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    1. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 10:56 AM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post

      As for cost, well it's a Porsche. You pay the Porsche tax if you want a Porsche, period. All those people thinking this thing would be cheap were dillusional.
      I don't tend to price shop Porsches, so I didn't realize that Panamaras can go over $200k in Canada. So yeah, wishing for a $100K Taycan was always a pipe dream.

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    3. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:06 AM #102
      The situation in EVs sort of reminds me of the iphone circa 2009-10. Every new manufacturer trotted out its "iphone killer", but every one was a mild or medium disappointment on at least one front. It took a few years for competitors to coalesce around android and produce phones that were truly competitive alternatives.

      The Taycan does seem quite nice, and there are some important developments there (especially the 800v platform), but it appears to be far from a Tesla killer, and more of an expansion of the EV niche into a more luxurious space. It will cannibalize some P100D sales, but I think Tesla and Porsche will mostly exist independently of eachother.

      On an unrelated note, it seems to me it's high time Rolls/Bently do an EV. The smooth silence of an electric motor seems tailor made for the ultralux market, and any reasonable EV range is sufficient to get your chauffeur from the pick up point to your private jet.

    4. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:14 AM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      Honestly, the Tesla just lets me down too much in the looks department. Especially in the interior. Just way too boring in there.

      I wish Audi would buy the Model 3 'skateboard' and make a gorgeous looking sedan.
      Found your next car to wait 2 years for and maybe not buy:




    5. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:25 AM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by Hajduk View Post
      I don't tend to price shop Porsches, so I didn't realize that Panamaras can go over $200k in Canada. So yeah, wishing for a $100K Taycan was always a pipe dream.
      Considering that a Panamera Turbo's base price is within $300 of a Taycan Turbo, and you can get a base Panamera for just under $100k, I don't think it's a stretch to expect a base Taycan to come in under $110k or so.

    6. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:28 AM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
      Except for the fact that Porsche is ultra conservative with their numbers. I have no doubt that it will match or beat a P100D in a drag race - at least the Turbo S version will.

      I suspect the efficiency could be under rated too but that remains to be seen.
      I do agree on conservative performance numbers. Doing my own timing with the FullCharged Video posted in the other thread seems like the Taycan will eat the Model S in the quarter-mile. My guess it will match it to 60 and smash the quarter mile race. But I do not believe it on efficiency. I think Tesla motors are that much more ahead in efficiency. Its that black magic Sandy Munroe keeps referencing. No one exactly knows how it's so good.

      I only bring up efficiency though because it affects that range measure. No one is adding a 200kwh battery pack yet. So seeing that range on paper will be reflected by consumer support. EV skeptics want over 300 miles of range to feel comfortable. Imagine Tesla breaking 500 miles with the Maxwell tech? I doubt this car will do 250.
      Slow Car Fast

    7. 09-05-2019 11:31 AM #106
      Slight problem, Tesla S high-end:

      $120K
      300+ miles range
      2.3 sec 0-60

      This will be interesting to see how high-end guys justify 60% higher pricing for the same performance.

    8. 09-05-2019 11:33 AM #107
      "Turbo starts at $152,250, Turbo S is $186,350. Base, S, 4S, etc. models will come in the near future, as will the Cross Turismo wagon."

      Kinda not seeing where a base will even see <$130K.

    9. Senior Member Ryukein's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:35 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      So I've just called my dealership to refund my deposit. Hawc out!

      The four year dream is over.
      I can't wait for the base Taycan to come out and for you to put down a deposit again

      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      Slight problem, Tesla S high-end:

      $120K
      300+ miles range
      2.3 sec 0-60

      This will be interesting to see how high-end guys justify 60% higher pricing for the same performance.
      A 911 Turbo is quicker to 60 than a McLaren 720S, which is almost twice the price. How do those high-end guys justify the higher pricing for the same performance?

      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      "Turbo starts at $152,250, Turbo S is $186,350. Base, S, 4S, etc. models will come in the near future, as will the Cross Turismo wagon."

