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    1. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-22-2019 12:41 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Yeah, no. Ford phoned this one in. It's basically a trim package with a powerful engine.
      My main point was that no, it's not particularly sporting
      ...but I'm not so sure it's even them "phoning it in." You can basically exchange an Explorer ST road test for a Durango SRT one or GLS63. There's only so much you can do to improve the handling of this class of vehicle.

      Why?
      Because if we leave emotion out of it what we have here is a car that’s terrifically good at acquiring speed, but much less good at losing it. That actually has too much power for its chassis to deal with (although compared with a G55 it’s a ballet dancer). That returns 17mpg without any semblance of sportiness.
      The handling is vague because it weighs 2.6 tonnes before you put anything inside. Add a few family members and you’re looking at three tons heaving along a B-road. You’ll soon learn that you have to tighten the suspension up into Sport or Sport+ just to prop it up through corners that you’ll have had difficulty slowing down for in the first place.
      https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/...to/first-drive

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    3. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 12:42 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      Well, the first review is in for the Lincoln Aviator PHEV...turns out it's more like Mercedes S600 than BMW X3M.
      Why would you expect something the size of X7 be anything like the X3M?

      Also, the article is somewhat misguided. Volvo XC90 T8 is clearly not the competitor that Lincoln had in mind. Beside the obvious size difference (XC90 is midsize while Aviator is large size... over 5 meters long), Aviator GT with its 500hp and crazy torque number is clearly aimed at the V8 competitors like X7 50i and GLS550.

    4. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 12:44 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      Not because of the models that tried to out-Euro the Europeans (ATS, CTS) though. I think that's his point.
      Exactly.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    5. Chili Bigot Seabird's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 12:45 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      You agree you can't bend the laws of physics, so why do you think a giant Lincoln SUV would be "Performance" like an X3M just because it has high horsepower? That's literally like expecting a 750i to perform like an M3 and being disappointed that it doesn't... that's the size and weight gap between the two.
      Exactly. The Aviator is meant to be a lux-forward vehicle. The autoblog article is frustrating in that they reviewed it with the wrong perspective and then criticizing it for not meeting a requirement for which it was never intended to meet. And then to double-down on that criticism by concluding it will fail to draw in younger buyers is .

      The thing was will keep younger buyers away is the price.
      "First, I'm going to go down on you real slow and make you happy. Then I'm going climb up and fvck you hard." - Gas Prices

    6. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 12:59 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Why would you expect something the size of X7 be anything like the X3M?

      Also, the article is somewhat misguided. Volvo XC90 T8 is clearly not the competitor that Lincoln had in mind. Beside the obvious size difference (XC90 is midsize while Aviator is large size... over 5 meters long), Aviator GT with its 500hp and crazy torque number is clearly aimed at the V8 competitors like X7 50i and GLS550.
      I'm quite upset that a Rolls Royce Phantom can't lap the Nürburgring in under 8 minutes.

    7. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 01:39 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      My main point was that no, it's not particularly sporting
      ...but I'm not so sure it's even them "phoning it in." You can basically exchange an Explorer ST road test for a Durango SRT one or GLS63. There's only so much you can do to improve the handling of this class of vehicle.
      Lol, those cars will destroy the ST beyond just acceleration. The Jeep is a RWD biased AWD system with an electronic rear LSD, it's got better brakes, fully adjustable suspension, and MUCH bigger tires. The seating is certainly more aggressive as well. I don't know all the details on the MB, but it's got similar attributed. The ST is a notch down from the SRT or AMG. It's basically like the Audi S4 is to something like a M340.

    8. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 02:10 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      The ST is a notch down from the SRT or AMG. It's basically like the Audi S4 is to something like a M340.
      HEY!
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    9. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 02:13 PM #83
      Nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to say the Aviator looks amazing. A bold grille that's not oversized, undersized or complex, and a RR inspired roofline. I've said it before but Chevrolet's corporate styling sucks, Cadillac's is somewhat better but far from perfect.

