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    1. Member rlfletch's Avatar
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      08-10-2019 09:22 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by E365 View Post
      Exactly. And I’d argue it’s possible the EV owner will spend LESS time as a whole waiting on refueling/charging because the ONLY time you’d be waiting on a charger is on a road trip. Every other time it’s while I sleep - in my own garage.
      This is overlooked so often it makes my head hurt. It is a huge benefit to not ever have to visit a gas station day to day. These mythical hammer down, no second to spare road trips are virtually non existent for 99.99% of the road going public too. Most people who bitch about EVs have never owned one.
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    3. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 08:41 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by brennok View Post
      I am guessing you are talking about the future since around here I have still yet to see a charging station. I checked Google and there are 4 on the local college campus and some 30 minutes away in downtown.
      Don't check Google, check PlugShare. Seriously.

      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      How are EVs objectively better for everybody?
      Only idiots like you have said "everybody." Strawman much?

      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      This is overlooked so often it makes my head hurt. It is a huge benefit to not ever have to visit a gas station day to day. These mythical hammer down, no second to spare road trips are virtually non existent for 99.99% of the road going public too. Most people who bitch about EVs have never owned one.
      Exactly.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

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      08-12-2019 09:17 AM #78
      Although it's a great benefit that you never have to go out of your way to visit a gas station, I've never heard anyone mention this: Not every car owner lives in the suburbs/exurbs/rural IE has a garage. If you don't have access to a garage, than an ICE/Hybrid/PHEV is probably far more convienant than a full EV. Although this won't be much of an issue in 15 years when charging stations will be as common place as gas stations.
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      08-12-2019 09:59 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Although it's a great benefit that you never have to go out of your way to visit a gas station, I've never heard anyone mention this: Not every car owner lives in the suburbs/exurbs/rural IE has a garage. If you don't have access to a garage, than an ICE/Hybrid/PHEV is probably far more convienant than a full EV. Although this won't be much of an issue in 15 years when charging stations will be as common place as gas stations.
      Don't worry, we will fix that with more mandates and subsidies, because that is how the market builds things that consumers are demanding.

    6. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:00 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      I've never heard anyone mention this: Not every car owner lives in the suburbs/exurbs/rural IE has a garage.
      I guess you have never read an EV thread in TCL..
      It is brought up in almost every single one of them and usually by the same people. There are more and more options becoming available for those people while parked over night. But currently you can still charge while you shop, eat, watch a movie, etc.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
      Pedantry: winning arguments through exasperation since 1651. An Old World Tradition!
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    7. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:03 AM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Although it's a great benefit that you never have to go out of your way to visit a gas station, I've never heard anyone mention this: Not every car owner lives in the suburbs/exurbs/rural IE has a garage. If you don't have access to a garage, than an ICE/Hybrid/PHEV is probably far more convienant than a full EV. Although this won't be much of an issue in 15 years when charging stations will be as common place as gas stations.
      I agree wholeheartedly. Not everyone has a place to charge, but for those who do it's an excellent way (and cheaper) to get to work and back. That's why price parity is important. Once we're there (and can produce enough), it's "Katie bar the door".

      EREVs are a great compromise for those who have intermittent charging capabilities (such as at work or a parking garage) but not at home. It's also a good failsafe during a power outage. A can of gas works just as well in an EREV as it does in a regular gasser, negating that argument completely.
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    8. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:04 AM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Don't worry, we will fix that with more mandates and subsidies, because that is how the market builds things that consumers are demanding.
      You're viewing adoption as a zero sum game. (And being a little obtuse in the process, reading your responses to this thread).

      If people live in apartments in rural areas, or don't have access to infrastructure, then they will naturally be the last to adopt. And that's okay. As more EVs proliferate in their areas the infrastructure will catch up as demand goes up.

      The vast majority of this country's population lives in urban or suburban areas, and those are what are seeing infrastructure catch up, FAST. Speaking anecdotally, I would have told you based on charging infrastructure 4 years ago, EVs were still a long ways off. I can now say based on my suburban area I can run an EV with no issues, right now, full stop.

      You could even live in an apartment and run a Tesla pretty easily around here.
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      08-12-2019 10:15 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      I guess you have never read an EV thread in TCL..
      It is brought up in almost every single one of them and usually by the same people. There are more and more options becoming available for those people while parked over night. But currently you can still charge while you shop, eat, watch a movie, etc.
      Of the 10 or so charging stations near my house, none are near any malls or movie theaters, and only 3 or so are near places you can eat (and I am talking about gas stations and Dunkin Donuts... hardly anywhere I imagine anyone is taking their family out to dinner)

      Anecdotal obviously but I live in a pretty average American city


      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      You're viewing adoption as a zero sum game. (And being a little obtuse in the process, reading your responses to this thread).

      If people live in apartments in rural areas, or don't have access to infrastructure, then they will naturally be the last to adopt. And that's okay. As more EVs proliferate in their areas the infrastructure will catch up as demand goes up.

      The vast majority of this country's population lives in urban or suburban areas, and those are what are seeing infrastructure catch up, FAST. Speaking anecdotally, I would have told you based on charging infrastructure 4 years ago, EVs were still a long ways off. I can now say based on my suburban area I can run an EV with no issues, right now, full stop.

      You could even live in an apartment and run a Tesla pretty easily around here.
      I haven't made it zero sum; the pro-EV folks have. If I haven't been clear, I am not saying EVs shouldn't exist or be pursued; just that they shouldn't be forced as a wholesale ICEV replacement as the VW VP and several folks in here are demanding. If I can have some lulz on the way, I'm not going to turn them down

      Obviously there are places and people where/for whom EVs work better than others. For many, they will never be workable. So again, why the demand for wholesale replacement? As I've said many times, I could easily do an EV. I am a prime EV candidate. When there are no compelling ICEVs that fit my needs left, I'll have no problem changing over. But I don't see the value in forcing the change well before the market/infrastructure/industry is ready. And they are not, nor does it appear they will be any time soon, nor have I seen or heard any advantages in forcing the change ASAP, aside from VWAG getting in the good graces of the EU and China

    10. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:27 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Of the 10 or so charging stations near my house, none are near any malls or movie theaters, and only 3 or so are near places you can eat (and I am talking about gas stations and Dunkin Donuts... hardly anywhere I imagine anyone is taking their family out to dinner)

      Anecdotal obviously but I live in a pretty average American city
      I live in Texas and they seem to be everywhere around here. But I guess we are filling up with liberals and they are forcing their elite views down our throats and turning the state blue. So we are no longer an "average" American city.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
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    11. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:32 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by rlfletch View Post
      This is overlooked so often it makes my head hurt. It is a huge benefit to not ever have to visit a gas station day to day.
      I honestly don't think it is, at least for me. I drive little enough that getting gas is an "at my leisure" think 95% of the time. Run out at lunchtime, casually stop on the way home from work, whatever, it's not a big deal. I've got a station like 4 blocks from my house that's easy to hop to on the way to/from work or even make a quick run out. Honestly NBD.


      These mythical hammer down, no second to spare road trips are virtually non existent for 99.99% of the road going public too.
      Are they? I don't think that's true. Around here, LOTS of people take frequent road trips over the summer, and 0.0% of them want to stop with their little kids and add an extra hour or so to the trip. I sure as hell don't. Almost all of our road trips are to our cabin, and we invariably leave after work, and so throwing an extra hour on the ~5 hour trip SUCKS.

      Most people who bitch about EVs have never owned one.
      Guilty, but I did spend a weekend with a Model X which shocked me how fast it went through range, and also, I can do the basic math that says "range = extra stops = extra road trip time = do not want". We do that 325 mile each way run every month or two. I'm just not interested in making it longer.

      And I say this as a guy who is otherwise interested in having a fast Tesla.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    12. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:34 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Of the 10 or so charging stations near my house, none are near any malls or movie theaters, and only 3 or so are near places you can eat (and I am talking about gas stations and Dunkin Donuts... hardly anywhere I imagine anyone is taking their family out to dinner)

      Anecdotal obviously but I live in a pretty average American city
      What is around you at this moment in time has very little to do with what will be around most people in 10 years. You do understand that, right?




      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I haven't made it zero sum; the pro-EV folks have. If I haven't been clear, I am not saying EVs shouldn't exist or be pursued; just that they shouldn't be forced as a wholesale ICEV replacement as the VW VP and several folks in here are demanding. If I can have some lulz on the way, I'm not going to turn them down

      Obviously there are places and people where/for whom EVs work better than others. For many, they will never be workable. So again, why the demand for wholesale replacement? As I've said many times, I could easily do an EV. I am a prime EV candidate. When there are no compelling ICEVs that fit my needs left, I'll have no problem changing over. But I don't see the value in forcing the change well before the market/infrastructure/industry is ready. And they are not, nor does it appear they will be any time soon, nor have I seen or heard any advantages in forcing the change ASAP, aside from VWAG getting in the good graces of the EU and China
      Many? Never?

      Yeah, I know that they won't replace fueled cars 100%, but they're able to do the heavy lifting of personal transport today with no modifications other than cost. Where will they be in 20 years? Neither of us know, but one of us thinks things are static and the other does not.
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    13. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      08-12-2019 10:37 AM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      I guess you have never read an EV thread in TCL..
      It is brought up in almost every single one of them and usually by the same people. There are more and more options becoming available for those people while parked over night. But currently you can still charge while you shop, eat, watch a movie, etc.
      Not to mention (depending on how specific the garage part was intended) it's not like you need a garage to charge an EV. Around here garages are where people pile their junk, and the driveway is where they park the car. There's tons of chargers here that people have installed on the front or side of their house and it reaches to the driveway just fine.

      Things might not be there yet for people who only have street parking, but that doesn't mean they can't be.

      In cold cities people have run cords from their house to their block heaters for decades (legally or not).

    14. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:13 AM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Of the 10 or so charging stations near my house, none are near any malls or movie theaters, and only 3 or so are near places you can eat (and I am talking about gas stations and Dunkin Donuts... hardly anywhere I imagine anyone is taking their family out to dinner)

      Anecdotal obviously but I live in a pretty average American city




      I haven't made it zero sum; the pro-EV folks have. If I haven't been clear, I am not saying EVs shouldn't exist or be pursued; just that they shouldn't be forced as a wholesale ICEV replacement as the VW VP and several folks in here are demanding. If I can have some lulz on the way, I'm not going to turn them down

      Obviously there are places and people where/for whom EVs work better than others. For many, they will never be workable. So again, why the demand for wholesale replacement? As I've said many times, I could easily do an EV. I am a prime EV candidate. When there are no compelling ICEVs that fit my needs left, I'll have no problem changing over. But I don't see the value in forcing the change well before the market/infrastructure/industry is ready. And they are not, nor does it appear they will be any time soon, nor have I seen or heard any advantages in forcing the change ASAP, aside from VWAG getting in the good graces of the EU and China
      Okay, so you're just trolling and being a d-bag on what is otherwise a serious topic around transformational tech? Ok....

      I don't believe you're accurate when you say the tech is being "forced". I think EVs have reached a tipping point where more people who are curious are trying them and realizing they benefit from having an EV. I happen to be one of those.

      Additionally, the need to lower development costs are a key point for manufacturers - the drivetrain becomes more standardized and thus lowers long term engineering costs.

      And I definitely would not go so far to say "for many they will never be workable". Maybe RIGHT NOW, but definitely not in 1 year, 2 years, or even 5 years. We are in the same place in history as when the MOdel T took over from the horse, and plenty of people back then likely said a car would never replace a horse because there's no place out here in the Great Wild West to refuel it, fix it, etc...

      Well, look where we are at now?

      Adoption is happening FAST. Teslas out in blue collar Chicago suburbs are NOT an uncommon sight, and there are three Superchargers in the state of Iowa. Adoption is happening, and much faster than you think it is.
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    15. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 11:48 AM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I honestly don't think it is, at least for me. I drive little enough that getting gas is an "at my leisure" think 95% of the time. Run out at lunchtime, casually stop on the way home from work, whatever, it's not a big deal. I've got a station like 4 blocks from my house that's easy to hop to on the way to/from work or even make a quick run out. Honestly NBD.




      Are they? I don't think that's true. Around here, LOTS of people take frequent road trips over the summer, and 0.0% of them want to stop with their little kids and add an extra hour or so to the trip. I sure as hell don't. Almost all of our road trips are to our cabin, and we invariably leave after work, and so throwing an extra hour on the ~5 hour trip SUCKS.



      Guilty, but I did spend a weekend with a Model X which shocked me how fast it went through range, and also, I can do the basic math that says "range = extra stops = extra road trip time = do not want". We do that 325 mile each way run every month or two. I'm just not interested in making it longer.

      And I say this as a guy who is otherwise interested in having a fast Tesla.
      Do you have two cars now? One could be an EV. Then you take the other for road trips.

      The fact is, however, that MOST people don't take long road trips regularly, which is why the average annual mileage for cars and trucks is set at 12-15k miles (33 miles a day).

      No one's said they work for "everyone" TODAY, but that's changing fast and they do already work for the majority of people. Apartments and street parking will be coming up to speed, especially as apartments and condos can get subsidies to install chargers at them now. Throw in a nominal fee per month and the cost is recouped quite rapidly and the end user will barely know it. And anyone with a SFH and offstreet parking within 25 ft of the house can have a charger now.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    16. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 12:11 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Do you have two cars now? One could be an EV. Then you take the other for road trips.
      I have three, actually, and I regularly take all three on the trip. A fair number of times my wife and I drive separately due to work schedules.

      The fact is, however, that MOST people don't take long road trips regularly, which is why the average annual mileage for cars and trucks is set at 12-15k miles (33 miles a day).
      I will be right at 12k miles this year in my Jeep. I have a short commute (7 miles each way) but road trip regularly, so it balances it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    17. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 12:14 PM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Are they? I don't think that's true. Around here, LOTS of people take frequent road trips over the summer, and 0.0% of them want to stop with their little kids and add an extra hour or so to the trip. I sure as hell don't. Almost all of our road trips are to our cabin, and we invariably leave after work, and so throwing an extra hour on the ~5 hour trip SUCKS.
      An hour? I dont have kids, so I dont know how much you have to stop or what, but an hour is a bit of a stretch on a 5 hour drive to charge. From my house in Colchester VT, to Hoboken NJ is 5:50 of driving. In a Long Range Model 3, it takes 10 minutes to charge. Total trip is 6 hours. And thats with asking the planner to have me arrive with 30% charge left. You're telling me you dont need to stop in 5+ hours of driving? Yall have supper bladders. Maybe you do need to own a long range EV to understand. Here's some data for you. Plug in your house and camp and tell us how much charging needs to be done.

      https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...9-116e28cbf535
      Slow Car Fast

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      08-12-2019 12:29 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      An hour? I dont have kids, so I dont know how much you have to stop or what, but an hour is a bit of a stretch on a 5 hour drive to charge. From my house in Colchester VT, to Hoboken NJ is 5:50 of driving. In a Long Range Model 3, it takes 10 minutes to charge. Total trip is 6 hours. And thats with asking the planner to have me arrive with 30% charge left. You're telling me you dont need to stop in 5+ hours of driving? Yall have supper bladders. Maybe you do need to own a long range EV to understand. Here's some data for you. Plug in your house and camp and tell us how much charging needs to be done.

      https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...9-116e28cbf535
      Maybe some of it is my mindset, but if I'm going to stop and get fuel, I'm going to "fill it up". Maybe you're right, maybe I only need 10-15 minutes of charging. Seems odd to me, but maybe I need to change my thinking.


      And yeah, usually the kids fall asleep and we do everything we can to keep moving, and not stop and wake them up.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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      08-12-2019 12:32 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I don't believe you're accurate when you say the tech is being "forced". I think EVs have reached a tipping point where more people who are curious are trying them and realizing they benefit from having an EV. I happen to be one of those.
      So municipalities and countries pledging to ban non-EVs isn't force?

      Again I'm not saying EVs shouldn't exist- just that people should continue to have an opportunity to opt out.

      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      Additionally, the need to lower development costs are a key point for manufacturers - the drivetrain becomes more standardized and thus lowers long term engineering costs.
      The same standardization could (and to a degree kind of is, and IMO should) happen with ICE engines too though. I'm pretty sure I made a thread about the insanity of all these different 2.0Ts running around. We are kind of there already with transmissions.

      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      And I definitely would not go so far to say "for many they will never be workable". Maybe RIGHT NOW, but definitely not in 1 year, 2 years, or even 5 years. We are in the same place in history as when the MOdel T took over from the horse, and plenty of people back then likely said a car would never replace a horse because there's no place out here in the Great Wild West to refuel it, fix it, etc...

      Well, look where we are at now?
      **** like this is why it's hard for me to take pro EV people serious. What the hell do horses to cars have to do with ICEVs vs BEVs? The benefits and advantages of going to a car vs a horse is pretty obvious today and was even back when cars were new. Like I asked before, what are the clear cut advantages of BEVs over ICEVs for everybody?

      Plus since we are copy and pasting adoption rates... the Model T came out in 1908. By 1918 about 20% of the US had motor vehicles. By 1928 it was half the country. Let's be generous and use the Model S (and not GM's EV1) as the starting point. Do you see EV adoption rates in the US hitting 20% in the next 3 years? Or 50% by 2032? Just from that alone you can't use the horse to car analogy as a 1 for 1 swap.



      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      Adoption is happening FAST. Teslas out in blue collar Chicago suburbs are NOT an uncommon sight, and there are three Superchargers in the state of Iowa. Adoption is happening, and much faster than you think it is.
      Adoption of the car over the horse happened fast. They went from 0 to half in about 20 years. Historically that's about the norm for tech adoption that consumers actually want. BEV adoption is glacial by comparison, especially when you factor in all the govt push trying to make it happen. Correct me if I'm wrong but there were no big govt rebates or mandates to get people to trade their horses in for cars or to buy fridges and cell phones. So why ignore that pretty critical difference when making your analogy?
      Last edited by CTK; 08-12-2019 at 12:34 PM.

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      08-12-2019 12:41 PM #94
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      An hour? I dont have kids, so I dont know how much you have to stop or what, but an hour is a bit of a stretch on a 5 hour drive to charge. From my house in Colchester VT, to Hoboken NJ is 5:50 of driving. In a Long Range Model 3, it takes 10 minutes to charge. Total trip is 6 hours. And thats with asking the planner to have me arrive with 30% charge left. You're telling me you dont need to stop in 5+ hours of driving? Yall have supper bladders. Maybe you do need to own a long range EV to understand. Here's some data for you. Plug in your house and camp and tell us how much charging needs to be done.

      https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?pla...9-116e28cbf535
      Are charging stations mobile? How does it take zero time to pull off/back on the highway?

      The last long drive I did recently was from NYC to NC. Took about 8 hours to clear 600 miles in the Z with a stop for fuel. I put the car on the pump, took a piss, drank a 5 hour energy and kept driving. There are hybrids that can do that on 1 tank. If I had that option I probably would have done a no stop. I am the kind of person who hates waiting for the check at restaurants so yes I absolutely hate stopping on road trips as well. If we had an EV in our household it would not be the road trip car.

    21. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 12:42 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Maybe some of it is my mindset, but if I'm going to stop and get fuel, I'm going to "fill it up". Maybe you're right, maybe I only need 10-15 minutes of charging. Seems odd to me, but maybe I need to change my thinking.
      Which is the point of EV adoption. You DO change your thinking. Partly because you learn pretty fast that when you start each day with a full charge, you're not looking to fill up all that often, nor do you want to pay to "fill up" outside your home. And partly because you learn just how far you really go daily, and start realizing that you only want to use the bare minimum to get by and not carry a ton of extra capacity around with you. The reason you fill up now is that you can't fill up at home, so you want to have enough to get you to the end of your range, wherever that may be (even if it ends up at the gas station only a couple blocks from your house). In an EV, you only want/need enough to get to your destination or preferably, just to get home, so you can charge there at your leisure. It's a quantum shift in how you think about your transportation and it happens pretty quickly once you use one for a bit. As Dempsey is finding out with his Leaf.


      And yeah, usually the kids fall asleep and we do everything we can to keep moving, and not stop and wake them up.
      This is quite understandable. But potty breaks are a real thing, too as Crispy is showing us in his road trip Prius thread.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

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      08-12-2019 12:48 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Which is the point of EV adoption. You DO change your thinking. Partly because you learn pretty fast that when you start each day with a full charge, you're not looking to fill up all that often, nor do you want to pay to "fill up" outside your home. And partly because you learn just how far you really go daily, and start realizing that you only want to use the bare minimum to get by and not carry a ton of extra capacity around with you. The reason you fill up now is that you can't fill up at home, so you want to have enough to get you to the end of your range, wherever that may be (even if it ends up at the gas station only a couple blocks from your house). In an EV, you only want/need enough to get to your destination or preferably, just to get home, so you can charge there at your leisure. It's a quantum shift in how you think about your transportation and it happens pretty quickly once you use one for a bit. As Dempsey is finding out with his Leaf.
      With

      - range being as variable as it is
      - charge having no effect on efficiency (in the way that the weight of fuel does)
      - life being life

      why on Google Earth would you not want to stay as fully charged as possible?

      Just this weekend we were out on a date, and grandma had to go to the ER while she was babysitting for us. By your logic, we might not have had enough charge to go out of our way to the hospital and then get home

      If anything, staying topped up becomes even more of a priority, at least until charging stations become more ubiquitous. Would have been awesome to have to scramble to find a charger in the midst of all that drama right around our daughter's bedtime Though realistically we might have had a good amount of charge from the car being plugged in over night.

    23. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 12:58 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      With

      - range being as variable as it is
      - charge having no effect on efficiency (in the way that the weight of fuel does)
      - life being life

      why on Google Earth would you not want to stay as fully charged as possible?

      Just this weekend we were out on a date, and grandma had to go to the ER while she was babysitting for us. By your logic, we might not have had enough charge to go out of our way to the hospital and then get home

      If anything, staying topped up becomes even more of a priority, at least until charging stations become more ubiquitous. Would have been awesome to have to scramble to find a charger in the midst of all that drama right around our daughter's bedtime Though realistically we might have had a good amount of charge from the car being plugged in over night.
      Your last sentence is the point. You HAVE enough range to do a lot just from the overnight charging. Even in my Volt with it's 40 mile range, I commute and then come back, plug in for an hour or two and drive down to downtown Baltimore and back and sometimes have time to drive around a little bit at the end of that trip, only to plug in at home and be ready to do it all again the next morning.

      But the thing is, why pay money to charge back to full while out and about if you don't HAVE to? Read Dempsey's thread on his Leaf. you start with a full charge and then when you're out and about IF you need charging again, you only charge as much as you need to get to your destination or home again. Especially the latter, because charging it it farther than you need to get home is a waste, since you're just going to "fill it up" there and how much time it takes is not a concern. When there's a destination charger that will charge the car up over a period of time that you're doing something else, then you don't want to charge in between any more than it takes to get to that destination, be it a supercharger/DC fast charger at the away location or your home charger.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    24. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 01:08 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Are charging stations mobile? How does it take zero time to pull off/back on the highway?

      The last long drive I did recently was from NYC to NC. Took about 8 hours to clear 600 miles in the Z with a stop for fuel. I put the car on the pump, took a piss, drank a 5 hour energy and kept driving. There are hybrids that can do that on 1 tank. If I had that option I probably would have done a no stop. I am the kind of person who hates waiting for the check at restaurants so yes I absolutely hate stopping on road trips as well. If we had an EV in our household it would not be the road trip car.
      Sure that's fair. If you want to hold it in that's all you my man. But note that charging costs are also lower. If someone offered me $20 to stop for another 15 minutes, would I do it? Hells yes. Fill up for $35 in 4 mins or charge for $10, take a leak, stretch the legs, and eat a snack. It's nice to have choices.
      Slow Car Fast

    25. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      08-12-2019 01:10 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      and grandma had to go to the ER while she was babysitting for us. By your logic,
      Y'all could call Nine-Eleven when you have to go to the hospital and don't have the electrons to get there yourself.

      I mean... this isn't that different of a problem as when the wife brings the car back empty, and you don't realize it until Monday morning before you leave for work.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

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      08-12-2019 01:14 PM #100
      With the exception of maybe 1 or 2 posters, everyone is in general agreement that ICE will be replaced by EV over time. It's just that nobody knows if the correct answer is 10 years or 50 years.

      I was a late adopter going from a flip phone to a smart phone (eventually relented in 2010 with a 4s). I'm going to guess I'll take the same approach with the EV. I'll probably get one as a daily, when >50% of new vehicle sales are EV's, whether it's in 2030 or 2050. Besides things like range, charging time, and price, there will be practical benefits to owning something that the majority of the buying population has.

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