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    1. Senior Member LT1M21Stingray's Avatar
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      09-10-2019 07:52 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Madness
      Back when making your car faster and better handling was the big thing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tavarish
      The car's best safety feature includes ejecting you in the moment of impact and wishing you the best of luck.
      Buy my couch!

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    3. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 03:47 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      The problem is, one fringe end of one side keeps yelling about an "apocalyptic doom" that is supposedly coming, but...it isn't.

      https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...since-2005.php


      The graph starts in 2004, its not a great way of showing how temperature have risen since we started measuring global average temperature.

      better one here : https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs...l-temperature/

      Since I know you are not a bookperson, here is it in videoformat !




      https://youtu.be/FBF6F4Bi6Sg?t=1180
      Last edited by loyfah; 09-11-2019 at 03:53 AM.

    4. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 03:52 AM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I did go to your link. What I didn't see was an explanation of the data. Was it adjusted? Where did it come from?

      Again, NOAA created a whole new network of sites across the country to more accurately measure temperature, and that new network, unadjusted, shows no warming over the last 15 years. If your site has data with a bunch of adjustments and crap in it, that may be where the warming trend is coming from, not the temp itself.



      May. But have we seen an increase in bad hurricanes? I grew up on the eastern seaboard, there were plenty of bad hurricanes when I was a kid 20-30 years ago.

      Okei, there is proof that claim is false. There is a bunch of scientific journals that you could read to learn this. But again, I know you dont like reading, so here is a video for you:


    5. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 08:24 AM #54
      This is, of course, stupid since a new Ford Expedition is cleaner than a 5 year old Yaris. Are they saying a Tesla X or PHEV Outlander is bad but a diesel Renault Clio (or ancient 2CV) is ok?

      Also to address the "USA BAD Europe GOOD" narrative: it took them another 15-20 years to adapt catalysts compared to the states, 5+ more years before all the low and mid priced models had fuel injection, and Europe foolishly went all-in on subsidizing diesel fuel. Diesel does of course create less Co2, but it creates more everything else, particularly the stuff that creates lung diseases and dissolves masonry structures. And as (most of us, aside from Dubbers) understand now, diesel in anything less than a 5-6K lb vehicle is a waste of time-the drawbacks far outshadow any benefits.

      Current US Co2 emissions is down to 1992 levels, despite population growth. From what I can find, per-capita energy usage has leveled off. Much of that reduction is due to phasing out coal for Nat gas. I made a long winded post about the silly "green new deal" in OT, but basically any plan to reduce emissions while maintaining our current standard of living MUST involve the widespread adoption of current generation nuclear reactors, which is why Merkel was incredibly foolish for phasing out nuclear, which merely increased the amount of coal used to pick up the slack. I can't believe someone as intelligent as Elizabeth Warren (the probable Democratic nominee at this point) doesn't see that. And wind/solar's major problem that no one talks about is that it's incredibly land intensive for the power it produces, housing and land is expensive enough already. Granted, renewables have only been mainstream for a decade or two so they have plenty of room for technological improvement.


      One question I had that I've never found the answer to is if the statistics account for the fact that the earth was in a 500 year global cooling period until the mid 19th century (so it would eventually have to swing back to the mean). Of course, I'm not claiming it's a tangible factor behind current warming, but surely it's a question that would have been addressed by this point, no?



      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post

      better one here : https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs...l-temperature/

      Since I know you are not a bookperson, here is it in videoformat !
      Your link shows a very useful graph (which I can't seem to copy/paste here unfortunately), but you don't have to be a total dick to Stack. Oh and thanks for killing people in your pre-dieselgate MK6 diesel
      Last edited by 88c900t; 09-11-2019 at 08:27 AM.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    6. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      09-11-2019 08:41 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      The juxtaposition of these two posts couldn't be more perfect.

      Big storm hits (just the latest, there have been bad hurricanes forever) and "weather" is proof of GW.

      But long term weather is tracked (where I'm from, "long term weather" is called "climate") and doesn't show proof of GW, so we can dismiss "weather" as not being proof of the lack of GW.


      The key with the NOAA data is:

      -it's long term
      -it's unadjusted
      -it's taken from areas that are not artificially impacted by localized trends (airports, parking lots, etc) that skew the data

      we need more charts then...

      2003-2007 & 2016 to now have produced an unusually amount of 5 cats hurricanes over previous "norms" (same as 1950s to y2k total);

      how are our oceans doing? terrible.









      alaska has been in a news a bit


    7. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 08:48 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by LT1M21Stingray View Post
      This is a gross misrepresentation of what science actually concluded at any of these periods. Media alarmism and science isn't the same thing. Nor is a single unproven theory/paper indicative of the state of science.

