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    1. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 07:31 AM #26
      Very, very fortified from rust. Ultimately the 1.8t is the most temperamental and the VR has chain issues.



      Great cars if you want something cheap, nice (as in quiet/rides well/comfortable) and somewhat fun to drive. I like them, but I'm biased as I had a LOADED GLX VR6 with "wood" grain, leather (the seats were excellent), climatronic and the MFD. Best $2500 manual daily you could want.





      Not mine but photobucket sucks. No, I'm not proud to host on photobucket.
      Last edited by 88c900t; 07-09-2019 at 07:33 AM.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

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    3. Member
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      07-09-2019 07:45 AM #27
      I definitely see more Mk4's than I see Mk5's on the road these days.

    4. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      2 Manuel Turbo Wagons... One is incredibly slow.
      07-09-2019 08:18 AM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      "Oh noes, vwvortex MK4 lovers have finally found me. They are going to force me to grow a rocking beard, get trendy tattoos, and wear skinny jeans!"
      My beard is not rocking. I have no tattoos, trendy, or otherwise. I do not fit into skinny jeans, or skinny 3/4 capris. But I do love my 17 year old Mk4 that just turned over 200,000 miles.

      What you are seeing is the difference between a "Reliable" car, which they are not, and a "Durable" car, which they are. They are built well and with proper care, maintenance, and a few replacement parts, they will continue to go for a long time.
      At this point, the Mk4 owners who modified their cars and beat them to hell, and then whined about how they were unreliable, or handled like a bag of dicks, have moved on, and their cars are in the scrap yard.
      What are left are people who have a realistic view of what's needed to keep them serviceable, and how to do it.

      Still the ultimate Costco trolley. And yes... still on stock(ish) suspension with a half inch lift. It will corner more comfortably and drama free at 11/tents than either of my 2 track cars will at 7/tents.

      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

    5. Member 1.8T B5 P's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:19 AM #29
      Since VW produced so many MK4 cars, I think its the mechanically inclined people who are realizing they can buy them for dirt cheap and with a little bit of elbow grease...they could have a nice beater.

      There's parts for these things everywhere and not to mention, it seems like almost every MK4 part has been reproduced by some eBay company. Although the quality might not be there, but for cheap parts why not? Same reason people buy harbor freight tools.

      Here's my 2003 GLi that gets driven 80 miles day looks like. Also just turned over to 200k this AM.


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    6. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:19 AM #30
      They're simple to work on, cheap to find parts for, and the car structure itself is like a bank vault. Also, they weren't that bad (actually damn good), but the internet can exaggerate things
      Audi TT FAQ -- Outback EJ20Y swap

      Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Campbell
      I mean, there are two Darren Stevens, right? Dick York and Dick Sargeant. Shyeah, right, as if we wouldn't notice. Oh, hold on! Dick York, Dick Sergeant, Sergeant York...wow, that's weird.

    7. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:25 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      What you are seeing is the difference between a "Reliable" car, which they are not, and a "Durable" car, which they are. They are built well and with proper care, maintenance, and a few replacement parts, they will continue to go for a long time.
      Exactly. They're relatively cheap to fix when they do break, but then they soldier on.

      They're also pretty good in a collision, which was quite new for the era. The New Beetle was the safest small car ever tested and even did exceptionally well in the 5mph "pole" test.


      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      They're simple to work on, cheap to find parts for, and the car structure itself is like a bank vault. Also, they weren't that bad (actually damn good), but the internet can exaggerate things
      They're good in many ways, and while the internet does indeed exaggerate things I never really wanted one because the problems are legit, especially the 1.8t which I would gravitate towards.







      How are the automatics paired with the 2.0? Asking for a friend.
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    8. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:28 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Veedubgti View Post
      I definitely see more Mk4's than I see Mk5's on the road these days.
      Oh I see MK5's everywhere.

      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Very, very fortified from rust. Ultimately the 1.8t is the most temperamental and the VR has chain issues.



      Great cars if you want something cheap, nice (as in quiet/rides well/comfortable) and somewhat fun to drive. I like them, but I'm biased as I had a LOADED GLX VR6 with "wood" grain, leather (the seats were excellent), climatronic and the MFD. Best $2500 manual daily you could want.
      How's the 2nd gear synchro? Mine was crapping out with less than 80k on the clock. I didn't love that transmission.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    9. Moderator 03_uni-B's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:28 AM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      I had this strange moment in traffic today... surrounded by FOUR MK4 Golfs/Jettas.
      At first I thought "Oh noes, vwvortex MK4 lovers have finally found me. They are going to force me to grow a rocking beard, get trendy tattoos, and wear skinny jeans!"
      But serious.. four.
      I noticed a few more too.
      Two were TDIs though.. which is probably what many of them are.
      I did not look to see if any had CELs.
      I've owned 4, and currently have a 3.2 swapped GLI. I can also confirm that I have no "rocking beard", "trendy tattoos", or "skinny jeans".