      Kinda not seeing where a base will even see <$130K.
      Less power, fewer driven wheels, fewer standard features... Maybe even a smaller battery pack (although I doubt that one)
      Quote Originally Posted by ClothSeats View Post
      In after Ryukein seal of approval.
      Quote Originally Posted by Carson Fiber View Post
      Get a life already Loser
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    10. Member Hajduk's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:35 AM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      Slight problem, Tesla S high-end:

      $120K
      300+ miles range
      2.3 sec 0-60

      This will be interesting to see how high-end guys justify 60% higher pricing for the same performance.
      Performance is more than 0-60

    11. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 11:50 AM #110
      Love the configurator is live already:
      http://www.porsche-code.com/PLP8Z4R7





      Porsche Taycan Turbo
      Frozen Blue Metallic | Graphite Blue Race-Tex with 18-Way Adaptive Sport Seats

      Porsche Exclusive
      LED-Matrix Design Headlights in Glacier Blue incl. Porsche Dynamic Light System Plus

      Options
      Power Folding Exterior Mirrors
      Porsche Electric Sport Sound
      Porsche Ceramic Composite Brakes (PCCB) with Calipers in Yellow
      21" Mission E Design Wheels with All-Season Tires
      Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest
      Fixed Panoramic Roof in Glass
      Porsche InnoDrive incl. Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC)
      Night Vision Assist
      Steering Wheel Heating i.c.w. Race-Tex Interior
      Interior Accents in Dark Silver
      Interior Trim in Paldao
      Fire Extinguisher
      Ski Bag
      Rear 2+1 Seats
      Advanced 4-Zone Climate Control
      Passenger Display
      Power Charge Port Cover
      On-Board 150 kW/400V DC Charger
      Porsche Intelligent Range Manager
      Mobile Charger Connect
      Porsche Charging Dock for the Porsche Universal Charger (AC)

      No Charge
      "electric" Logo on Front Doors in High Gloss Silver
      Smoking Package
      Door-Sill Guards in Black Brushed Aluminum
      Last edited by ice4life; 09-05-2019 at 11:57 AM.

    12. 09-05-2019 12:00 PM #111
      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      Slight problem, Tesla S high-end:

      $120K
      300+ miles range
      2.3 sec 0-60

      This will be interesting to see how high-end guys justify 60% higher pricing for the same performance.
      See Chris Harris tweets in regards to this exact subject. He makes some very good points.

    13. 09-05-2019 12:01 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      Love the configurator is live already:
      http://www.porsche-code.com/PLP8Z4R7
      Just looking at the car you specced out has me justifying the added costs over the Model S in my head lol. Beautiful.

      So is that a matte paint colour?

    14. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 12:19 PM #113
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
      Just looking at the car you specced out has me justifying the added costs over the Model S in my head lol. Beautiful.

      So is that a matte paint colour?
      That is a metallic paint color, and unlike Tesla, all metallic and flat paint is $0 charge. The only upcharge is for a "special paint" color. Someone said it earlier in the thread. Speed is not the only parameter of performance. If this thing truly out-performs the Model S, maybe there is something to it after all.

      Not to mention, you get a hell of a lot more in the way of customization, and in the way of tech. For example, there are no matrix lights, passenger display, night vision, ceramic brakes, or 4 wheel steering anywhere to be found on a Tesla. And when it comes to the interior customization, give me a break. The porsche is hands down more customizable. Particularly with the Porsche Exclusive options which are straight from the factory.

    15. 09-05-2019 12:22 PM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      I think Tesla motors are that much more ahead in efficiency. Its that black magic Sandy Munroe keeps referencing. No one exactly knows how it's so good.
      Everything can be reverse engineered with enough time and money. Plus didn't Tesla allow the use of all their patents to everybody for free?

    16. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 12:51 PM #115
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      Honestly, the Tesla just lets me down too much in the looks department. Especially in the interior. Just way too boring in there.

      I wish Audi would buy the Model 3 'skateboard' and make a gorgeous looking sedan.
      Agree, I have to imagine more than one company has tried to make that deal.

      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      Slight problem, Tesla S high-end:

      $120K
      300+ miles range
      2.3 sec 0-60

      This will be interesting to see how high-end guys justify 60% higher pricing for the same performance.
      Lots of shoppers already justify Porsches over an equal performance Corvette that cost half as much, this is no different.

      This is where/why I don't think they are competitors. The Porsche will offer a ton more customization, luxury, and options. Wait until the Model S goes to that "simple" (read "cheap") single center screen dash of the Model 3. The Tesla steering wheels look like they are from my kid's PS4. The Model S is simply not the fully realized, high quality, beautifully designed and assembled luxury supercar that the Taycan appears to be.