    8. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 08:57 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post

      Your link shows a very useful graph (which I can't seem to copy/paste here unfortunately), but you don't have to be a total dick to Stack. Oh and thanks for killing people in your pre-dieselgate MK6 diesel
      No problem mate, I'm of course the dick here, denying scientific facts and spreading lies ! Why is it this way every time someone points that someone is lying on this forum people get so emotional about it, is the anti-climatechange gang a bunch of snowflackes ?

      Back in 2010 i bought the golf because it was the one with the lowest CO2 footprint per km that i could afford at the time, and yes, its super depressing that it is a dieselgate diesel. But i fail to see how this has anything to do with this, nice strawman tho !

    9. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 09:07 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      No problem mate, I'm of course the dick here, denying scientific facts and spreading lies ! Why is it this way every time someone points that someone is lying on this forum people get so emotional about it, is the anti-climatechange gang a bunch of snowflackes ?

      Back in 2010 i bought the golf because it was the one with the lowest CO2 footprint per km that i could afford at the time, and yes, its super depressing that it is a dieselgate diesel. But i fail to see how this has anything to do with this, nice strawman tho !
      -I'm not an AGW denier. Whether Stack considers himself to be is up to him.

      -You got testy over a Dieselgate joke, which was obviously meant to be taken in jest.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    10. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 09:16 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      -I'm not an AGW denier. Whether Stack considers himself to be is up to him.

      -You got testy over a Dieselgate joke, which was obviously meant to be taken in jest.
      I'm sorry ^^ dont understand when there is a joke or not in here. I got testy for sure

    11. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 09:45 AM #60
      Also to address the "USA BAD Europe GOOD" narrative: it took them another 15-20 years to adapt catalysts compared to the states, 5+ more years before all the low and mid priced models had fuel injection, and Europe foolishly went all-in on subsidizing diesel fuel. Diesel does of course create less Co2, but it creates more everything else, particularly the stuff that creates lung diseases and dissolves masonry structures. And as (most of us, aside from Dubbers) understand now, diesel in anything less than a 5-6K lb vehicle is a waste of time-the drawbacks far outshadow any benefits.

      I totaly agree, USA used to(maybe still is) an forerunner in good technical solutions that the rest of the world has enjoyed. The npc opinion USABAD, EUGOOD is not really something i never understood. Maybe it has to do with the average mpg for cars, the relaxed regulations on emissions and let a company destroy the gulf and then not pay for it ( wich also happens in europe, but USABAD okei? ) Also you used to have a generation ( booooooomers ) that had the can do attitude, but now has the lets not attitude?

      Current US Co2 emissions is down to 1992 levels, despite population growth. From what I can find, per-capita energy usage has leveled off. Much of that reduction is due to phasing out coal for Nat gas. I made a long winded post about the silly "green new deal" in OT, but basically any plan to reduce emissions while maintaining our current standard of living MUST involve the widespread adoption of current generation nuclear reactors, which is why Merkel was incredibly foolish for phasing out nuclear, which merely increased the amount of coal used to pick up the slack. I can't believe someone as intelligent as Elizabeth Warren (the probable Democratic nominee at this point) doesn't see that. And wind/solar's major problem that no one talks about is that it's incredibly land intensive for the power it produces, housing and land is expensive enough already. Granted, renewables have only been mainstream for a decade or two so they have plenty of room for technological improvement.
      Agree it is irresponsible of Germany to phase out nuclear energy, the extra CO2 emissions this will create is something green youth organisations and groups like Greenpeace should fully carry on their backs. At the moment USA is not feeling to perky either, rolling back emission control and other forms of regulations just for funsies ? And dont forget, green groups that would endorse candidates as Elizabeth and Bernie also hate wind turbines and hydroelectric power ! so basically they dont want Nuclear, wind or Hydro ! The best solotions for lowering CO2 emissions.

    12. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 09:47 AM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      I'm sorry ^^ dont understand when there is a joke or not in here. I got testy for sure
      No problem. It happens.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    13. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 10:07 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      -I'm not an AGW denier. Whether Stack considers himself to be is up to him.
      I don't know how to define myself. I am HIGHLY skeptical of the motivations behind the movement; it seems highly interesting that the ways to "solve" GW are to tax and control. I am also highly attuned to the fact that there is a massive amount of hypocrisy in the "good for me but not for thee" movement, just look at that conference where a zillion people flew in private jets to meet to talk about climate change. I also think there is a ton of symbolistic garbage used as ammunition to attack whatever people don't like; I drive a gas-guzzling Jeep, but I drive it 10 miles a day. But put me next to a dude driving a Prius 50 miles a day, and they will attack me and laud him. It's nonsensical, it's posturing and virtue signaling.