    10. Moderator 03_uni-B's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:30 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Very, very fortified from rust. Ultimately the 1.8t is the most temperamental and the VR has chain issues.
      I've owned 3 VRs. None with chain issues...

    11. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      2 Manuel Turbo Wagons... One is incredibly slow.
      07-09-2019 08:34 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Very, very fortified from rust
      Except for the front fenderwells, from which you can harvest a steady supply of good compost for the garden.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

    12. Member KingUnderpants's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 08:43 AM #36
      I had a 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition with the 1.8T. I think i had it for 7(ish) years, and during that time i never HAD to replace the coilpacks. I feel like i'm the only one.

    13. Junior Member
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      07-09-2019 08:56 AM #37
      I used to have a 2003 Jetta Wolfsburg that I bought new and loved it at the time. This is back when VWs were nicer than the comparable cars in their class. They had a solid feel with nice interiors. Times seem to have changed! Even though the Mk4 was generally plagued with problems I never really had too many issues with mine the way others did. With that said, I never see these on the road anymore. It's been a while since I've spotted one in the wild.

      Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

    14. 07-09-2019 08:59 AM #38
      That galvanized body, baby!
      I've had a handful, and I want another.
      Mk4 Golf remains one of my favorite designs.
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      Dub Cult | Simply Clean | MK3 Squad

    15. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:02 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by chris89topher View Post
      This is back when VWs were nicer than the comparable cars in their class. They had a solid feel with nice interiors. Times seem to have changed!
      Have they? The Golf based products at least are still really nice products. Although, if any car earns the title of "surprisingly nice economy car" today, it might be the Mazda3.


    16. Member lorge1989's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:02 AM #40
      I would agree that they are durable cars, but they definitely need up keep. Most of the ones I see around now are completely beat.

      I owned a 20AE GTI during my ****head college years. Got rid of it in 2010 and bought a beater 2003 TDI wagon 18 months ago.

      -Purchased for $1200
      -Needed a new battery and a vnt actuator right away, plus disassembly.
      -Power steering line was leaking, simple fix with welder

      After a year, I decided to throw more money at a 230K ****box and...
      -Struts/shocks, brakes, rear brake lines, rear brake calipers, control arm bushings, ball joints, tie rods.
      -Replaced front half of rockers on each side
      -Used replacement fenders, same paint code.

      I have put 22K on the car in 18 months. I netted a hand calculated 48 MPG from Buffalo to Lake Placid and back last fall. I usually see around 40, on my short regular commute. I have to get a running start for any overtaking on two lane roads, but other than that the car is a blast. Not really, but its cheap and it gets me and my bikes anywhere I need to go. I also can carry 10' pieces of lumber home from home depot.

    17. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:03 AM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by 03_uni-B View Post
      I've owned 3 VRs. None with chain issues...
      Don't the guides/tensioners go out at high mileage?

      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Except for the front fenderwells, from which you can harvest a steady supply of good compost for the garden.
      That wasn't an issue on mine, but that was several years ago. I heard diesels are the worst due to additional sound deadening trapping moisture.


      Quote Originally Posted by TangoRed View Post
      Oh I see MK5's everywhere.



      How's the 2nd gear synchro? Mine was crapping out with less than 80k on the clock. I didn't love that transmission.
      MK5s have the benefit of the 5-popper and an automatic that isn't terrible.

      My transmission was fine at 166K miles when I sold it. Maybe you/a previous owner liked to powershift it, who knows?
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    18. Member
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      07-09-2019 09:04 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Veedubgti View Post
      I definitely see more Mk4's than I see Mk5's on the road these days.
      I agree. Mk4s might have been a tad more finicky, but I think they had fewer of the ~$1k+ issues that might end up putting the cars of the less dedicated into junkyards.

      On another note, for those that keep their Mk5s...many junkyards have toooons of cheap parts for this reason. My best score was a 3k mile steering rack for 60 bucks.

    19. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:06 AM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by lorge1989 View Post
      -Replaced front half of rockers on each side
      -Used replacement fenders, same paint code.
      How much was that if you don't mind my asking? Mine aren't that bad, but are definitely starting to bubble up.

