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    1. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 06:45 PM #1
      Dodge is. MY 2020 Grand Caravan and the Journey cannot be registered in the 13 states that have California emissions laws.





      That's crazy.

      Chris
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    3. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 06:50 PM #2
      lol

      what a half-assed company
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    4. Senior Member chucchinchilla's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 06:51 PM #3
      Aren't both those cars fleet only (i.e. rental car) at this point?
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    5. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 07:13 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by chucchinchilla View Post
      Aren't both those cars fleet only (i.e. rental car) at this point?
      I don't think so.

      Chris
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    6. Geriatric Member absoluteczech's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 07:16 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      Dodge is. MY 2020 Grand Caravan and the Journey cannot be registered in the 13 states that have California emissions laws.


      That's crazy.

      Chris
      I'm sure there is a PZEV or CA version....

    7. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 07:28 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by absoluteczech View Post
      I'm sure there is a PZEV or CA version....
      They may have disco'd it for 2020, but there are more than 150 brand-new 2019 Grand Caravans for sale in the greater Los Angeles area.

    8. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 07:36 PM #7
      Subaru use to sell non PZEV cars here in VA, as recently as 2012 that I know for sure. My '12 Outback came from a Maryland dealer so it was a PZEV. It was basically just a different catalytic converter.
      iain

    9. 01-14-2020 08:05 PM #8
      Doesn't matter even with those restrictions they will still sell a ton of them in the USA, Canada, Mexico and Central/South America.

      Eventually the Feds are going to end those state specific regulations.

    10. Member Lifelong Obsession's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 09:06 PM #9
      The Journey is only available with the 4-cylinder/4-speed-automatic configuration for 2020.

      173 hp, 19 city / 25 highway.

      With the non-Mazda Toyota Yaris Liftback gone for 2020, is this the last car you can buy with a 4-speed automatic?
      Last edited by Lifelong Obsession; 01-14-2020 at 09:09 PM.

    11. Member adrew's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 09:23 PM #10
      Nissan Frontier and Toyota 4Runner have 5-speed autos, but I can't think of any others (in the US).
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio

    12. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 09:58 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Lifelong Obsession View Post
      The Journey is only available with the 4-cylinder/4-speed-automatic configuration for 2020.

      173 hp, 19 city / 25 highway.

      With the non-Mazda Toyota Yaris Liftback gone for 2020, is this the last car you can buy with a 4-speed automatic?
      Im pretty certain its the last 4spd auto in the US. But really I'm SHOCKED they are still selling that.

    13. 01-14-2020 10:07 PM #12
      So what happens if you have one of these cars and move to CA, and eventually they try to force you to register your car there because your neighbors are snitches?

      With my old modified STI; it was easy to just register to an out of state LLC and you can’t be forced to pretty much buy the car from the LLC; but I don’t think the average citizen.. specially a journey or caravan owner would go through that.

    14. Senior Member VadGTI's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 10:19 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Ilikewaffles View Post
      So what happens if you have one of these cars and move to CA, and eventually they try to force you to register your car there because your neighbors are snitches?

      With my old modified STI; it was easy to just register to an out of state LLC and you can’t be forced to pretty much buy the car from the LLC; but I don’t think the average citizen.. specially a journey or caravan owner would go through that.
      If it's a car with 7,500 miles or more or you fit into some exemptions (moving from another state, etc.), you're fine. Also, PZEV gets you some crazy CA warranties on "emissions" components (which includes a metric ****-ton of stuff) for 15 years or 150k miles, so owning a PZEV car is a huge benefit here.

      Quote Originally Posted by DMV website
      Buying a Vehicle From Out of State - Can You Register It in California? (FFVR 29)
      The Bottom Line

      If you are a California resident and acquire a new car, truck, or motorcycle from another state, it must be certified to meet California smog laws to be registered in California. This includes certain diesel-powered vehicles. DMV cannot accept an application to register a vehicle in California that does not qualify for registration (California Health and Safety Code §§43150 - 43156).

      What is Considered a New Vehicle?
      California considers any vehicle with less than 7,500 miles on the odometer at the time of purchase or trade by a California resident or business, to be a new vehicle. This is true whether or not the vehicle has been registered in another state.

      Aren't All Vehicles California Certified?
      Not all new vehicles are manufactured to be sold in California. Many manufacturers make vehicles to be sold only in the other 49 states. These vehicles (49-state) are made with smog equipment that meets federal emission standards, but not California standards. California-certified (50-state) vehicles are made to be sold in California.

      Check the Label

      To find out whether a car, truck, or motorcycle is California certified, check the emission label under the hood. For a motorcycle, check the frame or refer to your owner' s manual for the location. The label should read that the vehicle conforms to California regulations, or that it is legal for sale in California.

      Exemptions
      There are a few exemptions to the law. As a California resident, you may be able to register a 49-state vehicle if it was:

      - Obtained as part of a divorce, inheritance, or legal separation settlement.
      - Purchased to replace your California-registered vehicle that was stolen while you were using the vehicle out-of-state.
      - Purchased to replace your California-registered vehicle that was destroyed or made inoperative beyond reasonable repair while you were using the vehicle out of state.
      - An emergency vehicle, pursuant to California Vehicle Code § §27156.2 and 27156.3.
      - Registered by you in the state of your last active military service outside California.
      - A street motorcycle or motor-driven cycle year model 2005 and older, with an engine less than 50 cubic centimeters (cc) displacement. Beginning January 1, 2006, street motorcycles and motor-driven cycles year model 2006 and newer, with engines less than 50 cc displacement, require an emission label certifying them to meet U.S. Environmental Protection Agency emission regulations, and may be registered regardless of mileage.

