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    1. Senior Member Lwize's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 11:58 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by antilock View Post
      The MPG numbers are kind of blurry here back in the days of the original FAMILY CAMRY But what I see looks good with those numbers. Even if that had to be one of the worst Family Camry's to drive. I believe the EPA used a different rating system in 1983 nonetheless it's 31/43 mpg city/highway with the four-speed overdrive automatic transmission, sounded good, even if its 4 banger only churned out 92 HP.
      Those EPA numbers would be about 24/30 under today's standards. And the 92 HP would be about 85.

      YMMV.
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    3. Member johnny_p's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 12:06 PM #27
      I don't have much to add other than Ive been in a few new Camry Ubers and they ride so nicely over busted pavement. Good looking in and out. $16k ish for a used one seems like a really good deal, even if it was a rental. If they have any evidence of oil change intervals, it would be a good buy.

      I'd probably go for a hybrid though, if the cost is acceptable for you. Keep in mind, Toyota's hybrid stuff has longer warranties on the hybrid systems (including electric motor, battery, inverter, and entire transmission).
      I like bikes.
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    4. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 01:10 PM #28
      Thanks for the suggestions, all. To touch on a few more points...

      Re: budget...this started as a similar exercise as what led to replacing our Mazda with the Subaru - i.e. what can we get that better fits our needs (in the case of the Mazda, we needed extra space) for minimal cash outlay. I had originally figured getting ~$14K for the Frontier without having looked at book values, but now that I see that KBB is about $12K I have accepted that I'll be handing over extra $$ on top of the truck, the question is how much.

      Obviously since we were originally looking at as close to an even swap as possible, ideally we'd like a $0 payment, but $100 or so a month extra isn't going to put my 401k in jeopardy. In crunching the running cost numbers, it looks like we'll save about $70-80/mo in running costs so that $160/mo payment is really only $80-90/mo extra outlay. Not bad.

      As an aside, the salesman originally brought around a '17 Camry SE (flag #1, didn't listen to the fact that I specifically asked about the '18) and the inside was noticeably more dated. The price was good though, $16k to start whereas the '18 is advertised at $19k. I'd probably end up somewhere around $14-15K for a '16 or '17.

      However, having already bought 2 "201x" model year cars - the 3 and the Frontier - that were originally designed a decade earlier, I didn't want to make the same settle. So, with the Camry, I'm sticking to an '18+ and seeing the '17 reinforced that. I'm willing to pay a little extra for a car designed in this decade. Plus, the mileage on the '18 is better than the '17, with more power to boot.

      That said, I had a look at prices on used Accords. While you can get 1.5T LX's for around the same $18-19K as the Camry, they aren't as well-equipped. The equivalent (kinda) is the 1.5T Sport, which are going for $22-23K asking. Arguably, it seems like the better car, but even at a $20K sale price, it's still a few grand more expensive than the Camry. So, in trying to keep from mission creep, I'm sticking to ~160/mo for 48 mos. ($7700 including all taxes and fees) as my ceiling.

      The 0% deal is also what pushed us from used to new last time around because of the similarities in sales price, but in the current situation the whole total running cost thing gets thrown a curveball when CT property taxes get thrown into the mix. The difference between a new 2019 and used 2018 is likely to be only ~100 bucks a year, but the 2018 will always be ahead of the 2019 in its depreciation curve (thus the tax burden will always be higher) for a vehicle that is pretty much identical between those two model years.

      Not only that, $160/mo for 60 instead of 48 represents a $2k difference in finance cost in payments alone. Yes, there are ~$1k finance charges going with used, so I can have up to about ~20k sale price for a new '19 before taxes/fees push it to about $22-23K all in. But, can I get a '19 SE for $20k sale price? I suppose I could ask, but also see the above comments regarding recurring taxes, reasons for ruling out the similarly-priced Accord, and mission creep. I gotta draw the line somewhere.

      Re: Prius Prime...that was actually the only used Prius they had on the lot. I didn't go for it because the salesman told me it was a 4-seater. Regardless or not whether that's true, and given the fact that we are going for more cabin space than the Frontier, I'm not sure we would be happy to settle on the Prius in terms of space. 50+ MPG and plug-in power is nice, especially since we have a garage with power outlets (don't knock, I know plenty of people with garages here that don't have power) but I fear it will be another case of unhappiness on long trips like we had with the Mazda, with its flinty ride and directional abilities that are easily influenced by a light breeze. Yeah, I could have taken a look at it, but time was also running out on the little guy's nap clock, and we were in the middle of the traditional back-and-forth with the salesman on numbers for the Camry.

