VW Vortex - Volkswagen Forum banner

4x4: Paying extra for an option you gloat about not needing

10K views 144 replies 56 participants last post by  Cousin Eddie 
#1 ·
Here in the Great White North we often take pride in our winter driving abilities and mock those who lack it.

But something I see time and time again is the following conversation. Which I heard this morning while in line to get my Tim Horton's garbage coffee. Two guys chatting in line, both dressed in hi-vis orange coveralls.

"Yeah, had the truck two years now and haven't even had to use 4x4. Not even when it snows."

I hear this bravado bull**** from more guys about either how good THEY are at driving that they don't need to engage their 4x4. Or that the truck is so good that they never have to use it.

What. The. ****. Is the point? Why pay an additional $10-15K for a 4x4 truck if you never plan on using it or are "too good of a driver" to need it?

That's BEFORE paying extra for whatever alphabet soup edition truck they bought.

I grew up on Jeeps. I love the things. My family has had more SUVs and Chevy/GMC 4x4 trucks than I can remember.

Trucks blow in slippery road conditions. And they're heavy to stop. The only time i've enjoyed driving a Jeep or truck in the winter is when the snow is physically deep enough to warrant the added ground clearance. And those instances have been rare.

 
See less See more
1
#8 · (Edited)
ironically, i had a 2wd truck, and the only reason i didnt keep owning it, was it didnt have 4wd.

trucks are ****ing awful in the snow, even with 4wd. the weigh distrobution is a disaster, so they handle like ****, are crazy heavy so they dont stop, or turn. AT or LT tires are pretty trashy in the snow. about the only time its worth driving a truck over a sports car in the winter is when the snow is unplowed and more than 7ish inches, which is about never. ive owned a truck for 4 years now, and never driven it to work because of snow/ice.

i agree with the OP. most 4x4 guys i work with will tell me how dumb driving a miata is in the snow, and then the second there is over 2 inches of snow, take vacation and/or not come into work.
 
#7 ·
this more than anything. also, it is useful in some situations - albeit rare - to get out of weird binds like towing a boat up a wet ramp, going offroad (sand dunes, mud, etc), and if you need extra traction to pull yourself or someone else out of a ditch. really just depends on your needs, we like to take our vehicle out to the dunes and other cool places to tool around, so it's a must for at least one of our vehicles. do i find myself regularly using 4WD in the snow, not unless it is those rare times it's really deep stuff. i'd also add i prefer the handling dynamics of an AWD or 4WD vehicle in slick conditions as you can be a little more throttle agressive in steering.
 
#4 ·
1. Whatever money spent on 4x4 up front is probably returned at sale/trade in, possibly more, so it's really a wash.

2. On what planet do Jeeps suck in the snow? Maybe 2dr SWB ones, but on decent tires (even my "minivan tires") my 4dr/LWB Jeep is fantastic in the snow.


3. None of this should stop us from making fun of hillbillies, or northern hillbillies which my southern hillbilly dad always called "Swamp Yankees". :laugh:
 
#5 ·
That's why I like AWD. The car figures it out for you and doesn't make a big deal of it either way.

When I rented a Wrangler a couple of months ago, I put it in 4Lo in a parking lot to see what's it's all about. I didn't realize that drivetrain binding was still a thing when turning the wheel--lol. I'm clearly not an off-roader. :laugh:
 
#6 ·
I'll admit to this. Bought my F-250 a few years ago and had to have 4wd. Drove it in a snowstorm once last year and purposely didn't put it into 4wd. It was too much fun fishtailing! I wanted to see how far I could get without it, but I had it if I needed it. Now, that said, I did use it other times in deep snow taking my kids sledding, and a few other times I got stuck. Truck is now sold and the Sequoia will be the winter car this year. I like that this one has a center diff so I'll feel better about driving it in 4wd on the street. Since I'll have the wife and kids in it for (hopefully) snowy drives to the ski slopes, I'll be more likely to use 4wd.
 
#9 ·
"Yeah, had the truck two years now and haven't even had to use 4x4. Not even when it snows."