      Does This Apply to Someone Moving to California?
      If you are moving to California from another state, you may register a new 49-state vehicle if it was first registered by you in your home state, or for military personnel, in the last state of your military service. When applying for vehicle registration in California, you must provide evidence that the vehicle was registered.

      Vehicles Purchased From Out of the Country (Grey Market)
      California has special requirements for vehicles imported from other countries (including Canada and Mexico). It may be very costly or impossible to modify these vehicles to meet California emission requirements and/or federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS). No direct import vehicle less than two years old can be converted to California emission standards. Not all direct import vehicles over two years old can be converted to California emission standards and FMVSS. No motorcycle or diesel-powered vehicle can be converted to California emission standards. For details, contact the California Air Resources Board (ARB).
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    15. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 10:51 PM #14
      Seriously? Holy cow.
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    16. 01-14-2020 11:10 PM #15
      Do any retail buyers purchase the Journey it wasnt all that competitve when it came out and now its Ollldddd. Reliability was also not that great from the begining

      Caravan seems up to date in comparison

    17. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      01-14-2020 11:32 PM #16
      Bit of an explanation on both of those,

      The Journey is made in Mexico, and sold there too, where it doesn’t have to meet California (& co) emissions. The old 4 cylinder (is it Tigershark or the older “World” engine? I can’t remember) and 4-speed “Autostick” works well to keep the starting price down there.

      The Grand Caravan is the long-running staple of Windsor, Ontario, Canada, where despite the standard Pentastar and 6-speed auto it stickers under $20k USD for the base model. It was actually one of the best selling vehicles in Canada for years largely due to the value proposition, though the equally-Canadian Rav4 and CR-V have caught up significantly. Canada and the US have a lot of synced motor vehicle standards, but typically Canada’s in line with US federal emissions and not California ones.

      Net effect is there’s probably no drawback to them offering the Journey and Caravan in the red states when they’re still making them anyway.

    18. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      01-14-2020 11:40 PM #17
      Edit. Nevermind.

    19. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 12:21 AM #18
      Last year when I was verifying that the 2018 Volt my son was buying would be able to registered in CA, I came across a PDF from GM to dealers that said all their cars would meet CA emissions. I think the PDF was from 2016 or earlier.

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      01-15-2020 12:25 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by worth_fixing View Post
      lol

      what a half-assed state
      Fixed it for you.... California is it's own worst enemy.
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    21. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 06:18 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by forewheel View Post
      Fixed it for you.... California is it's own worst enemy.
      i don't agree.
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
      Any car which holds together for a whole race is too heavy.

    22. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 08:40 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Lifelong Obsession View Post
      The Journey is only available with the 4-cylinder/4-speed-automatic configuration for 2020.

      173 hp, 19 city / 25 highway.

      With the non-Mazda Toyota Yaris Liftback gone for 2020, is this the last car you can buy with a 4-speed automatic?
      God those are trash. My sister, apparently unaware how expensive cars are that depreciate heavily despite trading in her Dart 1.4t, has one with the 3.6/6.

      Although kudos to FCA for keeping the Van going. That's dirt cheap for a big 3 row people mover with 280 hp.
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    23. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 11:11 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Lifelong Obsession View Post
      The Journey is only available with the 4-cylinder/4-speed-automatic configuration for 2020.

      173 hp, 19 city / 25 highway.

      With the non-Mazda Toyota Yaris Liftback gone for 2020, is this the last car you can buy with a 4-speed automatic?
      Yep and it's leaving at the end of the year. IIRC Chrysler was also the last with a 3 speed auto on the Neon (or maybe Caravan?) in the early 2000s.

      Another interesting point is the fuel economy of the V6 journey was so bad, it had to be discontinued since it wouldn't meet the modest efficiency standards that kicked in for 2020.

    24. Member adrew's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 11:15 AM #23
      You could get the Corolla with a 4-speed auto through 2016 (most trims had a CVT but the base L had a 4-speed auto, not as efficient but probably lasted longer).
      Improving the signal-to-noise ratio

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      01-15-2020 11:39 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      God those are trash. My sister, apparently unaware how expensive cars are that depreciate heavily despite trading in her Dart 1.4t, has one with the 3.6/6.
      My parents used to have one, and I didn't really think it was THAT bad in the 3.6L/6 config. I thought it drove pretty well for what it was, it was surprisingly quick on the highway. What is it that you disliked so strongly about your sister's car? Just the depreciation?

      The biggest issue with my parent's car was the dealership service department--my parents were having issues with the heater on it after it had ~150k miles. The took it to the dealership to be fixed, and they replaced the damn blend door actuator 3 times before they finally replaced the heater core and actually fixed it.

    26. Geriatric Member ByronLLN's Avatar
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      01-15-2020 12:06 PM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      Yep and it's leaving at the end of the year. IIRC Chrysler was also the last with a 3 speed auto on the Neon (or maybe Caravan?) in the early 2000s.

      Another interesting point is the fuel economy of the V6 journey was so bad, it had to be discontinued since it wouldn't meet the modest efficiency standards that kicked in for 2020.
      Pretty sure it wasn't Caravan. We had a pretty basic '94 and even that had a 4-speed. That had the Mitsubishi 3.0.

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