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    1. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 10:04 AM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      They made some good ones and some bad ones, and I'm guessing all the bad ones have been filtered out by now.
      And I think we can end the thread right here, because that sums up my opinion on MkIVs.

      Around here in Chicago, the ones you still see are almost always lower spec ones with 2.0s, and they are all beaten to within an inch of their lives. I haven't seen a nice MkIV in quite some time, and I haven't seen a nice 1.8T or VR6 MkIV in years.

      All opinions my own, as Tom likes to say, but I am here to pour a little cold water on this love fest, because I think the owners who have the cars now are looking at them through rose tinted glasses. My advice to anyone looking to buy a MkIV is to beware - it's a German Alfa Romeo with high requirements of service and maintenance - unreasonably so IMO given the car and what it is.
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    3. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 10:20 AM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I haven't seen a nice 1.8T or VR6 MkIV in years.
      Just like with older Japanese cars, the sporty versions are the most likely to be abused by teenagers, crashed, or stolen.
      __________

    4. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 10:32 AM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I haven't seen a nice MkIV in quite some time, and I haven't seen a nice 1.8T or VR6 MkIV in years.
      Quote Originally Posted by VWestlife View Post
      Just like with older Japanese cars, the sporty versions are the most likely to be abused by teenagers, crashed, or stolen.
      If you really look, you can find some out there still.

      https://baltimore.craigslist.org/ctd...913346234.html





      https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/...912784454.html


      https://newjersey.craigslist.org/ctd...928967314.html



      https://annapolis.craigslist.org/cto...925263077.html



      It is odd to see, though. Most of them are pretty rough now, but I can't blame the cars for that. They're 20 year old economy cars now, and the same can be said about competing models over the same vintage, too.

    5. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 11:13 AM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      If you really look, you can find some out there still.

      It is odd to see, though. Most of them are pretty rough now, but I can't blame the cars for that. They're 20 year old economy cars now, and the same can be said about competing models over the same vintage, too.
      They are economy *based* cars. The VR6 cars were VERY expensive when new - my 2000 Jetta GLX 5 speed was a $26,000 car.
      Matt
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    6. Member vwlifer27's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 11:16 AM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      They are economy *based* cars. The VR6 cars were VERY expensive when new - my 2000 Jetta GLX 5 speed was a $26,000 car.
      I don't remember all the spec differences back then, but I had a 2000 VR6 GLS and it was $23,000. What was the GLS missing beside climatronic and wood grain? It had Monsoon.

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      07-11-2019 11:24 AM #81
      I owned my Mk. IV GTI for the fewest months I've owned a car, tied with my first car Ö a 1974 Pinto.

      The Mk. IV GTI was just a bland, vanilla car.

      I had an '87 GTI 16v for over 9 years and 175,000 miles. Then bought a B4 1997 Passat GLX wagon with a stick that was 0% financing for 24 months since the redesigned Passat was being released.

      The Mk. IV was after the Passat wagon, and I missed the extra room and 4 doors. As mentioned, it was a bland car, especially when compared to my Mk. II GTI.

      Traded the Mk. IV in on a loaded, CPO 2003 Audi A4 Avant 3.0q with a stick.

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      07-11-2019 11:27 AM #82
      My 2001 GTI GLX stickered for $24,375.

      Base: $22,900
      17" wheels: $400
      Northeast emissions: $100
      Destination charge: $525
      CD changer (!): $450

    9. Senior Member
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      07-11-2019 11:31 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by vwlifer27 View Post
      I don't remember all the spec differences back then, but I had a 2000 VR6 GLS and it was $23,000. What was the GLS missing beside climatronic and wood grain? It had Monsoon.
      Glx would have had standard power leather seats and sunroof plus the climatronic and wood grain forget if cold weather was standard or not. Plus the bigger wheels likely factored into a price. 26k sounds about right if you got everything. I completely forget if monsoon was standard on those or not.

      Gls would have had standard cloth with sunroof, cold weather, leather being optional. J think on the sunroof. Maybe it was standard on gls?


      Auto optional on both


      I think sticker on my manual 1.8t cloth with sunroof and cold weather gls was about 21500. So your 23 sounds about right for a similarly equipped vr6.

    10. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 11:49 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Glx would have had standard power leather seats and sunroof plus the climatronic and wood grain forget if cold weather was standard or not. Plus the bigger wheels likely factored into a price. 26k sounds about right if you got everything. I completely forget if monsoon was standard on those or not.

      Gls would have had standard cloth with sunroof, cold weather, leather being optional. J think on the sunroof. Maybe it was standard on gls?