      So basically I live my life in a way that reflects we need to help the environment; I don't burn a lot of gas, I live in a small house with highly efficient HVAC and appliances, I don't fly that often, we recycle, etc etc. But because I'm not out there yelling about the environment, I get less credibility than guys like Gore and Obama and Leo that live like they DON'T need to save the environment, but yell that we do. Again, hypocrisy. And let's face it, "carbon credits" are just modern-day indulgences.

      Where that puts me, I don't know. Live cleanly, but let's not be ridiculous. And if you think something is truly a problem, act that way, or I think society should completely write you off.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      09-11-2019 10:17 AM #63
      I am HIGHLY skeptical of the motivations behind the movement

    15. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 10:24 AM #64
      That picture has always been bull****. More taxes, more regulations, more efforts to intrude on the daily lives of Americans is not a "better world" in my book.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      09-11-2019 10:37 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      That picture has always been bull****. More taxes, more regulations, more efforts to intrude on the daily lives of Americans is not a "better world" in my book.
      So why aren't you speaking out against tariffs?

    17. Junior Member
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      09-11-2019 10:37 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      That picture has always been bull****. More taxes, more regulations, more efforts to intrude on the daily lives of Americans is not a "better world" in my book.
      Is quality of life tied to the amount of regulations and taxes ? I always thought that not dying from preventable lung disease ( *cough*look at what car i drive*cough* ) would lower quality of life.

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      09-11-2019 10:38 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      So why aren't you speaking out against tariffs?
      He is pro tariffs?

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      09-11-2019 10:40 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      He is pro tariffs?
      He seems to be supportive of regulations and taxes when it suits him and his political views.

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      09-11-2019 10:46 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      He seems to be supportive of regulations and taxes when it suits him and his political views.
      Nice, another conservative snowflake, I found this quote from The_Real_Stack :

      What's important to remember is that tariffs are not intended to be a long term thing. The idea is that other countries (notably China) impose healthy tariffs on some of our goods, so Trump ratcheted up the tariffs on their goods to use as a negotiating ploy to drive theirs down. I am not super read into it, but I know he has actually made some progress on getting other markets to open up a bit more to us. So the idea is some short term pain for long term economic gains for the US.
      So you want short time pain for a trade war, but you dont want short term pain for changing the way we produce electric power, how we drive or how we live our lives ?

    21. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 11:09 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      So you want short time pain for a trade war, but you dont want short term pain for changing the way we produce electric power, how we drive or how we live our lives ?
      I don't think that's the case with him and it definitely isn't for me. I think making things cleaner and adding less CO2 is great, but carbon credits and control are not how we get there. That is about control and moving money around.

      Politics and science are intertwined, although people like to think they are not. This isn't a view that denies science, it's a view that sees motivation as a potential factor and would like it removed, although it's probably never going to be.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    22. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 11:17 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      Nice, another conservative snowflake, I found this quote from The_Real_Stack :
      Thanks for digging that quote up, I didn't want to have to go back and explain it again.


      So you want short time pain for a trade war, but you dont want short term pain for changing the way we produce electric power, how we drive or how we live our lives ?
      How in the world do you think "how we drive or live our lives" is going to be short term pain? Ever read the GND? It's an entire restructuring of our lives.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    23. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 11:20 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by loyfah View Post
      So you want short time pain for a trade war, but you dont want short term pain for changing the way we produce electric power, how we drive or how we live our lives ?
      How exactly is your country financing that green lifestyle again?

      Oh, right.... sucking the earth dry of fossil fuels and selling them to other people who will burn them.

      Not really much ground to stand your condescension on.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

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    24. Member
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      09-11-2019 11:30 AM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      How exactly is your country financing that green lifestyle again?

      Oh, right.... sucking the earth dry of fossil fuels and selling them to other people who will burn them.

      Not really much ground to stand your condescension on.
      At least Norway has long-term plans to wean off of oil, which can't be said for other oil-exporting nations.

    25. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 11:35 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      At least Norway has long-term plans to wean off of oil, which can't be said for other oil-exporting nations.
      Nevertheless the point stands. They're making lots of money selling the wares that are held in disdain by greenies.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    26. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      09-11-2019 11:35 AM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by DUBPL8 View Post
      At least Norway has long-term plans to wean off of oil, which can't be said for other oil-exporting nations.
      They better hope that other nations keep buying and burning their oil, or the whole system won't sustain.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

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