    20. Member MontoyaF1's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:07 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by IJM View Post
      To be fair, crap coilpacks was more of a 1.8T problem than a MkIV-wide issue.
      The coilpack was the first thing to go wrong on my Mk4 Jetta VR6!
      Learn what the bible really says about the End Times:

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    21. Member lorge1989's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:09 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by r_fostoria View Post
      How much was that if you don't mind my asking? Mine aren't that bad, but are definitely starting to bubble up.
      I did it myself. It took way too long.

      If they are bubbling, clean out the debris behind the fender liner, strip away the loose paint and any loose rust. POR those areas well, top coat with undercoat and then rattle can color matched paint. It should last a while. The front of my drivers rocker was eaten away like 6" back. It would catch slush when driving in the winter.

      I found fenders on the TDI classifieds on FB. I think I got them for about $150 shipped.

    22. Member r_fostoria's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:15 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      What you are seeing is the difference between a "Reliable" car, which they are not, and a "Durable" car, which they are.
      Ah, the ol' Cutlass Ciera effect.



      Also, this:


    23. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:16 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by lorge1989 View Post
      If they are bubbling, clean out the debris behind the fender liner, strip away the loose paint and any loose rust. POR those areas well, top coat with undercoat and then rattle can color matched paint. It should last a while.
      Exactly what I did 2 years ago when I forgot to clean the fenderwells for too long. Fortunately, I caught it early and the worst rust was some tiny spots on the q-panel. The chassis was just a bit of surface.
      Some dremel work and POR-15, and it's been good since.

      I cut trailing edge drains into the fender liner, and mudflaps, so there's somewhere for the sand/silt to go, but it's still protected from direct tire spray.
      I keep up with traffic with only 90 hp. What's your superpower?
      2002 Golf Wagon TDI, 200k - 2007 Fuji Heavy Industries WRB WRX Wagon, 115k
      Past: 1996 Surf Green GTI VR6 - 1985 Golf 1.8L - No Trim Level Edition

      Grammatical and spelling errors may be intentional

    24. Member lorge1989's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:19 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by Surf Green View Post
      Exactly what I did 2 years ago when I forgot to clean the fenderwells for too long. Fortunately, I caught it early and the worst rust was some tiny spots on the q-panel. The chassis was just a bit of surface.
      Some dremel work and POR-15, and it's been good since.

      I cut trailing edge drains into the fender liner, and mudflaps, so there's somewhere for the sand/silt to go, but it's still protected from direct tire spray.
      Sounds like you are on top of it. Mine were absolutely destroyed when I got the car. The amount of salt used up here is not friendly to any metal.

    25. Member TangoRed's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 09:29 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post

      My transmission was fine at 166K miles when I sold it. Maybe you/a previous owner liked to powershift it, who knows?
      Interesting. Second gear grinding was listed as a common problem with VR6 based on this forum and others- I knew about it even before I bought my particular car used. Oh well, babying the 1-2 shift probably kept me out of trouble when I was 16.
      Quote Originally Posted by Doug Butabi View Post
      And on the tenth day of the two thousand fifteenth year, TCL finds out about rich people.

    26. Member Rockerchick's Avatar
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      07-09-2019 10:44 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by KingUnderpants View Post
      I had a 2001 Jetta Wolfsburg Edition with the 1.8T. I think i had it for 7(ish) years, and during that time i never HAD to replace the coilpacks. I feel like i'm the only one.
      20th Anniversary GTI owner here. Coming up on 8 years of ownership. Got it with 113k on it, now has 176k on it. No coilpack replacements, though IIRC, it had the recall done for them before I got the car. My biggest issue has been water leaks. Sunroof drains, windshield cowl, and now I think a door seal is letting water in.

      Its been sitting for 6 months since I picked up a mk7 GTI for a daily. But we're going to get a few things fixed on it and it should be good for a bit again. Its been a great car. I do like the description of them being durable, but not necessarily reliable. We do our own work, so it hasn't been too bad to keep up with the various mk4's we've had, but they certainly aren't problem free. The '99 New Beetle 2.0 5-speed I had was a great and didn't need much (had it 6 1/2 year and 50k before a Prius took it out ). This 20th has definitely required more, but I've also modded it. Its been a really fun car for sure.
      Quote Originally Posted by TM87 View Post
      VW-making mechanics out of owners since 1957.
      The Long Term Resident - '84 Jetta 1.6TD
      The Project/Future Wheelbarrow - '82 Rabbit Pickup, Supercharged ABA
      Hers - '16 GTI Autobahn PP, '03 BMP 20thAE GTI
      His - '15 Audi A3 2.0T Quattro

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