day...

    8. Member
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      02-07-2020 03:59 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      The GTI and GLI phrases are one of kind and have meaning. So they cannot use them with other model, IMO. For example, Grand Luxe Injected is because Jetta trims in the 80’s were G, GL and GLX. They decided to create a sporty version and added a turbo; hence, the phrase GLI! I think VW has used GT many times before on Jetta’s, Golf’s and the Passat. I think they should do a permanent GT trim for all other models like the Passat, Tiguan, Atlas and Arteon. Make it a proper sports version with everything a GTI/GLI get. Leaving room for an R if deemed appropriate.
      Sorry but I had to laugh at the thought of a badge or trim in the automotive world being "one of kind" or having "meaning", after what we've seen with many brands over the last several years.

      I agree that GT works, for example potentially for the Arteon 2.0T-state-of-tune Tiguan I suggested earlier.

    9. 02-07-2020 04:10 PM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by 2 doors View Post
      Sciroccos for everyone!!!!!




      Bones 16v wrote:

      "So I had to do a project in art, i chose to draw the scirocco concept, but when i did it i added somethings i think would make more of us feel it is a scirocco. I made the bumper stretch across the grill, blacked out the grill and vw logo, and moved the logo onto the grill, added a red tag like 16v or vr6, but its tsi, i added fender flares and an intercooler (made it say scirocco across the intercooler) and i made it an awsome color, what do you think???

      free handed"

      .

      https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ept&p=34415571

    10. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 04:19 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      The GTI and GLI phrases are one of kind and have meaning. So they cannot use them with other model, IMO. For example, Grand Luxe Injected is because Jetta trims in the 80’s were G, GL and GLX. They decided to create a sporty version and added a turbo; hence, the phrase GLI! I think VW has used GT many times before on Jetta’s, Golf’s and the Passat. I think they should do a permanent GT trim for all other models like the Passat, Tiguan, Atlas and Arteon. Make it a proper sports version with everything a GTI/GLI get. Leaving room for an R if deemed appropriate.
      GTI is used on other VW models.

      GT is fine but historically, it was used by VWoA as an appearance package trim level which is more akin to the R-Line now (the recent Passat GT as a run-out special on VR6 not withstanding). Maybe not what de Nasschen had in mind.

    11. Member quaudi's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 04:53 PM #85
      Total Bee Esssss.
      2004 .:R32 The Original Burble Cruiser
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    12. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 04:54 PM #86
      Since we're on the topic of badging; VW really needs to make some changes. Purists will hate this idea, but if I were in product planning there, I would leverage the GTI badge:

      [Model] (replaces S, and then this cascades down to the other trims with SEL replacing SEL-P)
      [Model] S
      [Model] SE
      [Model] SEL

      [Model] GT* - replaces R-Line, appearance package
      [Model] GTI** - true performance trim level
      [Model] GTI-R*** - replaces R models

      4motion - any model with AWD (think Golf Sportwagen 4motion SE, or Jetta SE 4motion [do it VW])
      Alltrack - any model with 4motion and rugged trim (think Golf Sportwagen Alltrack. Full disclosure: not sure how SUVs fall into this. Atlas for FWD models, Atlas Alltrack for AWD? Need to put more thought into this)

      *Sporty looks with standard drivetrain. Perfect for those who want a GTI but can't afford it, or someone that wants sporty looks but no need for extra performance
      **Any model with a "performance" drivetrain and exterior enhancements. Can be any model; Golf GTI, Tiguan GTI, Passat GTI, and, most likely to make purists angry, Jetta GTI. Why Jetta? Brand awareness. More people know the GTI label than the GLI label. I had a MKV Jetta GLI for 10+ years; family members and friends (even those who are car buffs) didn't know "GLI" but they did know "Jetta" and "GTI."
      ***Again, leverage the GTI moniker here; -R designates any AWD high-horsepower model. Golf GTI-R, Jetta GTI-R, Atlas Cross Sport GTI-R.

    13. 02-07-2020 05:00 PM #87
      As long as theyre not 2.0t Based im interested

      Is the VR6 dead? would love to see a vr6 TT

    14. Member
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      02-07-2020 05:22 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post

      [Model] GT* - replaces R-Line, appearance package
      [Model] GTI** - true performance trim level
      [Model] GTI-R*** - replaces R models
      The GLI has a decent amount of history, much like the GTI. I think keeping the GLI for sedans and GTI for hatches makes sense. Especially with ROW getting the polo (if it’s still made).

      For SUVs and CUVs, maybe have a trim of GTU? ‘U’ would obviously emphasize utility which people think of when it comes to SUV/CUVs.

    15. 02-07-2020 07:07 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by quaudi View Post
      Total Bee Esssss.

      Totally correct.

      I'm surprised that people still want to believe this nonsense after all the past disappointments. It's talk for talk's sake, probably to appease
      shareholders and then the execs hope those people have short memories.

