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    1. Member weirdajs's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 03:27 PM #1
      Using a $300 software-defined radio, a security researcher says he has figured out how to take control of some of Ford’s newer and higher-end cars and trucks.

      Through a radio frequency capture-and-manipulation technique he described to The Parallax, Dale “Woody” Wooden, the founder and president of Weathered Security, says a hacker could unlock a Ford vehicle, interfere with its onboard computer systems, and even start its engine. A successful hack on its own isn’t likely to result in stolen vehicles, however: Wooden’s exploit does not deactivate a car’s immobilizer.

      Wooden’s methodology is unusual for this kind of key fob replay attack. “I’ve never heard of someone using multiple key fobs and manipulating the protocol in the RF spectrum by having the receiving machine reset its rolling codes,” he says.

      Wooden says the vulnerability he’s learned to exploit affects the key fobs of 2019 Ford F-150 Raptors and 2019 Ford Mustangs, which use a radio frequency in the lower 900MHz spectrum, and the key fobs of at least one slightly older model, the 2017 Ford Expedition, which uses 315MHz.

      As seen in the video below, Wooden demonstrates the hack working from the third-floor balcony of a hotel within eyesight of a 2019 Ford Mustang test car. Wooden describes himself as a proud owner of a 2019 Ford F-150 Raptor pickup, on which he also successfully tested the hack.
      Link to the full article

      https://the-parallax.com/2019/05/03/...vulnerability/









      Here is a few of videos from Hak5 showing what hack can do to your Ford vehicle.
      Last edited by weirdajs; 06-24-2019 at 10:52 PM.

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    3. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 04:15 PM #2
      The longer I've worked with technology, the more convinced I am that there's very few things that can truly be made secure. I'm not even surprised anymore when I see stories about brand new vehicles having their security systems hacked, it seems inevitable. I'm sure you could make them more secure, but they're already honestly a lot more secure than the old days when a coat hanger and screwdriver would let you steal a car. At least tools like this are harder and more expensive than coat hangers.

    4. Member mach250's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 05:35 PM #3
      convenience and security are not synonymous...if people really cared we'd still be opening our doors with keys instead of just walking up and getting in by grabbing the handle.

      not going to lie, I don't think I'd go back to keys but I don't live and work in rough areas where I need to worry about this.
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      06-24-2019 05:49 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by mach250 View Post
      convenience and security are not synonymous...if people really cared we'd still be opening our doors with keys instead of just walking up and getting in by grabbing the handle.

      not going to lie, I don't think I'd go back to keys but I don't live and work in rough areas where I need to worry about this.
      Yeah flat head screwdriver can get me into at least one of your cars in under 4 seconds...

      Physical door locks are not remotely secure.

    6. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 08:04 PM #5
      Rock in the window does the same thing as this hack... Not sure anyone will really go thru this trouble just to unlock a Mustang.

    7. Member LuckyDogg's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 08:20 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by mach250 View Post
      convenience and security are not synonymous
      x100

    8. Geriatric Member BRealistic's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 08:23 PM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      The longer I've worked with technology, the more convinced I am that there's very few things that can truly be made secure. I'm not even surprised anymore when I see stories about brand new vehicles having their security systems hacked, it seems inevitable. I'm sure you could make them more secure, but they're already honestly a lot more secure than the old days when a coat hanger and screwdriver would let you steal a car. At least tools like this are harder and more expensive than coat hangers.
      Honestly... I don't even remember the last "my car was stolen" story IRL.
      It's been that long ago.

    9. Member andlf's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 10:02 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Rock in the window does the same thing as this hack... Not sure anyone will really go thru this trouble just to unlock a Mustang.
      Maybe someone could hack a perimeter power-off frequency for crowd safety.
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    10. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 11:28 PM #9
      Read the article. I laughed, Alexa laughed, Siri laughed, the printer laughed and then I shot the printer.
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    11. Member weirdajs's Avatar
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      06-24-2019 11:29 PM #10
      A security researcher called Dale Wooden has discovered a potentially serious security issue with some of Ford’s higher-end cars and trucks that could allow a nefarious user to gain access and control vehicle functions. The Ford key fob hack uses a $300 gadget called a software-defined radio and Wooden says that the device could allow a hacker to unlock a Ford vehicle, interfere with onboard computer systems, and even start the engine.
      While the hack Wooden has devised highlights vulnerabilities that Ford may need to address, he is clear that his hack doesn’t deactivate the vehicle immobilizer and therefore isn’t likely to result in stolen vehicles. The Ford key fob hack impacts the key fobs on 2019 Ford F-150 Raptor trucks and 2019 Ford Mustangs, like the 2019 Ford Mustang Bullitt.

