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    1. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 01:20 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      because it sucks to be paying for repairs while also making payments.
      Wouldn't a responsible car owner not only be able to afford a payment for a vehicle within their means, but also be setting aside money for unforeseen expenses?
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

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    3. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 01:22 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Wouldn't a responsible car owner not only be able to afford a payment for a vehicle within their means, but also be setting aside money for unforeseen expenses?
      I said it sucks I didn’t say they couldn’t afford it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    4. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 01:31 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I said it sucks I didn’t say they couldn’t afford it.
      Furthermore, I'd be interested to see just how many folks buying used cars and making payments are actually setting aside money for repairs.

      I'd bet it's less than 10%.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    5. Member Egz's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 01:47 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by MGQ View Post
      Did you know the 2019 Mustang GT has 460 hp now and does 0-60 in under 4?

    6. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 02:02 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Furthermore, I'd be interested to see just how many folks buying used cars and making payments are actually setting aside money for repairs.

      I'd bet it's less than 10%.

      When I buy used cars with a loan it's for the same reason I buy a new car with a loan: it's so I don't use up my cash reserves all at once. So yeah, there's a savings account that gets money set aside monthly and it's there for repairs or any other emergency that might occur. If I paid cash for the cars, that reserve would be depleted and I'd have to wait until it's full again. Now, there is a monetary value break point where I do pay cash for the car (currently I limit that to sub-$10k), but I'd rather get a loan for a low rate and pay it off early without depleting my cash reserves if at all possible.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

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      10-03-2019 02:58 PM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Well I think the curve has changed. I'd say cars 5 years old or less are pretty cheap. It's that 10-15 year old range where things are totally out of control. If a car can keep 50% of its value at 5 years old it holds its value well. So one would guess a 10 year old car might only retain 25% of its value. In reality for a lot of cars it's closer to 30-40%.
      Maybe thats it, because at the price range we are looking at, most cars seem to be older than 5 years.

      But then again are you sure? When I look at slightly used (2-3 years old), I come to the conclusion it can possibly be better to just buy new with a deal on a low interest rate.

    8. Member masa8888's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 03:16 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Bonk2Hossa View Post
      But then again are you sure? When I look at slightly used (2-3 years old), I come to the conclusion it can possibly be better to just buy new with a deal on a low interest rate.
      Depends. If you're looking at a 3 year old E-Class sedan, you'd save 60% off original MSRP, and it's a smart buy. If you're looking at a 3 year old Tacoma TRD, you'd save around 20% off original MSRP, and it's foolish to not buy new.

    9. Learning New Things Every Day. GreenandChrome's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 03:47 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      Wouldn't a responsible car owner not only be able to afford a payment for a vehicle within their means, but also be setting aside money for unforeseen expenses?
      there's no need to be responsible or accountable in this day and age.
      "Excluding the possibility that a female Scandinavian Olympian was running around outside our house last night, what else might be a possibility?"
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    10. Member Senior Member's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 03:53 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by col.mustard View Post
      this plot alone doesn't tell the whole story though... a decent amount of folks were/are on the long term loan plan because of the super aggressive low interest rates. If a manufacturer is going to offer me a 72mo/0% loan, I'm going to happily leave that $30k+ in accounts returning ~5% (that's an interest gain of $5,423.39 over the course of that 72mo loan - 18% of the vehicle price). Even if you only have half that, $15k, in those same accounts, you're still earning $1,207.58 in the 36mo it takes to empty that account (4% of the vehicle price).
      Do you really think that folks who are rolling negative equity are actually investing or even have the money to do so? Also, most of the 0% car loans give you a choice of 0% or $2-3k+ of rebates. So, is it really a 0% loan.

    11. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 03:55 PM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      When I buy used cars with a loan it's for the same reason I buy a new car with a loan: it's so I don't use up my cash reserves all at once. So yeah, there's a savings account that gets money set aside monthly and it's there for repairs or any other emergency that might occur. If I paid cash for the cars, that reserve would be depleted and I'd have to wait until it's full again. Now, there is a monetary value break point where I do pay cash for the car (currently I limit that to sub-$10k), but I'd rather get a loan for a low rate and pay it off early without depleting my cash reserves if at all possible.


