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    1. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 04:07 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      It's ugly from all angles, but hideous from the rear...
      Only the slower cars get that view reserved for them.
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

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    3. Member
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      08-12-2019 04:16 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      Only the slower cars get that view reserved for them.


      in all honesty, the CTR has grown on me looks wise. Maybe im just used to the 'garish' styling but I kinda like it now. I never thought they were very photogenic cars though...much better looking in person imo. The black one the guy posted looks tacky, there are much better examples out there.

    4. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 04:18 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by badsmell View Post
      much better looking in person imo.
      This. Once you see what it does from behind the wheel, you tend to forget the origami'ness of it.
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

    5. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 04:21 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      This. Once you see what it does from behind the wheel, you tend to forget the origami'ness of it.
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    6. Member QUIRKiT's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 05:17 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      While Veloster N is nowhere in the same league with the Golf R performance wise, you save almost $14K in MSRP. That's roughly $280 a month difference.

      You can go lease another GTI for $280 a month that you saved from buying a Veloster N if you have a buyer's remorse afterwards. Golf R would be tougher to buy as dealers aren't in a hurry to move them. I don't know about Hyundai though.

      You can't find a better performance deal for $27,400, cheap plasticky interior or not. Go for it OP.
      I'm not comparing new-to-new, I would have to buy a Mk7 R ('16 or '17 preferred).

      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      You don't need any of those things for anything short of a track car. I'm just saying that it's worth exploring if you already liked the lighter, simpler, cheaper car (lobster N vs Golf R)... You can get an even lighter, simpler, and cheaper car on the exact same chassis and still tuned for fun over economy.

      I don't drive triple digits or run into brake fade on public roads though so I'm not the average TCL poster.
      I definitely don't do triple digits or experience brake fade on public roads, but the HPDE's and auto-x events I plan on attending will require the capabilities to deal with either of those. From everything I understand the VN just needs some different pad material and fluid to make it a track monster.

      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post
      Local Honda dealers are still charging $3,000 "adjusted market value" for Civic Type R. At least VW dealer will charge you MSRP for a Golf R.



      Do you get the crackle and pop with the regular Veloster N? Or do you get the crackle and pop exhaust only with performance package?
      All the CTR's around here are heavily marked up, which is another reason I'm staying away. I haven't driven one but I feel like for a $9k difference I could make the VN just as fast.

      Quote Originally Posted by Spike Ti View Post
      Idk if you read this article then made this thread or they read your thread and wrote this article: https://jalopnik.com/why-pick-a-2019...e-r-1837053934
      HAH! Great timing.

      Quote Originally Posted by adam1991 View Post
      in each of the VN and CTR, you always look like you're trying to re-live The Fast and the Bi-Curious.

      In the Golf family, all the way to Golf R, you look...like you're driving a Golf. That's right, Mr. Officer, just tooling home from work here. Nothing to see, move along...
      Yeah, everything except the Golf is very boyracer. The VN is less boyracer than the CTR at least and can be made even less garish if you black vinyl the red accents -- which I fully plan on doing.

      Quote Originally Posted by YukonCornelius View Post
      Assuming you get a CTR for msrp, which you can, unless you're really lazy. The increased cost will be nullified by wayyyyyyy better residual compared to the N.

      The CTR is a special car, the N is a hyundai. Sorry, I'm being a snob but after driving the two, there was no comparison. The CTR is bigger, more refined, and pulls harder. The N was fun yes, but actually a bit too edgy for what I wanted. I wouldn't want to daily it, but I've realized I'm a pansy with these cool ideas of "manual fun cars" as cars for day to day driving (I've been ruined by tesla . )

      For what its worth, the CTR, and probably the N too, is actually too capable for the street. Seriously its ridiculous how fast you can go through turns, brake, etc....

      If you want something raw, get the N. The golf R is not raw, you will get bored with its jack of all trades mentality, but if you can learn to appreciate how good it is at everything, not much else (actually nothing) will beat it for its overall street car capability. The N and CTR are race cars in comparison, seriously. Very, very, different cars.
      I guess with the number of lowered cars I've owned, especially the cheaply done ones (raceland coilovers anyone?), I felt like the VN rode really nicely for how "performance oriented" it is. I even thought while test driving it that all the people that complained about how rough the ride was even in normal mode must be wimps or have really bad backs.

