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    1. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      06-12-2019 11:24 PM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post

      This discussion is relevant to the thread in that people would have much more $$$ for car hobbies if they raised kids like previous generations did, on much less money and material possessions to boot.
      I can't wait to hear how nice it must be to drive your new Packard. You know, just like in the 1950's.
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    3. Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      06-12-2019 11:50 PM #127
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      This discussion is relevant to the thread in that people would have much more $$$ for car hobbies if they raised kids like previous generations did, on much less money and material possessions to boot.
      I’d like to see something empirical with even the slightest support for the notion that in 2019 a single-income family with a stay-at-home parent would have “more $$$ for car hobbies” than a dual-income family, not to mention “much more.”

      Yes, it depends on whether both spouses are in upward career paths or not, but losing income to avoid child care expense doesn’t magically add more $$$ for car hobbies.

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      06-13-2019 12:39 AM #128
      On topic....

      For the money I spent on my kids, I prob would have instead bought this:


    5. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 05:57 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      Socialization is the only semi-valid critique of a homeschooling/traditional child rearing lifestyle in the modern world, where 90% of kids are at daycare, but the homeschool community is growing rapidly, and we have the internet for finding like-minded communities. It's a challenge that can easily be overcome with planning and a little diligence. And I disagree that kids necessarily have to be surrounded by dozens of kids their same age all the time. Kids should have friends their own age, but they can also have friends a little younger/older. kids all the same age can be like the blind leading the blind. Being cognizant of this issue, which we are, it doesn't seem like a big deal if managed properly and the kids are in a lot of extra activities, which home schooled kids typically are. That's a benefit of homeschooling, the lessons can be much more condensed, sometimes only 2 hours per day, and the child has much more time to play and explore the world.

      I understand people get upset when people say you're letting your kids get raised by someone else, but its a valid critique. You don't have control over the person watching your child, or the curriculum in school, or the pacing of that curriculum (which is often far too slow). 8 hour days for kids to sit in desks while schools are seemingly constantly cutting funding to arts/music/physical education is not acceptable in my view, these are the most important subjects to children IMO.

      This discussion is relevant to the thread in that people would have much more $$$ for car hobbies if they raised kids like previous generations did, on much less money and material possessions to boot.
      You just keep doubling-down on the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the whole daycare thing.

      Mentioned the internet in your previous reply, I suggest you use it to see how these places can be extremely beneficial in terms of early development. Hell - my kid was already being taught sign language by 6-7 months old so that he could learn how to communicate before he actually spoke a word. We obviously reinforce that at home, but he was getting much more exposure to it during the day. Also, kids aren't just locked in a room with the same age all day, even at larger centers. At the in-home my kid is at, he has friends that are almost 4 years old now that will be leaving for a year of preschool, and he's now being exposed to the infants that are starting to come in (which he loves by the way). As a kid that's not even 2 years old yet, he's exposed to a vast difference in child personalites and age developmental milestones that a working family just can't provide.

      But hey, you're a 26 year old dude without a kid. You know what's up, you'll get all of that development out of your future kid by taking him to the playground for an hour each day.




      To get this back on topic - here's something non-car related I'll buy once my reasonable daycare expenses go away. You like, Erik?
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    6. Member Surf Green's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 06:53 AM #130
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
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      06-13-2019 07:07 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      I understand people get upset when people say you're letting your kids get raised by someone else, but its a valid critique. You don't have control over the person watching your child, or the curriculum in school, or the pacing of that curriculum (which is often far too slow). 8 hour days for kids to sit in desks while schools are seemingly constantly cutting funding to arts/music/physical education is not acceptable in my view, these are the most important subjects to children IMO.
      Well unless you are the one who spends the most time with the kids you don't have "control" of the person watching them, even if they are family. Most abuse is at the hands of family

      As for the arts/music/PE thing... for starters a good school not having any and every last possible class is a stupid reason to home school. You can just fill in the blanks after school, which you will have to do anyway. You act like people who send their kids to daycare or school don't do anything or have any influence on them when they're not in school

      And as others said unless your S/O is making minimum wage economically having a spouse stay at home is a net loss. You def won't have extra money for car stuff

      Please really think this through for your future kids' sake, your plan is a disaster waiting to happen
      Last edited by CTK; 06-13-2019 at 07:09 AM.