      Auto optional on both


      I think sticker on my manual 1.8t cloth with sunroof and cold weather gls was about 21500. So your 23 sounds about right for a similarly equipped vr6.
      The GLX also had Memory Seats. My car was pre-Monsoon, but it did have an upgraded sound system with both CD changer and the in dash CD player (which I added).
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    11. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:01 PM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Gls would have had standard cloth with sunroof, cold weather, leather being optional. J think on the sunroof. Maybe it was standard on gls?
      Was this across the board, or just for the 1.8T and VR6 cars? I have a GLS and it has cloth, power windows, power locks, power/heated mirrors, Monsoon audio, but it does not have a sunroof, stability control, alloy wheels, heated seats, or auto climate.

    12. Senior Sloth SWeetie's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:16 PM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Gls would have had standard cloth with sunroof, cold weather, leather being optional. J think on the sunroof. Maybe it was standard on gls? Auto optional on both
      Correct.

      I had a silver 99.5 GLS with a build date of March 1999, purchased May 1st. Mine was equipped with tan leather, cold weather, sunroof, 01M auto. Aside from the early MkIV issues (fuel door motor, window regs, 02 sensor, failing early cupholder and soft touch), the car was absolutely bulletproof. I put 194K miles on it and sold it in beautiful condition to an older woman who wanted a grocery getter and grew up with German cars.
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    13. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:17 PM #87
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      Was this across the board, or just for the 1.8T and VR6 cars? I have a GLS and it has cloth, power windows, power locks, power/heated mirrors, Monsoon audio, but it does not have a sunroof, stability control, alloy wheels, heated seats, or auto climate.
      Sunroof/Alloys was an option for the GLS in 2002, at least when I ordered my GLS TDI Wagon. I have regerts, since I don't care about sunroofs and I hated the Avus wheels. It was like $1100 for those items.
      I have manuel cloth seats, power windows, heated mirrors, but no heated seats or stability control.

      The radios were a huge flux at the time. I have a Kinda-CAN Dual DIN non monsoon with the Quadlock connector that I've been told sounds better than the actual Monsoon by Monsoon owners.
      I wanted to upgrade to one of those cool Chinese Bluetooth radios, but the CAN issue was a can of worms that an FM transmitter solved with much less drama.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
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    14. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:18 PM #88
      My brother's 99 VR6 GLX Jetta was pretty dang loaded.
      Even had self detaching bumper covers.

    15. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:29 PM #89
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      My brother's 99 VR6 GLX Jetta was pretty dang loaded.
      Even had self detaching bumper covers.


      Until the last couple of posts I had completely forgotten about the broken center arm rest, peeling soft touch, intermittent driver's door sensor issue (caused the alarm to go off), and broken cupholders. I got lucky by not having my glovebox latch break like other people.
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    16. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:29 PM #90
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      I wanted to upgrade to one of those cool Chinese Bluetooth radios, but the CAN issue was a can of worms that an FM transmitter solved with much less drama.
      Yes, I did that as well. I was looking into the Chinese units, but then found a transmitter on Amazon for like $16 and it works perfectly.

      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    17. Member IJM's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 12:38 PM #91
      My '01 GTI VR6 GLX (that I still drive) came with the Monsoon, leather seats (no memory function), climatronic, sunroof, auto-dimming mirrors, heated side mirrors, rain-sensing wipers, and all that jazz. I paid $23,795. It all still works. Some of the interior is peeling, but it's got 100 track days and the VR is still purring.

      A pic from last year:

      Last edited by IJM; 07-11-2019 at 01:05 PM.

    18. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:00 PM #92
      My 2003.5 Jetta 1.8T is still getting registered and driven. I sold it with 100,000 miles on it in 2012.

      I never replaced a faulty coil, and honestly, besides a few things that happened from things I did, it was super reliable.

      Also never replaced a window regulator.
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    19. Member Sortafast's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:04 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I bought one new, dealer maintained it, and the car was an absolute nightmare. I am glad your older used Mk4s are serving you well. Those of us who were burned by new Mk4 ownership will never forgive, and never forget. I still think they are POS cars designed to look and feel good, but not be reliable.
      Same. Bought brand new, dealer maintained on schedule. The last straw was the water pump failing while it had under 40k miles. I traded that sumbitch before the warranty ran out. I didn't wait for it to start costing me money as well as time making unscheduled trips to the dealer.

    20. Member Disgruntled Ziemniak's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:17 PM #94
      This is a weird one, but I feel it belongs in this forum.
      Because of the way the McPherson is setup in the MK IV, once lowered, the control arms end up sitting below the wheel and have to meet it at an inclined angle, essentially pushing the wheel up. This causes the car to drive almost as if itís been raised, even with the lower center of gravity. Itís goofy af, but itís something I read about a number of moons ago. Iím sure you can find a much better explanation elsewhere, but thatís the very very basic gist of it.
      Your favorite Ziemniak, hold the gravy.