I hear this bravado bull**** from more guys about either how good THEY are at driving that they don't need to engage their 4x4. Or that the truck is so good that they never have to use it.
Yeah, that's totally a thing here too. Occasionally I'll see someone struggling to get up a hill or something in 2WD just to say they did it. One time I came across a truck [illegally] using a snowmobile trail. I stopped to politely ask him not to do that, only to be told it was "fine the truck did it in 2WD". Because that was the issue. :facepalm:

Cousin Eddie said:
to get my Tim Horton's garbage coffee.
Ohhh sorry bud, but this may cause a kerfuffle. :laugh: Seriously though, after the BK merger, Tim's pulled out of most of Upstate NY and we miss it all the time. Whenever we cross the border it's one of our first stops, particularly for the sandwiches. :thumbup:
 
#19 ·
Yeah, that's totally a thing here too. Occasionally I'll see someone struggling to get up a hill or something in 2WD just to say they did it. One time I came across a truck [illegally] using a snowmobile trail. I stopped to politely ask him not to do that, only to be told it was "fine the truck did it in 2WD". Because that was the issue. :facepalm:



Ohhh sorry bud, but this may cause a kerfuffle. :laugh: Seriously though, after the BK merger, Tim's pulled out of most of Upstate NY and we miss it all the time. Whenever we cross the border it's one of our first stops, particularly for the sandwiches. :thumbup:
A couple Tim Hortons were owned by Sunoco and it was a little weird when they'd call our help desk asking for some help with their close out paperwork from the previous business day. :laugh:

I was looking forward to getting some burnt brown water from Tim Hortons in Maine but it was boarded up and overgrown; apparently it had closed in March of this year.
 
#35 ·
Ohhh sorry bud, but this may cause a kerfuffle. :laugh:
:laugh::beer:

this more than anything. also, it is useful in some situations - albeit rare - to get out of weird binds like towing a boat up a wet ramp, going offroad (sand dunes, mud, etc), and if you need extra traction to pull yourself or someone else out of a ditch. really just depends on your needs, we like to take our vehicle out to the dunes and other cool places to tool around, so it's a must for at least one of our vehicles. do i find myself regularly using 4WD in the snow, not unless it is those rare times it's really deep stuff. i'd also add i prefer the handling dynamics of an AWD or 4WD vehicle in slick conditions as you can be a little more throttle agressive in steering.
Don't get me wrong, I see the value in a 4wd truck entirely. If I were to buy a truck it would be 4x4 because i'd be towing a boat with it and driving it in snow.

This is more to do with paying extra for a feature then bragging about never needing to use it. Makes no sense to me. I think the feature is warranted and trucks are borderline useless up here without it. Which is why I don't understand why you'd add the risk or stress of driving in bad weather without using 4wd.
 
#89 ·
This is more to do with paying extra for a feature then bragging about never needing to use it. Makes no sense to me. I think the feature is warranted and trucks are borderline useless up here without it. Which is why I don't understand why you'd add the risk or stress of driving in bad weather without using 4wd.
Given that most newer trucks have a "4A" mode where it's RWD until the computer decides to engage 4WD, is it possible that some of these not-too-bright people you're talking to don't realize 4WD is engaging, they're just not the ones doing it? Then again, you're GTA/GTHA right? Not exactly the snow belt, so maybe not.
 
#91 ·
Given that most newer trucks have a "4A" mode where it's RWD until the computer decides to engage 4WD, is it possible that some of these not-too-bright people you're talking to don't realize 4WD is engaging, they're just not the ones doing it? Then again, you're GTA/GTHA right? Not exactly the snow belt, so maybe not.
This. My family grew up with Suburbans and I think two gens ago the "2HI" button disappeared, leaving AUTO 4WD or AWD as the replacement setting. There is a locked 4HI and 4LO but the straight RWD is gone. I think the 2001 truck had 2HI but the 2005 and 2016 don't.

Are the GM pickups the same?
 
#10 ·
All things being equal, the different between a 4x2 and a 4x4 is more like $5k. In some cases it might be a bit more because on certain bodystyles/trims choosing 4x4 also forces a bigger engine.