    8. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 07:21 AM #132
      Quote Originally Posted by ZPayne View Post
      This discussion is relevant to the thread in that people would have much more $$$ for car hobbies if they raised kids like previous generations did, on much less money and material possessions to boot.
      Or just not have kids.
      Or be a little smarter and wait till she finishes growing up before saddling her with a massive responsibility.
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    9. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 07:22 AM #133
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      Or just not have kids.
      Or be a little smarter and wait till she finishes growing up before saddling her with a massive responsibility.
      But that would be very un "traditional woman" like. Can't have any of that, sir.
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    10. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 07:59 AM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post



      To get this back on topic - here's something non-car related I'll buy once my reasonable daycare expenses go away. You like, Erik?
      That looks like a great way to keep the wife and kiddo happy while you’re off making the world your oyster and having 11 AM cocktails at the office with your cronies.
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    11. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:01 AM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      That looks like a great way to keep the wife and kiddo happy while you’re off making the world your oyster and having 11 AM cocktails at the office with your cronies.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Dubber-GLI View Post
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      06-13-2019 08:02 AM #136
      Nothing wrong with a traditional household. ZPayne's rationalizations are just really bad

    13. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:12 AM #137
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Nothing wrong with a traditional household. ZPayne's rationalizations are just really bad
      There really isn’t anything wrong with it, but it can’t be forced.

      Take for instance our scenario, daycare is $1,000 per month and that covers two children. Even if my wife were a secretary somewhere making only $10/HR we’d still come out ahead with her working versus staying home with the kids. There wouldn’t be much left over from daycare, but the little that is can be used for bill/groceries/petty cash for her.

      Not to mention the effect staying home all day has on women, they’re humans, they want to get out and be active, they want to be successful, they deserve to be successful, to be honest this is the most important part to me. My wife’s happiness is incredibly important to me, and she’d be miserable staying home, in fact I think you’ll find that most women would be. Not just women, anyone.

      So can you pull off an “old traditional family”? Sure, but make damn well sure it’s her idea and not yours.
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    14. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:16 AM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Nothing wrong with a traditional household. ZPayne's rationalizations are just really bad
      Yeah, but he didn't say traditional household. He said 'traditional woman' - he was specifically talking about pigeon-holing his (future wife?) into not having a career, staying home, etc.

      There's nothing wrong with that, per se, either. However, it takes a large amount of arrogance to make those statements at his and her age, when they don't have kids, as if he thinks he knows that's what's going to happen later in their lives and play off the holier-than-thou to a bunch of us that are married with both partners in careers.

      So yeah, in context, there's a lot ****ing wrong with what he's posting.
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    15. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:34 AM #139
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post
      Yeah, but he didn't say traditional household.
      I don't think what he's arguing for is really even "traditional" in any normal sense of the word. It's a 1950s Leave it to Beaver fever dream that if it ever existed, only did for a certain subset of the white middle class. Even for those that did it, I'm not sure result was all that great in most cases...


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      06-13-2019 08:35 AM #140
      I think being a "traditional woman" can be a woman's choice... problem with ZPayne's situation for me is again at 21 years old people generally don't know enough to make such big life decisions. It's not the age to make irreversible decisions (i.e. kids). So he and his lady may be in for a rude awakening.

      Also in my experience all the dudes I know who are adamant about having a "traditional" relationship end up miserable. Instead of allowing the relationship to evolve in a natural way they try and force everything through the standard of traditionalism that seems to serve no other purpose than validate their sense of manhood and protect their egos. In a time of increasing awareness, visibility and choice for women it's a losing battle. I mean I work out in the sticks with some real God fearing salt of the Earth people... a lot of them are working women, and they're happy.