      My biggest concern this entire time, even when I thought I was deadset on the Golf R, has been will I be entertained enough? I know the Golf R is a great all-arounder and I'm sure it would be satisfying but I feel like there's not a big enough difference between (other than power and suspension) my GSW TDI and it. The early Mk7 R's are basically the same front end and same interior as a GSW SEL(what I have) and I feel like it won't be a big enough difference to make it feel "special."

      Quote Originally Posted by chois View Post
      Ah - so you mispronounce Mark 7 as Emm Kay 7....

      When I was 14, yes.

      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      This. Once you see what it does from behind the wheel, you tend to forget the origami'ness of it.
      Even my boring as eff GSW I still look back at when I walk away, especially when it's clean, so I won't forget just how ugly my vehicle is if I own a CTR.
      Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Dreadz View Post
      This place is going to hell on a Thule roof rack.

    7. Member johnny_p's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 05:21 PM #31
      I'd go with the Lobster.

      Actually I'd go with a CTR at MSRP but to each their own.
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    8. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 05:22 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post
      Even my boring as eff GSW I still look back at when I walk away, especially when it's clean, so I won't forget just how ugly my vehicle is if I own a CTR.
      I did a track-day/project with Graham Rahal a little over a year ago at Road Atlanta and his words were something along the line of:

      "It might be ugly, but you just got beat by an ugly car"
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

    9. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 05:27 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by johnny_p View Post
      I'd go with the Lobster.
      Over the horseshoe crab? You must be jokin?
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      08-12-2019 05:55 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by Uber Wagon View Post

      Do you get the crackle and pop with the regular Veloster N? Or do you get the crackle and pop exhaust only with performance package?

      Yes, crackle and pop on both trims. Main difference is the sound. The base N is more raspy, whereas the performance package exhaust sounds deeper. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Ol4LWSz1JDI

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      08-12-2019 08:00 PM #35
      I personally can't imaging getting bored of a Golf R. I'm not bored of my Alltrack and that's a wayyyyy more boring car than an R. I think the trick with the R is if you like it on a test drive you'll keep liking it. I test drove a 6MT 2019 R a month ago and was floored by the capabilities of the car, cornered like it was on rails and zero drama as it rocketed from a stop our out of corners. I get the "it's too mature criticism", it is super composed, unflappable, just goes fast with no drama. The MKVII GTI I drove had way more drama than the R, spinning front tires, tail out on tight corners, but I'd rather have the R as the GTI just can't get the power down below 60kph.

      Back to the OP, why are you looking for something practical if you are keeping the wagon? What about getting a pure sports car for fun times if you have the space for another car and the time to enjoy it?

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      08-12-2019 08:11 PM #36
      Oh, if you're actually going to track the car then get the Type R or maaaaaaaaybe the lobster N. I thought you were just looking for a fun commuter. Golf R is no track car.

    13. Member Ttone74's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 08:16 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA View Post
      I personally can't imaging getting bored of a Golf R. I'm not bored of my Alltrack and that's a wayyyyy more boring car than an R. I think the trick with the R is if you like it on a test drive you'll keep liking it. I test drove a 6MT 2019 R a month ago and was floored by the capabilities of the car, cornered like it was on rails and zero drama as it rocketed from a stop our out of corners. I get the "it's too mature criticism", it is super composed, unflappable, just goes fast with no drama. The MKVII GTI I drove had way more drama than the R, spinning front tires, tail out on tight corners, but I'd rather have the R as the GTI just can't get the power down below 60kph.

      I just recently got an R, and my wife and I love it! It is in a league above of the N, IMO. It does everything a car needs to. With DCC and all of the modes, you can create a custom mode that changes like 8 different aspects of the car. You can feel the difference of every change, and it is amazing tech! Worth every penny

      Do yourself a favor and go test drive a Golf R.


