Fourtitude.com - Motronic needs to go..Standalone it is...but which one? AEM,Haltech,Link,Ignitron etc....
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    1. Member vdubguy97's Avatar
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      07-04-2019 08:17 AM #1
      Story goes tired off motronic tuning company’s and the lack luster satisfaction with big turbo tuning.

      I have tried them all...Revo when it first came out..pig rich junk...Then onto Unitronic when it first started which was much better then Revo but gave up quick on support..Then tried Eurodyne Maestro honestly not bad but I’m not a tuner an don’t want to be so done with that...Currently have Gonzo tuning which honestly is pretty good but the support is horrendous...


      So now it’s time to switch to a real engine management software that can be dyno tuned by my local tuner. http://maseengineering.com/services/

      Talking with him he is familiar with all the following minus the ignitron and can tune all of them, he said preference is up to me on which one...side note he was pretty curious about the ignitron.

      I have been googling all of these for the past two months and they all have my interest and lots of good reviews from other manufactures. Just would like to hear feedback if there is any personal use on our platforms

      So hear is a list of the ones I have been looking at..was hoping for some path to take on which one to purchase..

      Link Engine management aka vi-pec

      http://dealers.linkecu.com/iPA1_2

      Ignitron ECU...looks very capable and user friendly

      http://www.ignitronecu.com/?page=product1&lang=en

      Haltech ecu..we all know that name

      https://www.haltech.com/product/ht-1...nly-2001-2006/

      AEM infinity..

      https://www.aemelectronics.com/forum...-golfjetta-18t


      Happy 4th
      Speed Kills.Save Your Life.Drive a Honda.


      Shearer Fabrications.Garrett/HTA.Southbend.INA Engineering. Integrated Engineering.JE Pistons.Gonzo Tuning.Precision.Autotech cam.

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    3. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      07-04-2019 10:44 AM #2
      I love ignitron but you don't want to be a tuner so you've already stated you stance.

      So what's this thread about if you don't want to tune but you're going standalone?

      Seriously though, ignitron is incredible

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      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

    4. Member vdubguy97's Avatar
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      07-04-2019 12:59 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      I love ignitron but you don't want to be a tuner so you've already stated you stance.

      So what's this thread about if you don't want to tune but you're going standalone?

      Seriously though, ignitron is incredible

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

      The thread is started to help others as well as me who don’t want to spend the time tuning themselves.


      You know the quote. “I pay your for what you know and you pay me for what I know”



      It seems to me(which I’m stupid when it comes to computers and software tuning) that the 1.8t engine ecu aftermarket choices have grown exponentially since its inception. I was hoping to have some feedback for me as well as others to decide in the future.

      I know you “vegata” know how to tune a wide variety of ecu platforms but for some of us we just rather fork out our hard earned money to have the engine calibrated professionally and correctly.


      Do you “Vegeta” believe someone who is capable of tuning a variety of engine management will be able to understand Ignitron ecu? Or is that ecu very motronic language like?

      Again I am stupid when it comes to this part of the vehicle.
      Speed Kills.Save Your Life.Drive a Honda.


      Shearer Fabrications.Garrett/HTA.Southbend.INA Engineering. Integrated Engineering.JE Pistons.Gonzo Tuning.Precision.Autotech cam.

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    6. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      07-04-2019 10:03 PM #4
      Ok, so why not pay someone to tune your maestro? Guys like dave926 are incredible tuners, I would suggest not using mabotech. Just my opinion.

      Ignitron is far more advanced, yet simpler than maestro. I know, lol. It's a direct plug in, built for the 1.8t, standalone ECU that resembles some things motronic but is much more standalone. Straightforward and Duke, yet complex and expansive.

      Motronic to these day, the me7.5, is still way ahead of its time. Wewr just got shafted with maestro, it's incredibly unfinished and the VAG world is very immature to the world of actual ecu calibration and tuning.

      If you're willing to find and pay a reliable and reputable professional tuner(think $1400 minimum for dyno time and tuner rate) then you'll be incredibly happy with any standalone. But research the hell out of it. Badger can probably give you a base file to start with to give get it to your tuner.

      Do it on during the hottest time of year, be overzealous in preparing your car mechanically to ensure 100% solidarity, and do as they request.
      With ignitron you don't need to wire/pin in extra sensors from the management manufacturer like aem and vipec. Haltec is designed for stick setup but can very much handle more and you can add on components. The latter 3 require a harness that is sold separately or included with the management.

      If any of that sounds like it's too much. Stick to oem ECU. I still run my GTS ecu, runs incredibly. And yes, he's so very hard to get in touch with and so on. Sucks because he's a very talented guy.