      Both of those vehicles use radio frequency in the lower 900MHz spectrum. The hack also works on the 2017 Ford Expedition that uses 315MHz frequency. Wooden demonstrates the hack being executed on a 2019 Ford Mustang test car while he stands on the third-floor balcony of a hotel well away from the vehicle. The Ford key fob hack can be executed from any distance as long as the car can receive the key fob signal.
      The hack required the software-defined radio to record the rolling code signal a key fob sends to the car during the moment the owner presses the unlock button. The signal is then replayed from the software-defined radio. By playing back that signal the owner’s key fob is disabled and can’t lock or unlock doors or open the trunk.

      The hacker then waits for someone to use a second key fob. During the window when a button on that second keyfob is pressed, the hacker can replay the signal recorded from the first fob resetting the counter on that first fob’s rolling code signals to the car. Any signal can then be recorded from Fob 1 giving the ability to use the software-defined radio to lock and unlock the doors, start the engine, open the trunk, and set off the alarm.

      A non-functioning fob is the best tip off your car has been hacked with this technique, which can be automated, says Wooden. Ford has stated it doesn’t make comments on actions it’s taking to ensure security. Wooden says Ford was very slow to respond when he notified it of the vulnerability.
      http://fordauthority.com/2019/05/sec...-key-fob-hack/

      Another Article about the Ford key fob hack. In the first Hak5 video Dale does a denial of service attack by not letting a person unlock the Ford. Basically disabling the owners key fob and they can’t lock or unlock doors or open the trunk. I think it is scary what hackers can do with a modern-day technology. Hackers already found ways to remotely kill a Jeep while driving on the highway and this is no different.

    12. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      Yesterday 09:16 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by BRealistic View Post
      Honestly... I don't even remember the last "my car was stolen" story IRL.
      It's been that long ago.
      Apparently you haven't been following the Hot Rod Power Tour.

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    13. Member rich!'s Avatar
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      Yesterday 09:19 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by mach250 View Post
      convenience and security are not synonymous...if people really cared we'd still be opening our doors with keys instead of just walking up and getting in by grabbing the handle.

      not going to lie, I don't think I'd go back to keys but I don't live and work in rough areas where I need to worry about this.
      its too organized down here and most car break-ins target nicer communities and upscale shopping centers (stalk and watch, neighbor ran in for pizza take out, smash and grab in <5 minutes; middle of afternoon - now just think if they are sitting in a parking lot scanning for keyfobs codes). Each week is some nestcam videos of pack of folks going car to car, they just rotate from one gated community to the next.

    14. Member Alpha-3's Avatar
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      Yesterday 09:36 AM #13
      Just out of curiosity - if one was ordering a new car, is it even possible to make the car puchase contingent on being able to have a key-type fob? With a key-style start in the steering column? Even if it cost you more, can it be done, would the dealer do it???
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    15. Moderator DanG's Avatar
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      Yesterday 10:23 AM #14
      How long till we can buy tinfoil hats for our FOB's?
      °.lllllll.° - Gone but not forgotten

    16. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      Yesterday 10:26 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by DanG View Post
      How long till we can buy tinfoil hats for our FOB's?
      Already available: https://www.amazon.com/faraday-cage-...e+for+car+keys

    17. Senior Member
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      Yesterday 10:41 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-3 View Post
      Just out of curiosity - if one was ordering a new car, is it even possible to make the car puchase contingent on being able to have a key-type fob? With a key-style start in the steering column? Even if it cost you more, can it be done, would the dealer do it???
      How is a physical key anymore secure?

      These types of hacks exist but are rare because they cost money. Screwdrivers are free to pennies and you can break into any car with one regardless of key type and you can certainly start just about any physical key car with one. You can break a steering lock in a physical key car or an electronic if ignition car.