      But what do I know, with 10 years more time on earth, a happy marriage with a working wife and a toddler lol

    17. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:39 AM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      I don't think what he's arguing for is really even "traditional" in any normal sense of the word.
      Oh I completely agree, again, I was just highlighting the arrogance about the fact that it seems like he's trying to predetermine his lady's own timeline. Rude awakening, he's in for

      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      what were we talking about, again?
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    18. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 08:56 AM #142
      What keeps my wife and I sane is her not staying home. Aside from the mental stress of being home all day with the kids, she is a bigger spender than me, and it would cause a lot of friction if she was spending “my” money instead of “our” money. Not the way you are supposed to think of it, I get that, but on a lizard brain level, I’d want a lot more control over the expenses if I was the only one busting hump to pay them, as opposed to my current attitude of “just make sure the mortgage doesn’t bounce and I can put gas in my car.”
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      06-13-2019 09:17 AM #143
      Yea, money is the biggest factor in marital issues and divorces... having more of it coming in helps a lot

      Plus one income households have psychological disadvantages for both parties. For the earner the pressure to keep the money coming in can be intense. And for the non-earner I've almost always seen some level of resentment generated from their dependency. They often feel trapped. When both partners are earners all that goes away. And of course there's less general financial stress too. For me at least the downsides are unclear.

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      06-13-2019 09:28 AM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post
      You just keep doubling-down on the fact that you don't know what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the whole daycare thing.

      Mentioned the internet in your previous reply, I suggest you use it to see how these places can be extremely beneficial in terms of early development. Hell - my kid was already being taught sign language by 6-7 months old so that he could learn how to communicate before he actually spoke a word. We obviously reinforce that at home, but he was getting much more exposure to it during the day. Also, kids aren't just locked in a room with the same age all day, even at larger centers. At the in-home my kid is at, he has friends that are almost 4 years old now that will be leaving for a year of preschool, and he's now being exposed to the infants that are starting to come in (which he loves by the way). As a kid that's not even 2 years old yet, he's exposed to a vast difference in child personalites and age developmental milestones that a working family just can't provide.

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      06-13-2019 09:46 AM #145
      Quote Originally Posted by Pizza Cat!!!! View Post
      To get this back on topic - here's something non-car related I'll buy once my reasonable daycare expenses go away. You like, Erik?
      I don't have the space for something like this. However, I definitely want to double down on the sim rig. Unfortunately there are no cool pictures of anyone wearing a VR helmet

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      06-13-2019 12:50 PM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      What keeps my wife and I sane is her not staying home.
      Yeah, we both love our kids, but don't love spending every waking moment with them. Daycare/paid schooling (when no/no good public option) is 50-50 for the kids and for the adults with us. Different strokes, some people are built to be SAH dads or moms, and that's great. For people like us, we're happy to drop our kids off in the morning and pick them up at the end of the day. Everyone wins. Sure it's an expense, but it's cheaper than the inevitable drinking habit we'd develop if we didn't have the option.

      Love you kids! I've been internet shopping for my next car fling, and I'm really looking forward to when things calm down at the office so I can take some time to actually get behind the wheel(s).

    23. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 01:02 PM #147
      So when my wife and I got married and had our first child she was 21. She was still in college, and she was working full time. If I would have asked her to stay home with the kids she would have punched me in the face.
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    24. ***** (Cat) Lover Pizza Cat!!!!'s Avatar
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      06-13-2019 01:04 PM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      So when my wife and I got married and had our first child she was 21. She was still in college, and she was working full time. If I would have asked her to stay home with the kids she would have punched me in the face.
      "You're an idiot"

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      06-13-2019 01:24 PM #149
      When we moved down here from NYC neither of us had jobs. My wife was ready to pick up a waitressing job just to get out of the house. Thankfully she quickly landed a gig that doubled her salary... from NYC!!! To celebrate I bought my 350Z Point of that whole story was to say that between the two of us I'm probably more suited to be the SAH parent. I'm a bit of a misanthrope so I'm not too bothered about missing workplace socialization.

    26. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      06-13-2019 01:41 PM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      My wife was ready to pick up a waitressing job just to get out of the house.
      When we had our first child my wife was still in school, so she really took no time off from that after birth. She got four weeks ahead in her class so that when the due date arrived, she only had to show up to take tests. The first test was the same week she gave birth, just four days after. I stayed home with baby, she went to class.

      So the second time she was all about taking off for 12 weeks, it was going to be glorious she said. Two weeks in she called her work to say she was only going to take off 8 weeks.

      Then after 4 weeks she called back to say it was only going to be 6 weeks, and in the 5th week she was going to work with our newborn son to help out with odds and ends because she was going crazy sitting around the house.
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