      This exact subject has actually been covered extensively on here, other forums and on multiple Facebook pages up to this day.

      I'm not talking down, I'm not talking ****. I'm telling the truth. Informing from an experienced and educated POV.

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      Last edited by Vegeta Gti; 07-04-2019 at 10:06 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

    7. 07-06-2019 10:18 PM #5
      I’ve found Eurodyne to be... idk not great. But it does the job. I do wish it was less buggy. But w/e I suppose. There are other options to tune Bosch ME’s.

      A stand alone will not come with the perfect tune for your setup. I think the money spent on a different style ME could be spent to hire someone to tune it right.

      ME 7.5 is fairly tunable/hackable. There’s people (Gonzo included) that have reverse engineered it to do several things like boost by gear. It can be done.

      I’m just afraid you may think a stand alone is a magic bullet but it’s all about the calibration at the end of the day.

    8. Member vdubguy97's Avatar
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      07-07-2019 06:28 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post

      . Motronic to these day, the me7.5, is still way ahead of its time.
      Quote Originally Posted by brunjc2 View Post

      ME 7.5 is fairly tunable/hackable. There’s people (Gonzo included) that have reverse engineered it to do several things like boost by gear. It can be done.

      I’m just afraid you may think a stand alone is a magic bullet but it’s all about the calibration at the end of the day.

      Couldn’t agree more as Motronic me 7.5 is extremely advanced and fully capable of tuning an excellent well rounded machine.



      I do think my Gonzo tune is a very good tune....there just happens to be some things that need to get addressed and communication in non existent. Honestly it’s a little sad he has “disappeared”, he seems very smart and could have an outstanding business with excellent tunes.


      The magic bullet is somewhat true when it comes to most of the standalone ECUs...Reputable company’s with years and years of experience and a network of individual tuners who are familiar and very capable with above mentioned products..

      My opinion which is worth nothing honestly is that the motronic tuners(1.8t was a money maker)produced a product albeit kinda rough made there money and leaped to the next generation and turned a cold shoulder to the people. I get it that’s business and good for them on making money and developing a company..but it’s time to get something that will stand the test of time..
      Speed Kills.Save Your Life.Drive a Honda.


      Shearer Fabrications.Garrett/HTA.Southbend.INA Engineering. Integrated Engineering.JE Pistons.Gonzo Tuning.Precision.Autotech cam.

    9. 07-07-2019 03:57 PM #7
      I'm 100% with Vegeta GTI: go Ignitron..
      full direct swap, and capable of soo much... more failsafes then the ME7.5, autotune, easier to set up, changes can be done on the fly, on-board logging, Haldex control, DSG control etc etc etc....

    10. 07-07-2019 05:22 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by CorrieG60 View Post
      I'm 100% with Vegeta GTI: go Ignitron..
      full direct swap, and capable of soo much... more failsafes then the ME7.5, autotune, easier to set up, changes can be done on the fly, on-board logging, Haldex control, DSG control etc etc etc....
      Just looked at the ignitron setup—that does look tempting. Big selling points are it’s ability to communicate to factory ECUs (abs/cluster/etc)

    11. Member vdubguy97's Avatar
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      07-07-2019 06:25 PM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by CorrieG60 View Post
      I'm 100% with Vegeta GTI: go Ignitronc.

      That is so far seems like the best option and easiest to setup/tune..(Just kinda optimistic to give my money to a company far far away and with no stateside support)


      You know what sucks is that I have seen the end of rainbow from all these previous company’s and the ride is great for a short time...which sucks for all of us not just me...then the bottom drops out and you’re left with another grand flushed down the toilet....


      Maybe I am just jaded working with Porsche tuners for the past 15 years daily and the support is always exceptional..


      Honestly I would like to keep my Gonzo tune and work out the final kinks and be done with it..........it just sucks that he disappeared or vanished.
      Speed Kills.Save Your Life.Drive a Honda.


      Shearer Fabrications.Garrett/HTA.Southbend.INA Engineering. Integrated Engineering.JE Pistons.Gonzo Tuning.Precision.Autotech cam.

    12. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      07-07-2019 07:22 PM #10
      Ignitron is incredible.

      Maestro is a very slow, yet can be very capable. But.. for $1000... you can get ignitron..... and so soooo much more. I'm awaiting an ignitron unit for a buddy. Really excited to see what his car OS truly capable of. He's currently maestro.