      GolfR by Tommy Ttone, on Flickr

      GolfR by Tommy Ttone, on Flickr

      #pearl the #mk7.5 #golfR #vw by Tommy Ttone, on Flickr
      Last edited by Ttone74; 08-12-2019 at 08:20 PM.
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      08-12-2019 08:40 PM #38
      I had a test drive in the N, R and GTI on the same day not so long ago. From a pure driving pleasure experience, the N had a whole lot going for it and I was very pleasantly surprised. But it's a designated replacement of my wife's 340ix daily and I think she'd vastly prefer a VW, especially since the mkv GTI is her all-time favorite car we've owned and the lack of heated seats in the N. As it stands, the R is the clear front runner. For the more raw driving experience I'm thinking an additional vehicle that's a bit more raw and inspiring than the N: definitely RWD, two doors, manual and non-daily.

      OP: definitely not crazy!

    15. Member Ttone74's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 08:47 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Duvel View Post
      I had a test drive in the N, R and GTI on the same day not so long ago. From a pure driving pleasure experience, the N had a whole lot going for it and I was very pleasantly surprised. But it's a designated replacement of my wife's 340ix daily and I think she'd vastly prefer a VW, especially since the mkv GTI is her all-time favorite car we've owned and the lack of heated seats in the N. As it stands, the R is the clear front runner. For the more raw driving experience I'm thinking an additional vehicle that's a bit more raw and inspiring than the N: definitely RWD, two doors, manual and non-daily.

      OP: definitely not crazy!
      My wife has basically stolen mine and drives it 5 days a week. She loves it. I guess that means she approves
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    16. Junior Member s55b30's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:48 PM #40
      Only buy the R if you're going DSG and that gearbox makes a difference in the purchase thought process. I've had 2 bolt-on MK7 and they're both spectacular. Owned pretty much everything at this point within reason, and absolutely love the N over the R. I've had zero regrets. With the adjustable dampers and exhaust (independent of all other drive modes) you can turn the thing into a quiet, comfortable daily and go full crazy with the press of a button. It has a ton of personality the Mk7 just doesn't, and I have learned to get over the 3-door life and just enjoy the drive every day.

      *With that said, if I was still commuting in downtown Boston, I'd be in a DSG R right now. But, living off of backroads made the N well worth it.

      Also, don't buy without PP. Just don't.

    17. You can't look at my avatar for just a second, can you? Just Another Sweater's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 12:26 AM #41
      Yes, you've lost you're mind.

      A stick in a Golf R is just facepalming. The DSG is far better and much more pleasant to drive.

      To bed completely honest my manual GTI is utter garbage compared to my previous DSG.

      Don't even ask how I bought this one.

    18. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 08:05 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      This. Once you see what it does from behind the wheel, you tend to forget the origami'ness of it.
      I must be the only person who likes the looks of the CTR (and the entire current Civic hatch family). I like it a lot. It's the logical evolution of over-the-top. I want to clean up the nose a bit, but the back end is glorious, IMO. It took about two minutes at the auto show for me to go from to .

      Anyway, it all comes down to hoon vs daily vs SRS CAR. N vs R vs CTR.

      I'm a hoon, so I love the N. If you've got a good daily, I always vote hoon. I can track a hoon machine. I am not serious enough to own anything that is SRS CAR.
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    19. Member chois's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 08:36 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      Only the slower cars get that view reserved for them.
      Well played
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    20. Member chois's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 08:38 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      Oh, if you're actually going to track the car then get the Type R or maaaaaaaaybe the lobster N. I thought you were just looking for a fun commuter. Golf R is no track car.
      I agree on this advice. I would totally go R for daily. For a track toy, I agree that the hideousness of the CTR doesn't really matter.
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      08-13-2019 09:31 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Just Another Sweater View Post
      Yes, you've lost you're mind.

      A stick in a Golf R is just facepalming. The DSG is far better and much more pleasant to drive.

      To bed completely honest my manual GTI is utter garbage compared to my previous DSG.

      Don't even ask how I bought this one.
      I actually need to echo this statement. In theory we all want manual cars. In real world daily driver usage, or even moderate daily usage - I'm the opposite of save the manuels. In fact, I think a manual gear box is so dumb if you live near congested areas. It's just not fun, and I think people lie to themselves too much. And I'm public enemy number one with this, having recently bought a civic type r.....