      Cars are harder to steal today than the days oh physical keys no matter how easy these types of articles and videos make it seem.


      And the answer is no, especially now as the security systems are so central to the function of the car a dealer isn't going to hack and bypass it.

    18. Senior Member
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      Yesterday 10:44 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      Apparently you haven't been following the Hot Rod Power Tour.

      Chris
      Just give a physical key.... Oh wait.

    19. Member Alpha-3's Avatar
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      Yesterday 11:42 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      How is a physical key anymore secure?

      These types of hacks exist but are rare because they cost money. Screwdrivers are free to pennies and you can break into any car with one regardless of key type and you can certainly start just about any physical key car with one. You can break a steering lock in a physical key car or an electronic if ignition car.


      Cars are harder to steal today than the days oh physical keys no matter how easy these types of articles and videos make it seem.


      And the answer is no, especially now as the security systems are so central to the function of the car a dealer isn't going to hack and bypass it.
      Because, around here, its the keyless entry cars that are victimized almost exclusively. Therefore, it stands to reason its much easier to plunder one of those than a 'key' car. And really, if you have a big rock or something, there goes your windows. With a key, you have to defeat the immobilizer; I've seen proof on police video that if someone hacks one of these keyless cars, they can get in and drive away.
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    20. Senior Member
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      Yesterday 12:09 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpha-3 View Post
      Because, around here, its the keyless entry cars that are victimized almost exclusively.
      I highly doubt that, other than the keyless cars are the ones people want for parts or the ones most likely to have stuff inside, they are also going to be the ones you hear about compared to a 27 year old cutlass.

      Therefore, it stands to reason its much easier to plunder one of those than a 'key' car.
      It isn't.


      And really, if you have a big rock or something, there goes your windows.
      Exactly why the above isn't true.



      With a key, you have to defeat the immobilizer;
      If your car has one.. many are super easy to defeat, hell some have built in temporary bypasses. Some can be reprogrammed in minutes using free software off the internet.


      I've seen proof on police video that if someone hacks one of these keyless cars, they can get in and drive away.
      These cars also do have immo systems, so they are being hacked/bypassed too just like one would in a keyed immo system. These tools are not new, they are just updated versions of what existed when it was physical keys and immo. Also not all systems that are hacked to unlock are actually defeating the immo/start system and therefore do not necessarily start the car, some it is the same step others it is not.



      Nothing in automotive locking/ignition systems is totally secure, the new/current systems are FAR more secure than old physical systems. Making the news because its is sensational doesn't mean this is a larger problem then the days of keys.

    21. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      Yesterday 03:02 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by chris86vw View Post
      Cars are harder to steal today than the days oh physical keys no matter how easy these types of articles and videos make it seem.
      This seemed right to me also but I wanted some data to back it up or debunk it.



      2012 was the most recent year I could find, but it sure appears that car theft is among the lowest in history to me. My first factory keyless entry car was a 1997 Honda Civic so although I'm not sure when it started to become a standard feature, if it was the mid 1990s, then it still sure looks like car theft has dropped a lot since the 90s when it was in the 500's to the modern era where it seems to be in the low 200's.

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      Yesterday 03:40 PM #21
      So

      You have physical keys and virtually no cars with immos but remote entry becoming popular showing a downward trend.

      Then it levels off sort of bumps up when mass adoption if immo systems has been around for a bit.

      But then it starts to fall off again as keyless entry/start is gaining traction, but also maybe fewer cars without immos left worth stealing, so still the immos probably helped reduce some theft.

      Cars have more parts now and should be worth more as parts cars then ever before, but something is causing that drop off in thefts. Is it less crime? better recovery/chance of getting caught? or is it just harder to steal. I'm going to stick with free screwdriver vs laptop and special software as the main difference...


      Also thanks for the chart, I did pull that out of my ass based on I used to know lots of people who had at one point had a car stolen, and now I am not sure I can name anyone. Except my uncle.. but that was Staten island in the 80s and some of them may just have been of no interest to him anymore and that was the easiest way to unload them. 3 cars, a motorcycle, and a neighbor with "connections"


      That little 00-02ish Northeast bump was easily made up just of b5 S4s, civic Sis, and GSR/Type Rs...

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