      Re: Mazda 6 - good suggestion...but they're harder to find used. Plus, wifey's likely to go CX-5 when daycare payments cease and we get rid of the Outback, so we'll be back in a Mazda soon enough.

    5. Member
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      20 years of German cars led to this: 2016 RAV4 hybrid, 2020 Prius Prime
      12-03-2019 01:20 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Stevo12 View Post
      Re: Prius Prime...that was actually the only used Prius they had on the lot. I didn't go for it because the salesman told me it was a 4-seater. Regardless or not whether that's true, and given the fact that we are going for more cabin space than the Frontier, I'm not sure we would be happy to settle on the Prius in terms of space. 50+ MPG and plug-in power is nice, especially since we have a garage with power outlets (don't knock, I know plenty of people with garages here that don't have power) but I fear it will be another case of unhappiness on long trips like we had with the Mazda, with its flinty ride and directional abilities that are easily influenced by a light breeze. Yeah, I could have taken a look at it, but time was also running out on the little guy's nap clock, and we were in the middle of the traditional back-and-forth with the salesman on numbers for the Camry.
      The 2020's have 5 seats.

      I absolutely love mine on the highway. Very quiet, smooth, comfy. I actually prefer the way the Prime rides vs our RAV4 hybrid and me and my wife always end up taking it instead of our RAV4 hybrid now, whether it's a short city drive or a road trip.

      I seriously suggest you at least try one.

      As a car guy, I never imagined getting a Prius, but I really enjoyed driving it and the numbers made alot of sense. The Prime is miles away from the old gen Prius.

    6. Member nyexx's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 02:14 PM #30
      Not sure how far you live from Jersey but there is a 2018 Mazda 6 Touring for $19,500 with 24,000 miles (1 owner, not an ex rental). When new I always thought they were a better value than an Accord 1.5T Sport or Camry SE. Comes with a sunroof, CarPlay, all modern driver assistance tech, leather, heated seats, smart key access, etc.

      They are tough to find, you’re right about that. Most for sale are ex rentals.

    7. Member HarryC's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 02:58 PM #31
      I had a rental 2020 with the 8-speed. 4-cylinder.

      Only had it and around town here in Austin, but I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. The thing hunts for gears constantly in traffic. Yes, cruise mileage on the open highway in top gear is impressive, but living with that tranny everyday in traffic....I just wouldn't.

      An older 6 speed model would be perfectly sufficient and an even better bargain, IMO. Literally best selling sedan in America, so plenty to choose from.
      Current: 2018 Honda Civic LX 6MT, 2016 Lexus GX460
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      12-03-2019 05:15 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
      I had a rental 2020 with the 8-speed. 4-cylinder.

      Only had it and around town here in Austin, but I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. The thing hunts for gears constantly in traffic. Yes, cruise mileage on the open highway in top gear is impressive, but living with that tranny everyday in traffic....I just wouldn't.

      An older 6 speed model would be perfectly sufficient and an even better bargain, IMO. Literally best selling sedan in America, so plenty to choose from.
      I too thought the 2019 RAV4 I rented last month with the same powertrain just felt awkward and not smooth that is typical with Toyota autos. I also drove the old 2.5 and 6AT and that definitely was more smoother and refined, but the biggest knock on the older ones is the atrocious infotainment and the new ones all have standard LEDs.

    9. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 06:29 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      I too thought the 2019 RAV4 I rented last month with the same powertrain just felt awkward and not smooth that is typical with Toyota autos. I also drove the old 2.5 and 6AT and that definitely was more smoother and refined, but the biggest knock on the older ones is the atrocious infotainment and the new ones all have standard LEDs.
      Maybe it's a rental thing. I rented a '19 RAV4 earlier this year and that was definitely my impression - jerky, awkward, not smooth at all. It was a 1-way to JFK, so I put maybe 90 miles on it in a few hours. Probably not enough time for it to learn my driving style. The '19 Camry LE that I rented, I put something like 800 miles on it over the course of a long weekend, so maybe it had more time to "learn me" and didn't feel as awkward by the time I hit traffic. BTW I drove it for a couple days in Montreal bumper-to-bumper traffic, so I got a sense of how it'll perform. I actually like how it locks up the converter early, which eliminates the rubber band feel of having a 4-cylinder and automatic.