    16. Member IridiumB6's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 08:07 PM #90
      I find VW's strategy in North America really paradoxical. One on hand, you've got a lot of consumers who completely loathe over interior build quality and materials, European design and handling, "German quality", things that have been done considerably well at VW for a long time and which undoubtedly most buyers look for, or at the very least appreciate. Their cars sell in okay-ish numbers.

      Then VW does a complete 180 and dumbs down basically every car in the line up, offers cars that are just near competitive (Atlas, Tiguan), or complete crap/unimpressive (Passat/Jetta sort of), and they're selling more and more of.

      I don't know why VW is so keen on becoming the next Ford or GM in terms of offering the most mundane crap that can come from every other manufacturer. Yeah, I understand they want to make money but at the same time couldn't they have offered something even a little more special? Does everything in America HAVE TO mirror whats sold in China? I don't want a Chinese Jetta, Passat or Atlas, I want a damn reasonably priced European car.

      But that doesn't exist in our market anymore
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post

      If the next GTI has over 300 hp off the showroom floor, I'll eat my airedale.

    17. Senior Member PowerDubs's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 08:43 PM #91
      Vw’s most interesting years to me (water cooled) were ‘84-85, 90-92 and ‘02-‘06 with a few cars within a little +/- of each period pretty good to swap parts into or out of.


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    18. Member davewg's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 08:55 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      Maybe they will make a manual transmission with a clutch that can make it out of the dealer lot before it fails.
      Not at all still bitter are we?





      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post


      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      I guess I was the only one who posted on page 1 that actually read the article

      Problem with Jetta R is a thing call Audi S3. Assuming next gen Jetta is MQB, it will end up being basically the same car as S3. This is the reason why we don't have A3 Sportback anymore other than etron (because it overlaps with Golf too much); and why we have A3 etron but no Golf GTE (because same car). VW is not going to shoot itself in the foot and sell an identical car for less money. (oh wait... I see where you are going with this now )
      Err....the current gen Jetta is MQB.

      Quote Originally Posted by silverspeedbuggy View Post
      Since we're on the topic of badging; VW really needs to make some changes. Purists will hate this idea, but if I were in product planning there, I would leverage the GTI badge:

      [Model] (replaces S, and then this cascades down to the other trims with SEL replacing SEL-P)
      [Model] S
      [Model] SE
      [Model] SEL

      [Model] GT* - replaces R-Line, appearance package
      [Model] GTI** - true performance trim level
      [Model] GTI-R*** - replaces R models

      4motion - any model with AWD (think Golf Sportwagen 4motion SE, or Jetta SE 4motion [do it VW])
      Alltrack - any model with 4motion and rugged trim (think Golf Sportwagen Alltrack. Full disclosure: not sure how SUVs fall into this. Atlas for FWD models, Atlas Alltrack for AWD? Need to put more thought into this)

      *Sporty looks with standard drivetrain. Perfect for those who want a GTI but can't afford it, or someone that wants sporty looks but no need for extra performance
      **Any model with a "performance" drivetrain and exterior enhancements. Can be any model; Golf GTI, Tiguan GTI, Passat GTI, and, most likely to make purists angry, Jetta GTI. Why Jetta? Brand awareness. More people know the GTI label than the GLI label. I had a MKV Jetta GLI for 10+ years; family members and friends (even those who are car buffs) didn't know "GLI" but they did know "Jetta" and "GTI."
      ***Again, leverage the GTI moniker here; -R designates any AWD high-horsepower model. Golf GTI-R, Jetta GTI-R, Atlas Cross Sport GTI-R.
      I agree with 90% of this, but think just "R" should be reserved for those models.

      GLI should be retained too.

      The rest - makes a certain amount of sense.
      2019 Audi A5 - back to the brand after 28 years
      2017 Golf Alltrack SEL+Tech - Son #1. In a galaxy far, far away
      2014 Dodge Durango Limited AWD - Wife's
      2004 Acura TSX - Son #2. The sax-mobile
      1967 Chevrolet Corvette - I promise to get this car back on the road in 2018....

    19. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 09:30 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post

      Reminds me a little of when they decided to Americanize the very successful Golf/Rabbit back in the day, setting up shop in Westmoreland PA, and then proceeding to take all the German goodness out of our Rabbit - flaccid suspensions, velour interiors, square headlights, and horrendous build quality - a staple of the American auto industry at the time - in order to appease US buyers. Didn't work. Turns out VW fans liked the cars because they were European, and didn't want their Rabbits turned into mini Buicks. These guys never learn.
      That sums things up nicely.
      Lots of VW stuff|Rare Scirocco parts!
      The family: 1955 Customline 351C | 1970 TR6 262Olds | 1977 Capri Cologne | 1980 Rabbit AAZ | 1984 C30 350 | 1988 Scirocco 9A | 1988 Scirocco LP7Y | 1992 Pickup 22RE | 1997 D21 KA24E | 2000 Grand Marquis Modular
      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      You're always better off with a Citroën.™

    20. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 09:42 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
      Reminds me a little of when they decided to Americanize the very successful Golf/Rabbit back in the day, setting up shop in Westmoreland PA, and then proceeding to take all the German goodness out of our Rabbit - flaccid suspensions, velour interiors, square headlights, and horrendous build quality - a staple of the American auto industry at the time - in order to appease US buyers. Didn't work. Turns out VW fans liked the cars because they were European, and didn't want their Rabbits turned into mini Buicks. These guys never learn.
      Are you sure this isn't what reminded you of that?