      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Well they have the Durango over on the Dodge side as far as having expensive 3-row SUV covered, and they have the Trailcat Grand Cherokee as far as expensive ridiculously high horsepower SUVs are concerned, albeit 2-row, but I think the Grand Wagoneer is their answer in terms of a Jeep badged vehicle that might be considered competition in the 3-row luxury SUV space. It just isn't out yet, with expectations for a 2022 launch.
      Hasn't the launch for the 3 row Jeep been pushed back like, 4 years?? I feel like I've been aware of it's eventual release for 5 years, maybe longer.
      I gave up dailing old and rare cars and became a normie.
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      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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    10. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-22-2019 02:18 PM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Lol, those cars will destroy the ST beyond just acceleration. The Jeep is a RWD biased AWD system with an electronic rear LSD, it's got better brakes, fully adjustable suspension, and MUCH bigger tires. The seating is certainly more aggressive as well. I don't know all the details on the MB, but it's got similar attributed. The ST is a notch down from the SRT or AMG. It's basically like the Audi S4 is to something like a M340.
      Durango, not Jeep. And even though they're faster and more powerful than the Explorer ST or base Aviator, they also get dinged (GLS more than Durango) for being porky handlers that can't hide their weight, which is my point.

    11. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      08-22-2019 03:13 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
      Durango, not Jeep. .
      Other than size, they're the same vehicle underneath.

    12. Member 2 doors's Avatar
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      08-23-2019 05:03 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to say the Aviator looks amazing. A bold grille that's not oversized, undersized or complex, and a RR inspired roofline.
      Agreed. One pulled out in front of me as I passed the Ford/Lincoln dealer last night. Definitely exudes luxury by not being overwrought. If I actually wanted a luxury SUV (and not a sporty SUV), I’d be checking this out ahead of the Germans.

    13. Member
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      08-23-2019 08:09 AM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to say the Aviator looks amazing. A bold grille that's not oversized, undersized or complex, and a RR inspired roofline.
      I really like Lincoln's new styling direction.
      I will admit that when it initially debuted on the refreshed MKC and MKZ, I thought it borrowed too heavily from current Jaguars.
      The Aviator looks great and wears this styling language well, but since the Nautilus debuted before it, a lot of the impact is lost because I am used to seeing the Nautilus.

    14. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      12-09-2019 11:04 PM #88
      https://www.motor1.com/news/386903/l...uring-economy/

      Hybrid mode numbers aren’t that great, but in practice fueling costs could be minimal if you can keep within the EV range.

      Frickin expensive tho.

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      12-10-2019 05:46 AM #89
      HMMMM not even a fan of the X3 but i will admit I doubt the lincoln will sound anywhere near as good as the exhaust on the bmw

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      12-10-2019 08:39 AM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      https://www.motor1.com/news/386903/l...uring-economy/

      Hybrid mode numbers aren’t that great, but in practice fueling costs could be minimal if you can keep within the EV range.

      Frickin expensive tho.
      These hybrid numbers look fantastic.

      Quote Originally Posted by motor1
      It’s also important to note that this luxury SUV is quite powerful. The EcoBoost V6 and electric powertrain combine to deliver 494 horsepower (368 kilowatts) and a mountain of low-end torque – 630 pound-feet (854 Newton-meters) to be exact. Yes, the elegant SUV is exceedingly heavy at close to three tons, but it can still hit 60 mph in roughly 5.5 seconds. That’s not bad for anything capable of carrying more than two people, and the Aviator Grand Touring can actually haul seven.

    17. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      12-10-2019 09:56 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Sonderwunsch View Post
      These hybrid numbers look fantastic.
      Sorry, I meant the MPG numbers. It's a heavy ass car so not entirely unexpected.

      I wonder what the delta in electric charging cost would be between this and something like a Prius Prime if both were driven exclusively on battery.

    18. Member ice4life's Avatar
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      12-10-2019 09:59 AM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post

      Hasn't the launch for the 3 row Jeep been pushed back like, 4 years?? I feel like I've been aware of it's eventual release for 5 years, maybe longer.
      The 3 row Grand Cherokee WL is debuting in 21'. It's the bof wagoneer/grand wagoneer that is going to take some time.

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      12-10-2019 10:00 AM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Sorry, I meant the MPG numbers. It's a heavy ass car so not entirely unexpected.

      I wonder what the delta in electric charging cost would be between this and something like a Prius Prime if both were driven exclusively on battery.
      The acceleration numbers aren't great either, especially compared to the competition. But like you said it's heavy and not entirely unexpected.
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