    21. Member IJM's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:43 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntled Ziemniak View Post
      This is a weird one, but I feel it belongs in this forum.
      Because of the way the McPherson is setup in the MK IV, once lowered, the control arms end up sitting below the wheel and have to meet it at an inclined angle, essentially pushing the wheel up. This causes the car to drive almost as if itís been raised, even with the lower center of gravity. Itís goofy af, but itís something I read about a number of moons ago. Iím sure you can find a much better explanation elsewhere, but thatís the very very basic gist of it.
      Sort of. The issue when the car is lowered substantially, the inside of the control arm where it attaches to the subframe is now lower than where the outside attaches to the ball joint. In other words, the control arm slopes upward as points toward the wheel rather than downward. This isn't a big deal when driving in a straight line, but as the outer front wheel's suspension compresses in a corner, the wheel actually gains positive camber and increases understeer. The solution is spindles with lower attachment points for the ball joint (and tie rod). You can use one off a TT, or for even more correction, H2Sport used to make custom ones that fixed the control arm angle issue on lowered cars. This is what I use.

    22. 07-11-2019 01:49 PM #96
      Didn't the mk4 2.0 have the piston ring problem and oil consumption? I take it those motors may consume a ton of oil, but even starving it, it won't die?

      Quote Originally Posted by Disgruntled Ziemniak View Post
      This is a weird one, but I feel it belongs in this forum.
      Because of the way the McPherson is setup in the MK IV, once lowered, the control arms end up sitting below the wheel and have to meet it at an inclined angle, essentially pushing the wheel up. This causes the car to drive almost as if itís been raised, even with the lower center of gravity. Itís goofy af, but itís something I read about a number of moons ago. Iím sure you can find a much better explanation elsewhere, but thatís the very very basic gist of it.
      The suspension discussions that pyce created some threads on here was very interesting to read. And it seems far less people try using mk4s as lemons or cha(u)mp cars vs the mk1 to mk3 cars which look to be much easier to setup

    23. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:56 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      Didn't the mk4 2.0 have the piston ring problem and oil consumption? I take it those motors may consume a ton of oil, but even starving it, it won't die?
      I know the early MkIV 2.0s did. I would hope that the problem had been rectified in short order, but I don't know. The MkIIIs didn't have that issue, so I don't know why it changed but according to a friend who was a dealer tech at the time it absolutely changed at the beginning of MkIV production. He had torn some down (or maybe replaced the short block?) to fix them under warranty.

      It's such a simple problem to fix if you have the right parts, but I don't know if the rings were the same thickness as the ones on the MkIII. If they were it seems like it'd be as simple as using MkIII rings!
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    24. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 01:58 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by IJM View Post
      Sort of. The issue when the car is lowered substantially, the inside of the control arm where it attaches to the subframe is now lower than where the outside attaches to the ball joint. In other words, the control arm slopes upward as points toward the wheel rather than downward. This isn't a big deal when driving in a straight line, but as the outer front wheel's suspension compresses in a corner, the wheel actually gains positive camber and increases understeer. The solution is spindles with lower attachment points for the ball joint (and tie rod). You can use one off a TT, or for even more correction, H2Sport used to make custom ones that fixed the control arm angle issue on lowered cars. This is what I use.
      Not to pick on you, but the solution is a better car.

      The Mk6 Golf is such a step forward from the Mk4 cars it was the reason I came back to the brand.
      Matt
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    25. Member Rockerchick's Avatar
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      07-11-2019 02:09 PM #99
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      Didn't the mk4 2.0 have the piston ring problem and oil consumption? I take it those motors may consume a ton of oil, but even starving it, it won't die?
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I know the early MkIV 2.0s did. I would hope that the problem had been rectified in short order, but I don't know. The MkIIIs didn't have that issue, so I don't know why it changed but according to a friend who was a dealer tech at the time it absolutely changed at the beginning of MkIV production. He had torn some down (or maybe replaced the short block?) to fix them under warranty.

      It's such a simple problem to fix if you have the right parts, but I don't know if the rings were the same thickness as the ones on the MkIII. If they were it seems like it'd be as simple as using MkIII rings!
      It certainly was a rumor at least. I hadn't seen the issue myself in person, but I definitely heard about it and saw the warnings about it over the years. I had one ('99 New Beetle) and had zero oil consumption problems. Ran like a top for the 6 1/2 years I had it. Solid for sure.

      Talking about trims, the mk4's, mostly the early ones, were really weird with options. My New Beetle was a GL 2.0L 5-speed, so super base model. I had power mirrors but crank windows. Hubcaps. No cruise control. My husband picked up a 2001 Jetta TDI, GL as well. It was the only mk4 I ever saw with manual mirrors! I figured with mine being a GL and power that all GLs would have power, so we were both surprised at that. It also had crank windows, but an automatic trans, alloys, and cruise control. Such an odd combination of options.
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
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      07-11-2019 02:19 PM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      Not to pick on you, but the solution is a better car.

      The Mk6 Golf is such a step forward from the Mk4 cars it was the reason I came back to the brand.
      Mk6 has same problem as described above with the suspension

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