A 2WD truck that is anything but a base model regular cab is basically unsellable in Canada, new or used. There's really no point in buying one. 20 years ago it was more common for older guys to buy high-spec 2WD trucks (even loaded regular cabs) but these days everyone wants a 4x4.
 
#13 ·
When I was test driving F150s, I asked the very knowledgeable and older sales guy if they ever got any 3.5L EB truck in regular cab or RWD. He gave me a "you ain't too bright, are ya son?" look. They are nearly unsellable when new and definitely unsellable used. Which is a shame because that truck would have a better power/weight ratio than a Focus ST.
 
#11 ·
I like 4x4 because f*ck you.

/america
 
#20 ·
I don't go to work when it snows because it's an easy out.

It has nothing to do with my ability to get there, but everything to do with me having an easy excuse to stay home. "Oh, it's snowing. Free day off."
 
#23 ·
"Yeah, had the truck two years now and haven't even had to use 4x4. Not even when it snows."

I hear this bravado bull**** from more guys about either how good THEY are at driving that they don't need to engage their 4x4. Or that the truck is so good that they never have to use it.

What. The. ****. Is the point? Why pay an additional $10-15K for a 4x4 truck if you never plan on using it or are "too good of a driver" to need it?

That's BEFORE paying extra for whatever alphabet soup edition truck they bought.
So true!

I've heard too many guys say this.

Although I do have a friend who has a RAM 1500 4x4 and loves to drive it on the beach for fishing. I went with him and the beach ride is long and so many other fishermen on the beach you have tons of tracks. Anyways, whenever I thought we were gonna get stuck, the 4x4 high and low PSI did it perfectly. Never ever did we get stuck, not even in deeper tracks on the sand. He loves his 4x4 and actually uses it often whether sand or snow.

But you're right, why the f**k pay all that extra money if they won't use it?
 
#27 ·
x10 on the Resale argument. The only time you see a 2wd truck here is a company-provided work truck or someone who's reeeeeallllly cheap.

And the popular CUV's are ALL AWD up here. If you find a 2 wheel drive CRV, or RAV4 up here is a real anomaly and good luck selling it.
 
#34 ·
I started this same conversation before I bought my Frontier. I live in central Ohio. Does it snow? Sometimes, maybe 5 times a year. I got Hankook AT-M off-road tires standard on my Desert Runner. Most trucks have crappy "SUV" tires on them that are not really made for off-road. The responses I got were easily 3/4 of the respondents thought 2WD was fine. So I paid $24700 for my brand new Frontier. A new Nissan Frontier Pro-4X was going to run $31K. Same engine, same 4-doors, same wheels and tires and suspension. So I saved over $6K.

Ask how many times I have gotten stuck in the snow in the last 53K trouble-free miles.

Zero.

So $6300 in savings or 4WD capability? I'll take the savings. And I've hauled plenty of large items for weekend warrior projects (I built two decks this summer, BTW).

Besides. How much is a tow when most insurance companies provide it for free?

4WD is way overblown unless you go rock crawling, overlanding or live in a northern-most state. Or Canada.

And how many people make it through winter in a front-wheel drive sedan? The vast majority.

As always, to each his own. I love my Frontier. Would not trade it for another truck.
 
#44 · (Edited)
Here in the Great White North we often take pride in our winter driving abilities and mock those who lack it.
I hear this bravado bull**** from more guys about either how good THEY are at driving that they don't need to engage their 4x4. Or that the truck is so good that they never have to use it.

What. The. ****. Is the point? Why pay an additional $10-15K for a 4x4 truck if you never plan on using it or are "too good of a driver" to need it?
Have 4x4. Use 4x4 when the roads are snow covered. I also run dedicated snow tires.
I also use 4x4 when helping a buddy out on his farm.

Neighbour was saying he almost never uses 4x4 and doesn't "waste money on snow tires". :screwy: CSB
"He's used to driving out west and never needed 4x4 because he can drive fine" :bs:

We also spent a bit extra for 4Motion (w/manual) when buying the wife's Sportwagen last year. After 2 FWD Golf/Rabbits she is quite capable of driving in the snow/ice but having the extra grip is a bonus.