    10. Member HarryC's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 07:21 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Stevo12 View Post
      Maybe it's a rental thing.
      Quite possibly. PCMs "learn" over time and having multiple different drivers who probably beat the cars like a mule doesn't help, I grant.

      My point being: All Camrys I had prior to the 8AT seemed to have Lexus-quality AT's, even the rentals. No longer.

      "Clickbait Scotty" Kilmer has a video to that respect. He's seen failures out of the 8AT that simply didn't happen in the 6AT.
      Current: 2018 Honda Civic LX 6MT, 2016 Lexus GX460
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    11. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      12-03-2019 08:50 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
      "Clickbait Scotty" Kilmer has a video to that respect. He's seen failures out of the 8AT that simply didn't happen in the 6AT.
      That's funny, I didn't know that the 8AT was available in the 1994 Celica.

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      12-04-2019 06:46 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
      My point being: All Camrys I had prior to the 8AT seemed to have Lexus-quality AT's, even the rentals. No longer.

      "Clickbait Scotty" Kilmer has a video to that respect. He's seen failures out of the 8AT that simply didn't happen in the 6AT.
      Considering the RX and ES use the exact same transmission as the 4 cylinder RAV4 and Camry that doesn't make much sense. The RX was one of the first vehicles to use the Aisin AWF8F back in 2013 and it's taken this long for Toyota to trickle it down to the rest of their lineup.
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    13. Member johnny_p's Avatar
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      12-04-2019 09:09 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by got-rice View Post
      I too thought the 2019 RAV4 I rented last month with the same powertrain just felt awkward and not smooth that is typical with Toyota autos. I also drove the old 2.5 and 6AT and that definitely was more smoother and refined, but the biggest knock on the older ones is the atrocious infotainment and the new ones all have standard LEDs.
      That's pretty disappointing. I'd agree with everyone that the older 2.5/6AT combo was pretty smooth as long as the engine wasn't revving fully out. Decently quick shifts too, wasn't always in top gear, etc. Infotainment on the old one was pretty bad for sure, but at least it's a removable unit and easily replaceable.

      For the Rav at least, the hybrid is sounding better and better.
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    14. Member HarryC's Avatar
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      12-04-2019 12:38 PM #38
      RAV has gotten wonderful reviews. A new RAV was right behind the used GX on our short list when we bought in early summer. Wife really liked the drive and visibility.

      The Hybrid fixes the main issue with the regular RAV: Lack of off-the-line power.
      Current: 2018 Honda Civic LX 6MT, 2016 Lexus GX460
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      small car that does it all, incredibly reliable too
      12-04-2019 12:57 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by HarryC View Post
      I had a rental 2020 with the 8-speed. 4-cylinder.

      Only had it and around town here in Austin, but I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me. The thing hunts for gears constantly in traffic. Yes, cruise mileage on the open highway in top gear is impressive, but living with that tranny everyday in traffic....I just wouldn't.

      An older 6 speed model would be perfectly sufficient and an even better bargain, IMO. Literally best selling sedan in America, so plenty to choose from.
      The problem is since it's a Family Camry you're talking about, you can no longer get it with a manual transmission, as far as I know not even the Camry TRD is offered with a manual tranny.

    16. Member HarryC's Avatar
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      12-04-2019 02:00 PM #40
      Correct. Per wiki, the last MT Camry in NA was the XV40, sold until 2012

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota...40_(2006–2012)
      Current: 2018 Honda Civic LX 6MT, 2016 Lexus GX460
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    17. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      12-14-2019 12:12 AM #41
      Just following up...

      I bought the 38k-mile car. For being an ex-rental, it's in very good shape and drives well. It's Toyota CPO, so the powertrain is warrantied to 100k - so if there's any abuse from being an ex-rental that would rear its ugly head, it better do so before 100k

      Ended up at $19k for the car, $14k for the trade-in on the Frontier - my earlier assumptions on them coming down on the price of the car were wrong. A new SE was at $24k and change, too much of a difference to make sense, plus see my earlier comments about property taxes. The dealer did the Car Play update, so functionally there's nothing different between this '18 and a '19 or '20 SE. I picked up the car last Saturday with 38,700 on it, and now it sits just shy of 39,000 miles.