      OP - definitely get the veloster N. Hearing you talk, for your personality and needs, it's the edgy car you want. The Golf R will NOT fill what you're looking for.

    22. Member Spike Ti's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 09:57 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by YukonCornelius View Post
      And I'm public enemy number one with this, having recently bought a civic type r.....
      You really went from Model 3 to FK8?! Congrats & welcome to the club

    23. Member QUIRKiT's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 10:26 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by KrisA View Post
      I personally can't imaging getting bored of a Golf R. I'm not bored of my Alltrack and that's a wayyyyy more boring car than an R. I think the trick with the R is if you like it on a test drive you'll keep liking it. I test drove a 6MT 2019 R a month ago and was floored by the capabilities of the car, cornered like it was on rails and zero drama as it rocketed from a stop our out of corners. I get the "it's too mature criticism", it is super composed, unflappable, just goes fast with no drama. The MKVII GTI I drove had way more drama than the R, spinning front tires, tail out on tight corners, but I'd rather have the R as the GTI just can't get the power down below 60kph.

      Back to the OP, why are you looking for something practical if you are keeping the wagon? What about getting a pure sports car for fun times if you have the space for another car and the time to enjoy it?
      I get bored of cars easily. But I haven't said the R would be boring, I just think that it won't be as entertaining, in the long run, as the VN.

      The wagon will become the wifes daily for now, in a couple of years I would like to purchase a fun project and that will be the 3rd vehicle for us. Probably make another thread then because I'm just as undecided on that front -- Minis, Porsches, Mk2 VWs, lowrider truck, who knows.


      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      Oh, if you're actually going to track the car then get the Type R or maaaaaaaaybe the lobster N. I thought you were just looking for a fun commuter. Golf R is no track car.
      Yeah, I have every intention on doing at least an autocross event a month. But I don't think I'll ever get past the CTRs looks, I just can't with that thing. Saw one drive by me yesterday and immediately thought "yeeesh, that wing."

      Quote Originally Posted by Ttone74 View Post
      I just recently got an R, and my wife and I love it! It is in a league above of the N, IMO. It does everything a car needs to. With DCC and all of the modes, you can create a custom mode that changes like 8 different aspects of the car. You can feel the difference of every change, and it is amazing tech! Worth every penny

      Do yourself a favor and go test drive a Golf R.
      I've driven many Golf R's and recently drove a Mk7.5

      Quote Originally Posted by Duvel View Post
      I had a test drive in the N, R and GTI on the same day not so long ago. From a pure driving pleasure experience, the N had a whole lot going for it and I was very pleasantly surprised. But it's a designated replacement of my wife's 340ix daily and I think she'd vastly prefer a VW, especially since the mkv GTI is her all-time favorite car we've owned and the lack of heated seats in the N. As it stands, the R is the clear front runner. For the more raw driving experience I'm thinking an additional vehicle that's a bit more raw and inspiring than the N: definitely RWD, two doors, manual and non-daily.

      OP: definitely not crazy!
      Thanks for the reassurance! I know that the Golf R would be the ultimate daily, but the feel the VN gives is amazing for the pricepoint and I think it will be an absolute beast in autocross.

      Quote Originally Posted by s55b30 View Post
      Only buy the R if you're going DSG and that gearbox makes a difference in the purchase thought process. I've had 2 bolt-on MK7 and they're both spectacular. Owned pretty much everything at this point within reason, and absolutely love the N over the R. I've had zero regrets. With the adjustable dampers and exhaust (independent of all other drive modes) you can turn the thing into a quiet, comfortable daily and go full crazy with the press of a button. It has a ton of personality the Mk7 just doesn't, and I have learned to get over the 3-door life and just enjoy the drive every day.

      *With that said, if I was still commuting in downtown Boston, I'd be in a DSG R right now. But, living off of backroads made the N well worth it.

      Also, don't buy without PP. Just don't.
      The dealer I test drove with was trying to deal hard on a non-PP car, guy could not understand that it's performance pack or no deal. If I was still doing my old commute (42 miles one way!), this would be no question and I would be in the R. But now I drive 18 miles round-trip and will have the GSW for roadtrips.

      Any leads on performance goodies other than the couple of things that exist currently?