      Wideband added TT. 2.0l, CP pistons, ARP main studs, head studs, rod fasteners. Calico main and rod bearings. Fully built IE smallport head with stock cams. Genesis 2 1000cc. 034 intake manifold with grams 70mm tb. Pagparts vband kit, gen2 gtx2867 .72 ar, 3" turbo back. Race haldex controller, peloquin front lsd, Porsche boxsrer brakes etc. Etc. Etc..

      19psi on 93 on a lovely 97* 90%+ humidity day, with a very conservative tune i did on maestro, it made 358whp. Ignitron iit should not only be smoother but make more per and not take nearly as long.

      I love my gonzo ecu. Ive been running it since 2012. I had the haltec bbut i kept having issues with it. After the second replacement, I recieved a refund. Ignitron is the cats behind.

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      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

    13. 07-07-2019 07:28 PM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      Ignitron is incredible.

      Maestro is a very slow, yet can be very capable. But.. for $1000... you can get ignitron..... and so soooo much more. I'm awaiting an ignitron unit for a buddy. Really excited to see what his car OS truly capable of. He's currently maestro.

      Wideband added TT. 2.0l, CP pistons, ARP main studs, head studs, rod fasteners. Calico main and rod bearings. Fully built IE smallport head with stock cams. Genesis 2 1000cc. 034 intake manifold with grams 70mm tb. Pagparts vband kit, gen2 gtx2867 .72 ar, 3" turbo back. Race haldex controller, peloquin front lsd, Porsche boxsrer brakes etc. Etc. Etc..

      19psi on 93 on a lovely 97* 90%+ humidity day, with a very conservative tune i did on maestro, it made 358whp. Ignitron iit should not only be smoother but make more per and not take nearly as long.

      I love my gonzo ecu. Ive been running it since 2012. I had the haltec bbut i kept having issues with it. After the second replacement, I recieved a refund. Ignitron is the cats behind.

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
      Holy cow I’m going to buy one.

    14. 07-08-2019 08:46 AM #12
      the guys at Ignitron are working on stateside support!!

    15. Member vdubguy97's Avatar
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      07-08-2019 09:07 PM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      Ignitron is incredible.

      I love my gonzo ecu. Ive been running it since 2012. I had the haltec bbut i kept having issues with it. After the second replacement, I recieved a refund. Ignitron is the cats behind.

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


      I have had my Gonzo tune for just as long and it is good.

      Kinda sucks about the Haltech ecu...the rotary guys swear buy them and they seem very capable.



      Quote Originally Posted by CorrieG60 View Post
      the guys at Ignitron are working on stateside support!!

      That is the statement I want to hear.

      Talked to Badger5 and he is the UK dealer and had excellent things to say about Ignitron as well..




      Side note..I downloaded the ignitron full software just to look and was throughly impressed with the options and the pure simplicity it looks like to use. I like the idea of running a true MAP sensor off the manifold...i couldn’t believe for a base startup file you just click on drop down menus with appropriate Oem VAG parts numbers, enter in your injector cc’s. And off you go.


      I believe Vegeta you have sold me on the ignitron ecu..
      Speed Kills.Save Your Life.Drive a Honda.


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    16. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      07-10-2019 10:12 AM #14
      I have an ignitron in the the shopping as of last night......


      It's definitely the cats ass. I'm very excited.

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      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

    17. Member
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      07-10-2019 04:19 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta Gti View Post
      I have an ignitron in the the shopping as of last night......


      It's definitely the cats ass. I'm very excited.

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
      I was going to go with the Link G4+ ECU (i.e.: Vipec) since it's a direct plugin replacement, but after previewing the Ignitron Software, I may be getting that instead for my MK1 project.
      MK1 Build Thread. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    18. 07-11-2019 02:17 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by mainstayinc View Post
      I was going to go with the Link G4+ ECU (i.e.: Vipec) since it's a direct plugin replacement, but after previewing the Ignitron Software, I may be getting that instead for my MK1 project.
      Are you planning on running a digital dash via CAN bus from that ECU? If so, do you have any in mind you could share? Thanks!

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      07-11-2019 04:43 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by brunjc2 View Post
      Are you planning on running a digital dash via CAN bus from that ECU? If so, do you have any in mind you could share? Thanks!
      I am actually writing my own Haldex controller which will double as a gauge display (boost, speed, throttle position etc.). I prefer to wire directly to engine sensors but intend to have CAN bus support provided it's fast enough. The Ignitron ECU can output CAN data but only at 33 Hz. That good enough for a gauge display but may be slow for the controller. I contacted Ignitron and spoke with Balazs about general purpose outputs (GPO's) and PWM outputs. Apparently, the Ignitron ECU currently only has 1 PWM output to control things like a nitrous solenoid. The Link G4+ ECU, on the other hand, has much more capability. You can setup conditions (i.e.: speed > 4000 RPMs) and then output a GPO to trigger a switch or even output a 3D PWM table based on engine speed, boost etc. That will allow me to extend the capability of the Haldex controller and do things like traction-by-gear etc. This project is still very much in the development stage but I hope to have some kind of working controller sooner than later. If I only want to display gauges, both the Ignitron ECU and Link G4+ ECU can be connected to a small laptop via USB cable to display gauges directly from their software.