      Do people really use separate savings accounts for different things? We have two "savings accounts", one at the bank which is "ah crap we need an extra $500 to get us to the end of the pay period" and the other at the credit union which is "long term savings" type money. There's no "this is the car savings account, this is the house savings account, etc"
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      10-03-2019 03:57 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by masa8888 View Post
      Depends. If you're looking at a 3 year old E-Class sedan, you'd save 60% off original MSRP, and it's a smart buy. If you're looking at a 3 year old Tacoma TRD, you'd save around 20% off original MSRP, and it's foolish to not buy new.
      Good point. Luxury cars don't cross my mind ever.

    13. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 03:57 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by GreenandChrome View Post
      there's no need to be responsible or accountable in this day and age.
      I almost forgot for a second, that's what my parents are for!
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    14. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:11 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Do people really use separate savings accounts for different things? We have two "savings accounts", one at the bank which is "ah crap we need an extra $500 to get us to the end of the pay period" and the other at the credit union which is "long term savings" type money. There's no "this is the car savings account, this is the house savings account, etc"
      I dunno about that. Ours is just a savings account. But it's also available in emergencies (like a huge car repair bill that was unexpected, though I haven't had one of those in YEARS The more likely emergency is a vet bill). I have a toy account for my toys (usually paid into by my side business) and she has a toy account for hers (paid into by her business), and then the joint account that the mortgage and bills get paid out of.

      What I'm saying is I don't use cash on hand to buy cars unless the price is real low. I'd rather not dip into the savings to buy a car and thus have it depleted. My toy account pays for down payments or minor repairs. And helps pay the cars off early.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    15. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:23 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Do people really use separate savings accounts for different things? We have two "savings accounts", one at the bank which is "ah crap we need an extra $500 to get us to the end of the pay period" and the other at the credit union which is "long term savings" type money. There's no "this is the car savings account, this is the house savings account, etc"
      We nip this in the butt by not saving any money.

      No need to worry about what savings go where if you just don't save.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    16. Turtles walk slowly, but get angry fast! Smooremin's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:25 PM #65
      Might as well lease.
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Asking OT for relationship advice makes about as much sense as asking TCL what car to buy.
      Quote Originally Posted by ChillOutPossum View Post
      About 5 oclock I realized I needed to go to Costco for some white people stuff.

    17. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:26 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      We nip this in the butt by not saving any money.

      No need to worry about what savings go where if you just don't save.
      I do the same thing with credit. Max all your CCs and no one can steal your identity.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    18. Turtles walk slowly, but get angry fast! Smooremin's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:31 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I do the same thing with credit. Max all your CCs and no one can steal your identity.
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Asking OT for relationship advice makes about as much sense as asking TCL what car to buy.
      Quote Originally Posted by ChillOutPossum View Post
      About 5 oclock I realized I needed to go to Costco for some white people stuff.

    19. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:33 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I do the same thing with credit. Max all your CCs and no one can steal your identity.
      If a TFL member were to steal someone's identity who had maxed out credit, would they do the right thing? Would they go and get a loan from a local CU under your identity and roll all that debt into a nice manageable single payment? It would be unethical for them to steal your identity, see how terrible things were, and simply walk away... Right?
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    20. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:40 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      If a TFL member were to steal someone's identity who had maxed out credit, would they do the right thing? Would they go and get a loan from a local CU under your identity and roll all that debt into a nice manageable single payment? It would be unethical for them to steal your identity, see how terrible things were, and simply walk away... Right?
      The only reason to be in TFL is to brag to others about how you are in TFL, no?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    21. 10-03-2019 04:50 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Well with the longer and longer term car loans going out these days, it's only going to get worse.
      This, people are getting 72 or longer car loans. When you are paying for a car for 6, 7 ,8 years you will see more people roll in to another car. I think this will only continue as car prices continue to rise. This is going to be the cycle. I get the 60k car that I pay for for 7 years. Around year 5 or 6, they want something new but still have a loan balance on a depreciated asset. They just roll that in on the new car.

