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    1. Senior Member syntrix's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 10:43 AM #51
      How long does it take to top off the fuel on each of these?

      I don't see a G20 number vs Tesla number (12 hours or so?). That'll lose a cross country trip.
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    3. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 10:50 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by BlakeV View Post
      On the Canadian Kia site, the lease rate for a Stinger GT 36mo /36000miles was ridiculously close to the one I have with VW/Audi for my S5.
      That's nothing. I tried to lease a Chevy Bolt back in March and it ended up being $740 a month. Meanwhile, I can get a M3 manual for $800 a month with zero down. Go figure, I didn't lease it after all.

      I went to Tesla website and configured a Model 3 lease. It ended up being $5K down and $575 a month for 36 months for a $48K car that performs about same as my S3.

      Not bad, but putting $5k down on a lease is really bad idea, so I passed.
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    4. Member cournot's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 10:54 AM #53
      The G20 330i has gotten pretty heavy...3650# for the 4-cylinder, 2WD model? Yikes.
      120 whp/L. >15 bar BMEP, N/A.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Blade3562 View Post
      Butthurt Honda fanbois are butthrt their lawnmowers are overpriced. I was Stage 2 through a dealership with a full warranty so I don't see how it's not a fair comparison. But Honda bois just want to please Johnny Tran

    5. Senior Member
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      05-23-2019 11:01 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      I don't care how good Teslas are. The company might not make it through Xmas. Good luck with those OTA updates then. Waiting for a functional automaker to make a BEV for folks like us.


      1) Tesla won't go under; it will be acquired by someone and/or taken over by a hedge fund until it can be acquired.

      2) You mean, like the Chevrolet Bolt? The Hyundai Kona EV? Or if you want something more upscale, the I-Pace or GLE?

    6. Senior Member
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      05-23-2019 11:05 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      How long does it take to top off the fuel on each of these?

      I don't see a G20 number vs Tesla number (12 hours or so?). That'll lose a cross country trip.
      I'm really curious to see how many people do driving in their typical month that exceeds the range of something like the Model 3 Long Range, or even the Bolt.

      We live in a major city that is either 140 or 190 miles from the nearest major metro areas. We do that drive about 3-4x each year. Beyond that, we rarely exceed the range of the Bolt. The bigger issue is taking it to places within its max range that don't have L2/L3 chargers readily available. That list of places has diminished significantly since we first purchased ours in March 2017.

    7. 05-23-2019 11:08 AM #56
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Look at the spec sheet at the bottom of the article. The Model 3 is performance bargain and it's not even the performance version.

      0-60
      Model 3 = 4.0
      330i = 5.4
      G60 = 6.2

      0-100
      Model 3 = 9.5
      330i = 14.6
      G60 = 16.9

      Weight to Power
      Model 3 = 11.7 lb/hp
      330i = 14.3 lb/hp
      G60 = 14.5 lb/hp
      Which makes the lack of a speed 3 all the more frustrating.

    8. Member adrew's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:20 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      I'm really curious to see how many people do driving in their typical month that exceeds the range of something like the Model 3 Long Range, or even the Bolt.

      We live in a major city that is either 140 or 190 miles from the nearest major metro areas. We do that drive about 3-4x each year. Beyond that, we rarely exceed the range of the Bolt. The bigger issue is taking it to places within its max range that don't have L2/L3 chargers readily available. That list of places has diminished significantly since we first purchased ours in March 2017.
      We live in south DFW and our kid went to school up in Denton (on the extreme north) for a few years. He doesn't drive due to a sight issue and there is no way for him to get to our house via public transit so we would go up there a few times a month for food runs, to run errands, etc. It is about a 120-mile round trip which is too much for any of the EVs I could conceivably afford (500e, Focus, Soul, Golf, OG Leaf).

      He has moved away, and we have moved a closer to work, so now my "commute" is about a mile so an EV would be perfect, though we would still need a gas car for trips.
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    9. Member
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      05-23-2019 11:24 AM #58
      In reading the spec sheet in the article, can someone explain to me how a car does:

      0-100mph in 16.9 seconds
      But 0-100-0 takes 14.4 seconds?

      Same for the BMW, now way does it brake from 100-0 in 1 second.

    10. Member DrivinAW8's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:31 AM #59
      Wouldn't it have been a fairer comparison to test a RWD Model 3?

    11. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:34 AM #60
      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      Wouldn't it have been a fairer comparison to test a RWD Model 3?
      Not really because of the pricing structure. I think they went for the best "fit" in terns of pricing and market position, meaning the one that matches up on price with the rest of the cars.

      Going with a RWD 3 slows the performance down, but also blows the other cars away in price.

      Going with a DMP 3 destroys everything that you can possibly bring to the party.

      I think they went with the right TM3, but it just goes to show you how much of a game changer the TM3 really is.
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    12. Member DrivinAW8's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:39 AM #61
      Point taken. That's why I still wish they offered the long-range RWD variant. It's an even sweeter spot of performance-to-price ratio in my opinion, plus 325 miles of range now!

    13. Member col.mustard's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:41 AM #62
      no interior, no care:

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    14. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:43 AM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by DrivinAW8 View Post
      Point taken. That's why I still wish they offered the long-range RWD variant. It's an even sweeter spot of performance-to-price ratio in my opinion, plus 325 miles of range now!
      I live in a cold weather climate and the AWD is just the clincher for me.

      I made the mistake of driving a Model 3 DM Performance 6 months ago and the experience changed my view on cars in general. It's the future, and I welcome it. I thought I was a manual trans performance guy till death....now I see a plug and one pedal driving in my future.
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    15. Senior Member 2.0T_Convert's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:46 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      How long does it take to top off the fuel on each of these?

      I don't see a G20 number vs Tesla number (12 hours or so?). That'll lose a cross country trip.
      With Tesla you'll be stopping at one of the superchargers. Charge time is under 20 minutes to 'fill up' 50% and 40 minutes for 80%. Topping off takes considerably longer so smart owners will only partially charge up on road trips.

    16. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 11:47 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I live in a cold weather climate and the AWD is just the clincher for me.

      I made the mistake of driving a Model 3 DM Performance 6 months ago and the experience changed my view on cars in general. It's the future, and I welcome it. I thought I was a manual trans performance guy till death....now I see a plug and one pedal driving in my future.
      Why not both? I'm guessing our three car fleet in the future will be gas roadster, gas SUV, electric sedan/SUV.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    17. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:03 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by syntrix View Post
      How long does it take to top off the fuel on each of these?

      I don't see a G20 number vs Tesla number (12 hours or so?). That'll lose a cross country trip.
      I wrote about a road trip I took in mine. 1400 miles. Between stopping to eat, poop, and sleep overnight, the difference I calculated vs gas is prob 3 hours. Totally worth it.

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    18. Member KevinC's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:05 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Never trust motor trend
      car of the year
      Even worse - the Chevy Vega was COTY one year. One of the other mags called it the "car of flat beer" award.

      Tesla is on death watch right now. They will be acquired by someone with some cash and manufacturing expertise within a year - perhaps Apple is the frontrunner (again). NFW they make it another year on their own. The sooner Musk is gone, the faster the company will recover and get on a path to profitability.

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    19. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:27 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
      Even worse - the Chevy Vega was COTY one year. One of the other mags called it the "car of flat beer" award.

      Tesla is on death watch right now. They will be acquired by someone with some cash and manufacturing expertise within a year - perhaps Apple is the frontrunner (again). NFW they make it another year on their own. The sooner Musk is gone, the faster the company will recover and get on a path to profitability.
      I'm going to bookmark this comment as I'm not sure it will age well. Is Uber on death watch too? Amazon circa 2000? Obviously, investors believe that building out infrastructure is more important than short term quarterly profits. Building Gigafactory 3, an incredible global Supercharger network, buying Maxwell Technologies, and investing in Model Y, Truck, and Semi products are the same as Amazon selling books then owning half the internet infrastructure. is their timeline tight? Yes. Will Tesla do what they said they would do? Yes and they have. They obviously missed dates but if you went back 5 years and listened to what they said they would deliver, they absolutely have.
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    20. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:34 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Is Uber on death watch too?
      I'm not on deathwatch. Still posting 14 polls a day! Sorry, I just had to throw that in there.
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    21. