I love ICE and the sounds/smells/fun that accompany them. Thankfully we can have both and those ICE engine cars be used as passion/collector/hobby vehicles. I really do look forward to more choice in EV cars, cheaper, easier to own and operate. Loved riding in a Model 3, for a daily driver it'd make a lot of sense. Excited to see if VW does release the BUZZ ID. That thing would be very cool
From what I’ve read, the battery bank approach for power generation is also occurring, especially with renewables like solar and wind. This is paralleling the development of BEVs. Google Tesla battery farm. I believe Nissan is working on similar things.
Also, as pointed out in this forum, numerous times, home solar/battery banking is the ultimate in energy independence.
You’ll never be able to distill 89 octane at home.
Regarding politics and forcing the masses to see things your way is concerned,
Big Oil has been doing that for about 90 years.
Where’s your rage at the fossil fuel industry?
Last edited by whitejeep1989; 08-09-2019 at 02:09 PM.
I don't think he's wrong about what he's saying.
Of course, comments like this always make me laugh: people are always "selling their book".
1. Real estate only ever goes up (says the real estate agent)
2. Gold is the only safe haven you can buy (says the CNBC analyst who is heavily leveraged in the gold market)
3. Stocks are poised for a major rebound (says the financial analyst who only makes money on the buy)
4. EVs are better for you (the head of Volkswagen's electrification program)
Best case with a hybrid you'll save 70% of fuel costs vs. a fullsize SUV. Smaller gas ICE, best case is more like 50%.
Pure math I think a used ~$10k hybrid is always going to beat out a new EV. But it's 2019 and now there's ~$10k used EVs too (BEV and PHEV).
Not sure what relevance big oil has here... even now it's still the most viable fuel for transportation, and has been for the last 90 years. 20, 30, 50 years ago an electric vehicle was just not feasible.
Look, I am not saying we shouldn't pursue EVs at all. I am just confused with the contradictions coming from its most aggressive proponents. EVs are getting more affordable, yet we need to increase subsidies to accelerate adoption. EV conversion is inevitable, but we need to legislate mandates banning sales of non EVs in the future. Etc. This blatant cognitive dissonance undermines the credibility of EV proponents. They need to approach things in a more logical way.
In reality, the cost savings between something like a Leaf and an Ioniq or Prius... vehicles similar in price, size and performance... is negligible. Even compared to something like a Civic 1.5T, payback is over 7 years.
The EU is a burden upon the backs of EVERY ordinary citizen on that Continent that's country is a member of it. Much of the
general population want out of that monstrosity, only the elites that profit off of it want to stay involved. EU is nothing but autocrats
with NO accountability.
Think I drive too gently? Fine. Let's say I only manage 3.8 miles/kWh (which is comparable to what I see a YouTube Bolt EV driver achieve during 75 MPH road trips). Even then, my monthly electricity cost would climb to just $17.29, which is still 70% less than the 40 mpg subcompact.
In my mind, if you're considering buying an HEV it makes sense to go all in and choose a PHEV instead (assuming an all-out BEV cannot meet your needs). Why burn less gas day-to-day when you could burn no gas instead?
Granted, regional difference mean a lot. Where I live, a 55mpg hybrid like a Prius would cost me $0.06/mi ($3.28/gal). An EV charged at home can get under $0.02 ($0.075/kWh all-in off peak, ~4mi/kWh). It gets closer in places where gas is cheap and electricity expensive. Sounds like TurboMinivan doesn't drive much, but if you're like me and do 1500 miles a month, the BEV saves an additional $60/mo compared to the hybrid.
1500 miles in a
Suburban - $307.50
Edge - $213.91
Civic 1.5T CVT - $136.67
Rav4 Hybrid - $123.00
Prius - $94.62
Leaf - $33.75
IoniqEV - $28.13
Even in your list many of the advantages are conditional or questionable... who exactly is #1 an advantage for, besides manufacturers and shareholders? #5 only counts if you have a place at home to charge. Forget an urban area like NYC- someone in a small low rise apartment complex will have problems charging their EV at home. And someone with a longer commute will need a fa$ter charger. And the skateboard design actually works against #7- look at the iD.3 vs the Golf; if anything the average car is going to get uglier or more crossoverish with the mandatory raised floors.
Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
Personally I don't give a damn what anyone thinks, but I'm not the "keeping up with the Joneses" type. At all. Why do you think I'm still driving the Fit? Because it still works fine. I may or may not be one of those people driving a gasser in 20 years (but most likely not for my daily).
Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
If the question is about the barriers to widespread adoption and you're dismissing many of the key barriers, then you're talking about something different than the rest of us are.
Here's the reality of life in an ICE world. In 98% of geographic locations in the US, we just get in the car and go. We don't worry about how temperature will degrade range. We don't don't worry about whether we plugged in overnight to get a full charge. We don't worry about if, as life typically has it, our plans change in an instant. With, ICE, we get in the car and see that our spouse left us on "E", maybe curse a little, and spend an extra 10 mins going to and getting gas. And for those of us who live in a city (which is more and more of us, right?) there's currently no stress about worry about where/how to charge our car. So the purchase price of a BEV is really just one problem.
I really like the idea of having an EV of some sort as a commuter/beater as you state, but there's no indication that the transaction price of the cars is coming down to reasonable---commuter car levels. There's still a fair amount of work I'd have to do to my own house to get it in a position for fast charging as well. I'd still have to consider where I'm going on a given weekend. Right now, I'm looking at houses and spending a fair amount of time in a car---driving off the beaten path. I'd need to have an ICE car for these instances. But that's not how things are being envisioned. If you expect me to give up ICE (putting aside all the cool stuff I've grown to love about the experience with these), there better be a way for me to use the next iteration of EV technology just like I use it now. If I was like more people who have kids and two vehicles, I'm not sure I'd want one of the cars to be a BEV at the current time.
On a strictly personal note, I hope my aging parallels advances in EVs of all sorts. And when my faculties/skills aren't great any longer, I can just transition to a Jetson-mobile. That would be awesome---what a life!
Good news is... the end of the world will be postponed due to the lack of combustible fuel.
The only real hurdles to overcome are manufacturing capacity and cost of batteries. That's it. Once that's down to the point of making the car as cheap as a gas car then the adoption rate of electric cars will soar.
Last edited by Air and water do mix; 08-09-2019 at 05:30 PM.
Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park