      Ignitron Software
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    20. 07-11-2019 06:18 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by mainstayinc View Post
      I am actually writing my own Haldex controller which will double as a gauge display (boost, speed, throttle position etc.). I prefer to wire directly to engine sensors but intend to have CAN bus support provided it's fast enough. The Ignitron ECU can output CAN data but only at 33 Hz. That good enough for a gauge display but may be slow for the controller. I contacted Ignitron and spoke with Balazs about general purpose outputs (GPO's) and PWM outputs. Apparently, the Ignitron ECU currently only has 1 PWM output to control things like a nitrous solenoid. The Link G4+ ECU, on the other hand, has much more capability. You can setup conditions (i.e.: speed > 4000 RPMs) and then output a GPO to trigger a switch or even output a 3D PWM table based on engine speed, boost etc. That will allow me to extend the capability of the Haldex controller and do things like traction-by-gear etc. This project is still very much in the development stage but I hope to have some kind of working controller sooner than later. If I only want to display gauges, both the Ignitron ECU and Link G4+ ECU can be connected to a small laptop via USB cable to display gauges directly from their software.

      Ignitron Software

      CAN bus is plenty fast enough. If you are really worried about speed and data payload, look into CAN FD, although I think classical CAN will be plenty capable. Most OEM's broadcast critical chassis/engine data every 10ms @500k baud rate or so. So 33Hz == ~30ms may or may not be fast enough. Surprised about that limit. Certainly fast enough for gauges, though. Have you considered using the built-in Haldex controller in Ignitron?

      As for gauges, myself I was looking into something like this or similar.

    21. Member
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      07-11-2019 06:37 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by brunjc2 View Post
      CAN bus is plenty fast enough. If you are really worried about speed and data payload, look into CAN FD, although I think classical CAN will be plenty capable. Most OEM's broadcast critical chassis/engine data every 10ms @500k baud rate or so. So 33Hz == ~30ms may or may not be fast enough. Surprised about that limit. Certainly fast enough for gauges, though. Have you considered using the built-in Haldex controller in Ignitron?

      As for gauges, myself I was looking into something like this or similar.
      I'll have to check into that. I don't plan to use the MK4 wiring harness in the MK1 except for the engine harness. That means no wheel sensor data etc. to detect slip and engage Haldex. Ideally, I would like proactive Haldex control that doesn't react to different driving situations but is fully programmable by the user based on TPS, MAP, VSS etc. Not sure if the Ignitron ECU is able to do that. It would be great if that were the case since that would save me from having to do all the programming. Not that I don't mind that though. I know that there are other Haldex controllers out there that do what I described. But I think those can be improved upon.
      MK1 Build Thread. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

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      07-11-2019 06:42 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by brunjc2 View Post
      CAN bus is plenty fast enough. If you are really worried about speed and data payload, look into CAN FD, although I think classical CAN will be plenty capable. Most OEM's broadcast critical chassis/engine data every 10ms @500k baud rate or so. So 33Hz == ~30ms may or may not be fast enough. Surprised about that limit. Certainly fast enough for gauges, though. Have you considered using the built-in Haldex controller in Ignitron?

      As for gauges, myself I was looking into something like this or similar.


      I have a 160 MPH, 8000 RPM gauge cluster from an MK2 16V that I plan on swapping into the MK1 dashboard. Any digital gauges will be auxiliary for me. Do you have details or a link to your project?
      MK1 Build Thread. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    23. 07-11-2019 07:08 PM #21
      Don't overlook the link, it has some very cool features.

      Ecumaster will do dsg and haldex control too. If those are options you might need in the future.

    24. 07-11-2019 07:10 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by mainstayinc View Post
      [/B]

      I have a 160 MPH, 8000 RPM gauge cluster from an MK2 16V that I plan on swapping into the MK1 dashboard. Any digital gauges will be auxiliary for me. Do you have details or a link to your project?
      That's pretty rad.

      Everything at the moment is preliminary. I do have a build thread located here, but I haven't updated it in awhile. Arnold @PAG is completing a 2L setup, and I plan to run it to 8200-8500 RPM, and a MKIV cluster obviously isn't going to do the job. I was contemplating hacking and rescaling the ECU, and getting a new faceplate, but a digital dash will prob be the easy and inexpensive route (all said and done), and I can also adjust it to my needs. I've never been a fan of cluttered gauges on the interior of a car. This would maintain a simple and "clean" look. And it looks like Ignitron may be easy to integrate with such.

      I was still thinking about doing that with the ME7.5, but a good deal of reverse engineering to decipher CAN bus messages would be necessary.

      And don't get me wrong, the ME is a wonderful device, but OTS calibration tools for it are woefully inept in my very honest opinion. You have your Maestro and such, that is OK in the sense that you have the ability to alter *some* parameters of it, but the user interface and user experience is downright horrid. How many times have I grabbed my PC and took a ride in my car to take logs, and as I open the Maestro SW alongside the road it tells me there is a new version available, and it will not boot until I download it. Wasted trip. Ughhhhh the agony. I am certain this has to do with licensing as well. And some inputs and parameters are downright incorrect, and my emails, while responded to in a timely manor, are unaccommodating.

      Then you have NefMoto (flashing) and TunerPro (IIRC, for hex/s19 file calibration) that are good but very verbose and not very approachable unless you have a background of micro controller assembly language.

      Sorry for the rant. Truth be told, I create calibration and data acquisition software for the automotive sector for a living, but it is more OEM/supplier focused. I am tough to impress in this field. So paying $800 for an OK-ish platform with obvious issues has been painful.

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      07-11-2019 08:59 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by brunjc2 View Post
      That's pretty rad.

      Everything at the moment is preliminary. I do have a build thread located here, but I haven't updated it in awhile. Arnold @PAG is completing a 2L setup, and I plan to run it to 8200-8500 RPM, and a MKIV cluster obviously isn't going to do the job. I was contemplating hacking and rescaling the ECU, and getting a new faceplate, but a digital dash will prob be the easy and inexpensive route (all said and done), and I can also adjust it to my needs. I've never been a fan of cluttered gauges on the interior of a car. This would maintain a simple and "clean" look. And it looks like Ignitron may be easy to integrate with such.

      I was still thinking about doing that with the ME7.5, but a good deal of reverse engineering to decipher CAN bus messages would be necessary.

      And don't get me wrong, the ME is a wonderful device, but OTS calibration tools for it are woefully inept in my very honest opinion. You have your Maestro and such, that is OK in the sense that you have the ability to alter *some* parameters of it, but the user interface and user experience is downright horrid. How many times have I grabbed my PC and took a ride in my car to take logs, and as I open the Maestro SW alongside the road it tells me there is a new version available, and it will not boot until I download it. Wasted trip. Ughhhhh the agony. I am certain this has to do with licensing as well. And some inputs and parameters are downright incorrect, and my emails, while responded to in a timely manor, are unaccommodating.

      Then you have NefMoto (flashing) and TunerPro (IIRC, for hex/s19 file calibration) that are good but very verbose and not very approachable unless you have a background of micro controller assembly language.

      Sorry for the rant. Truth be told, I create calibration and data acquisition software for the automotive sector for a living, but it is more OEM/supplier focused. I am tough to impress in this field. So paying $800 for an OK-ish platform with obvious issues has been painful.
      I agree that a digital dash will be the easiest and least expensive route in this situation. BTW I may have to tap into your knowledge at some point when I try to interface with CAN bus. Re-reading your build threat ATM.
      MK1 Build Thread. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    26. Member
      Join Date
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      07-11-2019 09:05 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Slowgti-reboot View Post
      Don't overlook the link, it has some very cool features.

      Ecumaster will do dsg and haldex control too. If those are options you might need in the future.
      Thanks for tip.
      MK1 Build Thread. Why Hell Must Be Eternal. Scientific Evidence for God. "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

    27. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      07-12-2019 12:00 PM #25
      The link is great and on a different kernel most ourselves in here won't utilize or want to spend the money on then wire things into it, etc. I would love that but having to add several things that i don't NEED tti change, aare what's keeping ne from going link.


      I will be trying to utilize the simplicity ive taken with #GHOST since day 1. Which in motorsports helps when you're broke af like I am lol and doing it all #DIYorDIE

      I'm using a tablet but will be going with an AIM unit in the future for dash.

      Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
      :HOMEGROWN MOTORSPORTS..SingerVehicleDesign...1:4.9 SuaSponte #13Dead Rabbits. Ungluck on IG. MKIforLife
      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

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