"this is like trying to curb illegal gun possession by restricting access to legal gun owners."
Except its not. The Chinese are not following the generally accepted practice of fair trade and don't want to make adjustments about this or IP theft.
We are exercising our legal options by raising tariffs on stuff they sell us.
Have no clue how your example is even an equivalent analog.
You sound like the kind of person that still believes in the war on drugs and our post 9/11 ME invasions. Better to drown with the ship than admit it's sinking I guess.
OK< I'll go slowly:
1) It is working, go to any credible non-American non-fake news source and the Chinese economy is hurting hence the currency devaluation and loss of low-pay jobs to places like Vietnam.
2) The problem has been going on for much longer than Trump, however, he is the first inside/outside America to address it.
3) You still don't have a solution to stem the tide of Chinese hegemony
Come back when you have a solution.
As it is, we've lost the next tech breakthru on power storage, so there go some well-paying jobs and no one does anything more than complain about Trump's personality - Which I'd be the first to admit sucks.
Think of it this way. If you hire an attorney to negotiate a settlement - You want the one that everyone likes and is polite and kind and gentle or do you want the a-hole that demands to get his way?
Last edited by Steavis; 10-09-2019 at 07:33 PM.
The last few posts reminded me of this
3) Thanks but no thanks, you don't get to dictate the parameters of the discussion. You've built your world view on the porch of Trump's economic policy sand castle; don't cry when the tides of truth wash them out.
And if I hire an attorney to negotiate a settlement, I don't give a **** what their temperament is. I want someone who's gonna get the job done. Not someone who throws tantrums, makes a fool of himself and weakens my position in the process. Your problem is you mistake bluster and chest thumping with getting **** done.
Still waiting on your solution to all this...
"Thanks but no thanks, you don't get to dictate the parameters of the discussion."
I have no clue what that means. I'd like to think I have as many rights as yourself. Having no solutions means you don't get to dictate whether another solution is bad. It's like critiquing something you don't understand.
I was merely explaining why you're incorrect in your assumptions. Kinda hard to argue when you don't have a point besides saying no.
Listening to diverse thoughts when you have none might help you grow
Last edited by Steavis; 10-09-2019 at 10:58 PM.
And your problem is you fail to acknowledge:
1) The EU and NAFTA adjusted tariffs to be fair (i.e. = to what we charge them)
2) We've actually recognized that the Chinese are an existential threat
3) We've taken action which has affected the Chinese and if you took 2 minutes, you'd realize tanking your currency and watching a real estate bubble blow is not good
4) The Chinese sell us 5* what we sell them. Any tariffs hurt them 5x as much
5) And you have no solution beyond admitting you have no solution which invalidates most of your other posturing. I understood you had no solution the first time you said it.
6) Saying you don't like something without an alternative is futility itself isn't it?
&) You know that if you don't get service you like at a dealer, being an a-hole gets you a lot further than being a shrinking violet
The companies moving production out of China to places like Vietnam were already starting that before Trump as labor costs in China have been rising for years. So low cost items like clothing and shoe production have been moving out of China. More complicated products like electronics aren’t so easy to move.
By dint of their military bases jotted throughout the world, the USA is aggressive and poses a threat to China. There is no way that the USA would allow the Chinese to encircle the country in any similar form nor for the Chinese to patrol American waters and perform military exercises on their doorstep.
^^^one of many similar articles that points out the long term issues. If not from Trump, tariffs and or sanctions were going to happen sooner or later. Maybe we should have waited for a POTUS you like to enact that? And for the record, Obama slapped tariffs on China too, many presidents have. Obama spent much of his 8 yrs trying to balance China/US relations to keep them in check. With mixed results.
Last edited by tbvvw; 10-10-2019 at 07:54 AM.
Accusing China of not playing by the rules is genuinely hilarious when it comes from the Americans and their insistence on constantly meddling in global affairs that have nothing to do with them. The overthrowing legitimate regimes, such as Mosaddegh, and the resulting aftermath we now have to deal with is particularly problematic.
Now that the Chinese are starting to pay their workers more and thus eat into American profits, the American companies are moving to Vietnam, Cambodia etc. (the poverty in both those countries and all the desperate people willing to work in terrible conditions a direct result of American violence inflicted on those populations) - the cycle will be repeated.
Also don't fool yourself, 'democracy' as violently forced down the world's throat by the USA is a farce that allows money to maintain power in its own interests and not in best the interests of the common people.
I am in agreement that we have to address China's trade violations. I just don't agree with how Trump is doing it. He has alienated the allies we need to help put the pressure on China that they will capitulate to. He has weakened our economic position and various key sectors. He's weakened our overall global trade position- not just in China, but across the globe by his mismanagement of key trade agreements that have gone into effect. He has undermined and disregarded the very WTO you are crying that China does not respect. He has made zero inroads in negotiations. How many years do we have to give Trump before we can say his way hasn't worked?
If you're just gonna make up the viewpoints of people you disagree with why even bother having the discussion? I'm gonna end our exchange here. I hope for our country's sake you are right, but the fact that you can't even parse viewpoints presented in black and white suggests otherwise. Have a good day
Take this article for example:
If this was done by US firms they would be held accountable and sued in courts in multiple jurisdictions.
In China, the government protects their own companies and does not allow them to be punished for these illegal activities. And much of that IP is US military/security information.
My bank encounters over 50K hacking attempts from China to either shut us down or steal our data each and every 24 hrs, 365 day a year for 10+ years now. All sanctioned and approved by their government.
Their own population would know more about this behavior, but they censor their internet so no google search would show this. Fun stuff.
So, um, guys. Does anyone have an update on Saudi oil production?
"Does anyone have an update on Saudi oil production?"
Non-event. We've grown our production capacity so that Saudi's lose half their oil its a week-long price blip to us and then back to normal.
Maybe there is something to being self-sustaining and producing our own oil.
Saudi Aramco says full oil production capacity will return by end of November
“By September we will be, in terms of production capacity, at 11.3 (million barrels per day), by end of November we will be at 12 million barrels per day (bdp), which is our maximum sustained capacity,” Nasser told CNBC’s Steve Sedgwick during the Oil & Money Conference in London. Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest exporter of oil.