      My impressions on it so far:
      -As I recall from my LE rental, the OBC fuel mileage calculator per tank is pretty accurate to a couple tents, and I'm running about 31 MPG so far according to the OBC. I've done 300 miles and I'm still at 3/8 tank

      -Even though the SE has the 'sport tuned suspension' it's still a freakin' Camry, so the ride/handling balance is still biased towards ride. That said, it feels buttoned down, like a base suspension A6. Confident turn-in, zero float, but it won't give my M3 a run for its money any time soon.

      -I'm aware that road tests of the Camry dung it for road noise. Being that my ears are calibrated for a Nissan pickup truck, an old Subaru with frameless windows, and a tin can Mazda - the Camry is as quiet as a coffin, to me. I'm sure there are quieter midsize sedans, but it's quiet enough in the cabin, and the ride is so smooth that this is cruiser I've been looking for.

      -The 2.5 had good power and the 8-speed makes the most of it. The D4-S port/direct injection system gives the 4 banger the good mid-range power and sound of a tractor - the sound and torque remind me of the 2.0T in my folks' old B7 Audi. But it moves out of the way at cruise, so it's fairly unobtrusive.

      -Speaking of cruise, this thing has radar cruise. Love it, although it's more at home on long drives than it is on my highway commute because as good as it is, it still can't account for morons (or dare I say, wage slaves) that wander aimlessly while putting on their makeup, shaving, etc.

      -I think the complaints about the 8-speed come from people who a) have an aversion to anything without a 3rd pedal and b) don't drive the transmission properly. I can't describe it, but it drives differently than the slushbox Subaru with its ancient 4EAT - which also has an early lockup converter (aka Sportshift 4EAT), but is still an old design. The 8-speed feels closer to a DSG than the old 'Lexus-like' 6-speed in older Toyotas. I think the trans is a big reason why it gets such great mileage for how big it is. I'm a fan of how tight it feels with the early lockup converter and the snappy shifts.

      -Overall I'm pretty happy with the equipment level in the SE. Love the aesthetics, and the black does a good job of masking some of the odd vents and shapes that the designers went crazy on the SE body package. The half-pleather seats are nice and comfortable, although I'm bummed that they lack heaters - maybe something I can add at a later date. It has auto HVAC, but it's single-zone...again a downgrade from the truck. But nearly everything else is an upgrade - Carplay, OBC, paddles on the leather-wrapped steering wheel, LED headlights. And the space...tons of it. This was one of the primary drivers for getting rid of the truck...car seats take up a lot of space, and we just weren't having it in either the Frontier or Outback.

      Anyway...my snobby car friends were pouring out their beers when they found out I bought a Camry, but honestly this generation is enough of a departure from the typical floaty Camry of yore that it was worthy of my consideration, and I love the reliable cruiser aspect of it, and it looks sharp. I'm very happy with my purchase.




    18. Member
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      '16 TLX SH-AWD- NA is BEST
      12-14-2019 11:04 AM #42
      Congrats man. **** car snobs. These are good, honest cars.

    19. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      12-14-2019 11:30 AM #43
      That's a nice looking car. Congrats on the purchase! That thing should last forever.

      Chris
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    20. Member
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      Boring silver appliance w/rear disc brakes & TuRD Japan shift knob
      12-14-2019 04:11 PM #44
      congrats! Toyotanation needs more Camry owners like you if you haven't joined already!

      https://www.toyotanation.com/forums/...tion-2018.802/

    21. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      12-14-2019 09:03 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Congrats man. **** car snobs. These are good, honest cars.
      Nothing like those damn lying krauts?

    22. Member pontiac's Avatar
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      12-14-2019 09:51 PM #46
      Congrats! Haven't driven one but I like these based on; no turbo, no CVT and windows that appear to be big enough to actually see out of..unlike so many other modern cars.

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    23. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      12-14-2019 10:11 PM #47
      Congrats on the purchase, that's a solid car.
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    24. 12-15-2019 10:16 AM #48
      Walmart has jugs of 0w16 synthetic for $16.

      And you can also use 0w20!

    25. Member Dirty Hatch's Avatar
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      12-15-2019 11:13 AM #49
      Congrats.


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