      Quote Originally Posted by Just Another Sweater View Post
      Yes, you've lost you're mind.

      A stick in a Golf R is just facepalming. The DSG is far better and much more pleasant to drive.

      To bed completely honest my manual GTI is utter garbage compared to my previous DSG.

      Don't even ask how I bought this one.
      I wouldn't buy a manual Golf R, because 1) the DSG is just too damn good and 2) I don't feel like replacing clutches on a stock car with <100k miles.

      Quote Originally Posted by atomicalex View Post
      I must be the only person who likes the looks of the CTR (and the entire current Civic hatch family). I like it a lot. It's the logical evolution of over-the-top. I want to clean up the nose a bit, but the back end is glorious, IMO. It took about two minutes at the auto show for me to go from to .

      Anyway, it all comes down to hoon vs daily vs SRS CAR. N vs R vs CTR.

      I'm a hoon, so I love the N. If you've got a good daily, I always vote hoon. I can track a hoon machine. I am not serious enough to own anything that is SRS CAR.
      I think you're absolutely right. Right now the hoon is pulling at my heart strings.

      Quote Originally Posted by YukonCornelius View Post
      I actually need to echo this statement. In theory we all want manual cars. In real world daily driver usage, or even moderate daily usage - I'm the opposite of save the manuels. In fact, I think a manual gear box is so dumb if you live near congested areas. It's just not fun, and I think people lie to themselves too much. And I'm public enemy number one with this, having recently bought a civic type r.....


      OP - definitely get the veloster N. Hearing you talk, for your personality and needs, it's the edgy car you want. The Golf R will NOT fill what you're looking for.
      Am I edgy? o no.
      Quote Originally Posted by Capt.Dreadz View Post
      This place is going to hell on a Thule roof rack.

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      08-13-2019 10:37 AM #48
      I'm not sure what a "SRS" car is? Serious? If so, one more comment that while the CTR looks wild - the way it drives when being docile is nothing like its looks. It's VERY street friendly; more so than the veloster n. Quiet, easy clutch feel/modulation, very refined powerband. On the flipside, the capability is just incredible. Every driver input is spot on, steering, brakes, etc, with IMMENSE (scary) grip and corner exit speed. I think the car in my sonic gray looks quite awesome. You get over the looks quickly, and start to appreciate how much it draws your eye and all the little details keep your focus. The Civic Type R would be talked about much more if they weren't so difficult for people to test drive (you either have to buy one, or drive a used one). It is something truly special that honda should be applauded for. All the "looks" haters haven't driven one.

      Even with all that, I don't want to daily drive it (and I'm not tracking it, and it seems stupid to sit in the garage), which is why I'm going to be trading it in. I don't want to hijack this thread, I'll leave it at this: I"m just a "specialized car" degenerate that needs to finally understand/accept where "specialized" cars really fall on my hobbies list. Maybe I'll create a thread one day soon so people can make fun of me lol, or ask questions.
      Last edited by YukonCornelius; 08-13-2019 at 10:41 AM.

    25. Junior Member s55b30's Avatar
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      08-13-2019 12:49 PM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by QUIRKiT View Post



      The dealer I test drove with was trying to deal hard on a non-PP car, guy could not understand that it's performance pack or no deal. If I was still doing my old commute (42 miles one way!), this would be no question and I would be in the R. But now I drive 18 miles round-trip and will have the GSW for roadtrips.

      Any leads on performance goodies other than the couple of things that exist currently?

      With PP, I have found few temptations to modify the car as the LSD / adjustable dampers / valved exhaust are very good out of the box. For me, a rear motor mount and downsizing the heavy 19s (roughly 30 lbs/ea.) are all I have wanted to do at this point.

      JB4 is gaining traction in the community, and I have a hard time believing with intake / upgraded cooler / tune I could reasonably want any more out of this car.

    26. Just Milking my Carrot in the Honda break room. Metallitubby's Avatar
      Join Date
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      08-13-2019 12:52 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by YukonCornelius View Post
      Maybe I'll create a thread one day soon so people can make fun of me lol, or ask questions.
      Anyone that laughs at you for having vehicle needs vs. wants would be a hypocrite on this site.
      * My contributions are not representative of American Honda

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