:beer:
G
 
#47 ·
I've had my CX-5 in some impressively deep snow and its handled it way better then I thought it could. I'm not sure why anyone would buy a 4x4 and try not to use it. :facepalm: Granted I have AWD but if I had a 4x4 I wouldn't shy away from using it. Not getting stuck is better then trying to get unstuck. The CX-5 is weird and all CPU controlled. It "seems" to do better if you throw on sport-mode, Traction control OFF when hitting the really deep stuff. Plow wash, drifts etc


Snow tires are for STOPING and TURNING more then "going". AWD will help you "go" but won't help you stop.
 
#50 ·
I think a lot of it is due to 2WD being better for fuel economy. Not so much that people avoid it to brag about it later. I drove my parents Suburban to work one day a few winters back. I kept it in 4wd the whole time, but if given the same situation now... I'd keep it in 2WD unless it started getting questionable. Not for fun or bragging rights, just because it goes through gas like nothing else. (8.1L Vortec for those curios)
 
#63 ·
Added weight, too. Robs the lulz.
 
#66 ·
I just had a discussion like this with someone that lives in Minneapolis, but about snow tires.

He is genuinely annoyed by people who “rely” on snow tires to compensate for lack of skill (his words, not mine), and proudly runs his all seasons year round. I pointed out that he’d be perfectly fine using those all-season tires on a track day, too, but that didn’t mean it was the correct option.

There’s just a certain mindset that looks down on anything that suggests it’s not their pure superior driving skills that has kept them safe and accident free. The “yeah sure I have 4wd, but I’m way too skilled to use it” though process is a perfect example of that.

I mean.. I grew up slaloming a Volvo Turbo Wagon through Philly snowstorms on Pirelli P6’s as a teen. Yes it probably made me a better driver, long term, to learn about traction - as in, not having much. But if I lived in a snowy climate, I’d go ahead and beat my chest while browsing Tire Rack for the latest Blizzak without feeling like I was admitting defeat. Definitely throw that lever into 4wd, too.
 
#69 ·
I mean.. I grew up slaloming a Volvo Turbo Wagon through Philly snowstorms on Pirelli P6’s as a teen. Yes it probably made me a better driver, long term, to learn about traction - as in, not having much. But if I lived in a snowy climate, I’d go ahead and beat my chest while browsing Tire Rack for the latest Blizzak without feeling like I was admitting defeat. Definitely throw that lever into 4wd, too.
But pulling that lever into 4wd can be worse. It isn't always about skill. There are times in certain snow conditions where having that locked center diff actually makes it much worse. My TJ as an example 2-3" of snow, 2wd. Nothing to do with driver skill, it simply does not turn with the center diff locked. The short wheelbase definitely sucks in 2wd because the rear constantly wants to pass the front but you can at least make it somewhere in 2wd you can't in 4wd. Get deeper and the tires can actually bite then yes 4wd works great. Virtually all of my snow driving in that vehicle has been in 2wd wishing I was in virtually any other vehicle.
 
#94 · (Edited)
The auto-4wd option in the Chevy's is less than stellar, as it's having to engage the transfer case every time the rear slips.

So if it's raining, you take off from a light on the highway, clunk, goes into 4wd. Now you're driving down the highway in 4wd for absolutely no reason, until you slow back down to a speed where it's appropriate to disengage itself. It's also rough on the transfer case and promotes unnecessary wear.

Leave them in 2wd unless you need the 4x4. Auto is bad news, going all the way back to the GMT800's.
 
#95 ·
The auto-4wd option in the Chevy's is less than stellar, as it's having to engage the transfer case every time the rear slips.

So if it's raining, you take off from a light on the highway, clunk, goes into 4wd. Now you're driving down the highway in 4wd for absolutely no reason, until you slow back down to a speed where it's appropriate to disengage itself. It's also rough on the transfer cases and promotes unnecessary wear.

Leave them in 2wd unless you need the 4x4. Auto is bad news, going all the way back to the GMT800's.
The clanking I've heard when I tested the 4x4 engagement out on the Tahoe during the "test drive" was hilarious. It worked though.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top