      Years back, I worked for a local, small retail bank that was very aggressive in lending. Not subprime, but very close and community lending became their niche. I cant tell you how many loan apps I declined not because of credit or credit score. The value of the cars were so jacked from people rolling in previous cars loans. Upside down was a strong enough word and this was years back.

    22. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 04:56 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by petethepug View Post
      1) Planned obsolescence is not what you feel. It’s engineering standards created with a goal in mind. Joe public isn’t privy to that information on the window sticker. The jump to assign planned obsolescence as unreliable should also be noted it can mean very reliable.

      2) Current market value is what turns planned obsolescence on its head to allow design, good or bad, to base a vehicles value.

      Either one of the above is a difficult case and point to ascertain. Ultimately, time, through appreciation or depreciation is what assigns the valuation factors of a vehicle. A VW 21 window bus for six figures, a Pontiac Aztec for $5h or an old Honda for $4K.

      https://newatlas.com/the-100-most-re...in-order/5657/

      It’s a pleasant and interesting discussion because the goal post of who’s right can be moved to suit a plethora of scenarios.


      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Do people really use separate savings accounts for different things? We have two "savings accounts", one at the bank which is "ah crap we need an extra $500 to get us to the end of the pay period" and the other at the credit union which is "long term savings" type money. There's no "this is the car savings account, this is the house savings account, etc"
      Same. Our Retirement accounts and our son's college 527 are separate, the rest is just in Savings. It's not huge but it's enough to get us through bad months or pay for the unexpected car or home repairs. We just started using YNAB for budgeting so the process may change in the future.

      Anyway... so I've bought a lot of cars in my near 50 years of life on this earth. I rolled negative equity of perfectly good cars into the next one a few times. I could always come up with a "reason" to make myself ok with it and I never put myself out of budget or anything. Then I realized I was better off leasing while I was in my "gotta have it" years.

      The last time I did it was the only smart one actually. Traded out of my V8 4Runner for a new Prius because we were going to be a single income household with a long commute. It added about $2k onto the Prius price but at 0% it was still within budget. We still have that Prius almost 10 years later without any reason to think it won't last another 5 or 6 years easily. The gas savings alone easily covered the "loss" on the 4runner so I call that a success.

      Fact is, most of us car folk just get a bee in our britches and want something new and cool way too often. YOLO. In order to do that in a financially smart way, you should probably just lease, or tie up a lot of cash in big down payments.

    23. Member col.mustard's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 05:00 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Senior Member View Post
      Do you really think that folks who are rolling negative equity are actually investing or even have the money to do so? Also, most of the 0% car loans give you a choice of 0% or $2-3k+ of rebates. So, is it really a 0% loan.
      I was referencing a different graph related to loan lengths.
      praise the lowered
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    24. 10-03-2019 05:01 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by col.mustard View Post
      this plot alone doesn't tell the whole story though... a decent amount of folks were/are on the long term loan plan because of the super aggressive low interest rates. If a manufacturer is going to offer me a 72mo/0% loan, I'm going to happily leave that $30k+ in accounts returning ~5% (that's an interest gain of $5,423.39 over the course of that 72mo loan - 18% of the vehicle price). Even if you only have half that, $15k, in those same accounts, you're still earning $1,207.58 in the 36mo it takes to empty that account (4% of the vehicle price).


      d."
      We are giving Americans a lot of credit. Across the board, Americans are not savers. As much as we like to say things like we are smart and going to let my money work for us, its not happening because Americans dont save. Hell most studies show the average american cant scrape 1000 dollars in an emergency. Yes, people like this exist, but the reality is more people get 72 or longer car loans to get a payment they can manage. I also hear the mumbo jumbo that I spread that loan out but have the ability to pay the car off early if I want. Great in theory, but people arent paying the cars off early. People look at shiny new cars and suvs and say the payment is 349 at 72 months vs. 450 at 60 and 600 at 48. They decide I can live much easier at 349 than at 600.

    25. Member Egz's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 06:26 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Smooremin View Post
      Might as well lease.
      15k-20k Leases tend to cost more than financing.

    26. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-03-2019 06:34 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Egz View Post
      15k-20k Leases tend to cost more than financing.
      You’re doing it wrong.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

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