    21. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      02-07-2020 09:47 PM #95
      Atlas SuperDuperSportyCrosses for everybody!!!!

    22. Member
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      02-07-2020 09:48 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by JackStraw79 View Post
      Who said anything about the competition or EPA ratings? All that matters for me is what I want, what I got, and how much I paid for it. I said it makes sense to ME and how I use it in real life.

      There are aspects of those other cars that make me not want them at almost any price, so I'm willing to deal with the fact that the Tiguan doesn't have the best powertrain on earth. Considering the Tiguan is selling 9k units a month in the US, I'm not the only one who feels that way. Nothing compared to the big boys, but good for a VW product here.
      I averaged over 30mpg at 80mph with a/c on mine. Without a/c I got 33 mpg at 80mph. That was consistent over our 6K trip last year. The highway mileage is great, the short trip to the store mpg is pretty bad. Power is reasonable, it's quick off the line due to it's gearing, but it won't win any races after 40mph. I would not mind the GTI engine in one, but I know the mpg would suffer. For now, I wait to see what the tuning companies come out with. Suspension is decent, but I will be upgrading that anyway.
      Last edited by PZ; 02-07-2020 at 09:57 PM.
      2019 Tiguan SE 4Mo Orange, temporarily stock. 2001 Passat 4Mo wagon, 1.8T/6sp swapped, Konis, coilover sleeves, A6Q H+R Race springs.
      2005 Golf GLS, 2.Slow, Auto, GTI suspension, sways.
      2001.5 Passat GLX V6, stock. (son#1), 2000 Passat GLS V6 fwd Tip wagon, stock (son#2)

    23. Member
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      02-07-2020 10:01 PM #97
      VW is kind of caught in the middle

      China wants big cheap bland ****; Europeans sweat the details.... the US teeter totters. Everyone here loves the Euro ****, but when they supersized the Jetta/Passat sales skyrocketed. I'm sure like other Euro brands VWAG is obsessed with market share and sales targets at all costs, so this is what we get.

      The company has changed a lot. The old ethos of quirky but brilliant cars like the Beetle + Golf are long gone, replaced by a corporate behemoth being pimped by shareholders, bullied by regulators and set back by its lack of executive media training. What is VWAG trying to accomplish as a company besides survival? Seems like they are trying to please everybody and doing the opposite in the process.

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      02-07-2020 10:08 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      VR6 is basically only used in Atlas and Terramont now. Yes, it is still available as option on Passat in some markets but VW sells so few of them it doesn't really matter. I don't think VW is capacity constrained on that engine. But I also don't think they will use VR6 on Tiguan or anything smaller than the Atlas going forward because of CAFE in the US and engine size based annual CO2 taxes elsewhere.
      Yeah, they know they still need it, but they're not inclined to invest it either. I wish that weren't the case but I can't really fault them either.

    25. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 10:47 AM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      Are you sure this isn't what reminded you of that?

      As painful as this is, the 2011 Jetta was the most popular Jetta of all time (in terms of sales): they sold 177,000 that year. The second? The 2012: 170,000. Then 2013 (163k), and then the 2014 (160k). We (myself included) complain about the MK6, but it was a sales powerhouse for VWoA. The “Americanization” of the Jetta worked here.

      BTW: the 2002, 2001, and 2000 MKIV Jettas were the fifth, sixth, and seventh highest sales volume Jettas at 144k-145k each.

    26. Moderator silverspeedbuggy's Avatar
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      02-08-2020 11:02 AM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      VW is kind of caught in the middle

      China wants big cheap bland ****; Europeans sweat the details.... the US teeter totters. Everyone here loves the Euro ****, but when they supersized the Jetta/Passat sales skyrocketed. I'm sure like other Euro brands VWAG is obsessed with market share and sales targets at all costs, so this is what we get.

      The company has changed a lot. The old ethos of quirky but brilliant cars like the Beetle + Golf are long gone, replaced by a corporate behemoth being pimped by shareholders, bullied by regulators and set back by its lack of executive media training. What is VWAG trying to accomplish as a company besides survival? Seems like they are trying to please everybody and doing the opposite in the process.
      THIS. I think this may be what the COO is saying: we’re losing our enthusiasts. Look at this forum. How many people here have left VW for something else. We still have 3 VWs in our driveway, but the 4th was replaced by an Italian. I write two articles a week where I’m looking for interesting cars and the lack of product that I can get excited about dwindles very year, and searching threads and finding Corrados, Sciroccos, R32s, and even Turbo Beetles has me pining for something in the VW product portfolio to get excited about.

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