      Tesla's bread and butter is their tech and efficiency. Porsche is going after a more luxurious performance buyer.

      It is also producing on-track results like a Porsche, repeatedly, whereas the Teslas are great to show off a Ludicrous™ 0-60 once or twice before turning down the wick.

      I don't mean that as a slag on the Model S, just that, TO ME, it illustrates that these really are not competitors, despite everyone trying desperately to make them so.

      Last edited by Sporin; 09-05-2019 at 01:05 PM.

    17. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 01:07 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      That is a metallic paint color, and unlike Tesla, all metallic and flat paint is $0 charge. The only upcharge is for a "special paint" color.
      I.e. the colors people will want. Porsche has always been good at that.

      Someone said it earlier in the thread. Speed is not the only parameter of performance. If this thing truly out-performs the Model S, maybe there is something to it after all.
      Do Teslas handle badly? I didn't think so from the ones I've driven. Low CG, performance tires, and AWD makes for some brutal ability in the twisties. Yes, early ones had issues with track days and Ludicrous mode can only be use a couple time before needing a recharge and serious cooling. But normal performance in a P100D is nothing to be sneezed at, either. And the Model 3Pis even better for even less money. And in te EV world, performance is more than thos numbers, too, its range and recharging network and the Model S (and 3) have more range even at similar performance levels.


      Not to mention, you get a hell of a lot more in the way of customization, and in the way of tech.
      For the upcharge, you'd better.


      For example, there are no matrix lights, passenger display, night vision, ceramic brakes, or 4 wheel steering anywhere to be found on a Tesla.
      As to the last two, do you really need them? Most of the "braking" is done by the motor under regen, so even performance Teslas have not been bad for braking ability. And I'm not sold on 4 wheel steering, not even in the cars that used to have it. I actually removed the passive RWS from my RX7 as it could be unpredictable in autocross.

      And when it comes to the interior customization, give me a break. The porsche is hands down more customizable. Particularly with the Porsche Exclusive options which are straight from the factory.

      And again, for the upcharge, it better.

      Basic bottom line: the base Taycan won't have a lot of the stuff of the Turbo or Turbo S, and thus will only be a competitor for the Model S in price, but will lose out on range and performance at that price. The Turbo and Turbo S won't compete with the Tesla any more than a McLaren 720 competes with a Cayman.


      I like the Taycan (and hopefully the E-Tron GT will be as true to its concept, as well). And in some ways I like it more than the Model S. BUT lets get real. In order to have Porsche quality and Tesla performance(including range and efficiency), you have to spend a LOT of coin. Tesla is building the American Muscle of EVs. Blistering performance, decent style, and kind of cheap build quality. But it's working. And they are ahead in the EV game quit a bit and look to be staying that way. No one seems to be leap-frogging them (and I was hoping the Taycan would).
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    18. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 01:10 PM #117
      OMG, there is a non-leather, interior option with a special name!! This is really going to trigger some TCL'ers.

      Leather Interior / Leather Seats

      Race-Tex Interior (Leather-Free)

      Olea Club Leather Interior
      Fancy words for Pleather? HOW DARE THEY!?!?!


    19. Member
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      09-05-2019 01:10 PM #118
      I have been anxious to see the real auto manufacturers come out with a serious Tesla competitor, and have been repeatedly let down by efficiency and performance that's behind a six year old car from Tesla.

      Now Porsche comes in with tech that while way behind on efficiency is equal if not better than Tesla. Problem is it's 60% more in the versions they have revealed. I'm waiting to see the $100k version to see it's performance and range vs the top end Tesla that give 340 miles and 2.4 sec 0-60.

      Love the 2 speed transmission however.

      Anyways I guess we'll have to wait until the LA auto show to see the closer priced versions, or for the Audi version.

      The real question is when is the $40-50k EV coming from a large scale auto manufacturer?

    20. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 01:23 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      OMG, there is a non-leather, interior option with a special name!! This is really going to trigger some TCL'ers.

      Fancy words for Pleather? HOW DARE THEY!?!?!
      race-tex isn't "pleather," or leatherette as it is called in the industry. It is a suede like material like alcantara or escaine.

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      09-05-2019 01:24 PM #120
      Quote Originally Posted by vwwtchr View Post
      I have been anxious to see the real auto manufacturers come out with a serious Tesla competitor, and have been repeatedly let down by efficiency and performance that's behind a six year old car from Tesla.

      Now Porsche comes in with tech that while way behind on efficiency is equal if not better than Tesla. Problem is it's 60% more in the versions they have revealed. I'm waiting to see the $100k version to see it's performance and range vs the top end Tesla that give 340 miles and 2.4 sec 0-60.

      Love the 2 speed transmission however.

      Anyways I guess we'll have to wait until the LA auto show to see the closer priced versions, or for the Audi version.

      The real question is when is the $40-50k EV coming from a large scale auto manufacturer?
      The Chevy Bolt is already here.

      The VW ID.3 debuts soon.

    22. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 01:37 PM #121
      Slow Car Fast

    23. Member col.mustard's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 01:48 PM #122
      it's about $120,000 over my budget, so i'll add this to the "more than you can afford, pal" list. Looks cool, except for those DONK-style-white-lip wheels. I'm sure we'll see many business execs in these around DC and CA. I wood NOT keep if given one (WOOD keep manual 991).



      ::puts flame suit on:: Rant/
      The only reason (for me personally) to purchase an EV is to be more environmentally conscience. Although the leather-free interior is a great step in the right direction, i highly doubt this vehicle and the amount of rare earth materials in it cuts down on overall "cradle to grave" carbon footprint at all. maaaaaybe it's marginally better than the business execs lumbering around in an M5/M6? It exists in an even more elevated space as the top trim Model S and X, which are all upper class people showing off their money (or tesla-stretching) and pretending to actually give a sh!t about the environment (IMO). In the same way that Al Gore told us all how we needed to compost our food scraps and toilet paper and change our lives because of global warming, when he himself had no problem jetting all around the world (while telling us not to) and heating his 10,070sqft mansion and pool (which uses 20-34 times the national average power: During all of 2016, Gore devoured 66,159 kWh of electricity just heating his pool; enough energy to power six average U.S. households for a year). I imagine most everyone who has $150k-$242k to blow on a Taycan Turbo S, also has an 8,000+sqft home and vacation home, multiple other cars with full-leather interiors, and a whole host of consumer goods and environmentally un-friendly lifestyle products. these cars make about as much sense as performance CUVs, to me. /Rant
      Last edited by col.mustard; 09-05-2019 at 01:50 PM.
      praise the lowered
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    24. 09-05-2019 01:52 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryukein View Post
      I can't wait for the base Taycan to come out and for you to put down a deposit again
      Thought crossed my mind, but honestly even that will almost definitely be over $100K CDN and it'll be RWD. I want AWD so there's no way I'll ever get a Taycan under six figures CDN. Ah well, on to the Audi E-Tron...

    25. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 02:06 PM #124
      Quote Originally Posted by ice4life View Post
      race-tex isn't "pleather," or leatherette as it is called in the industry. It is a suede like material like alcantara or escaine.
      Oh I know what it is, I was being facetious because of the "Vegan Interior" thread discussion.

      Though to be ridiculously precise, Alcantara is just another petrochemical product like "vinyl." They are both "plastic" alternatives to animal leather.

      Alcantara is the brand name of a common synthetic textile material. It has a soft, suede-like microfiber pile and is noted for its durability. Alcantara is commonly seen in automotive applications, as a substitute for leather and vinyl in vehicle interior trim. It is also used in the design, fashion, consumer electronics and marine industries. ...

      Alcantara is composed of about 68% polyester and 32% polyurethane,[2] giving increased durability and stain resistance. The appearance and tactile feel of the material is similar to that of suede, and it may be identified as such.

    26. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      09-05-2019 02:11 PM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      Thought crossed my mind, but honestly even that will almost definitely be over $100K CDN and it'll be RWD. I want AWD so there's no way I'll ever get a Taycan under six figures CDN. Ah well, on to the Audi E-Tron...
      I just priced the lowest E-Tron I could, which starts at $74,800 USD. I added two things, the driver assist package and cold weather package. It's $79,900 USD after options, destination, etc.

      That's $105,000 CAD. That's just for the Premium Plus, the Prestige starts at $81,800 USD. The only option I had to add with the Prestige was the cold weather package as it comes with driver assist. It came out to $84,290 USD.

      Good luck!
      Last edited by Cabin Pics; 09-05-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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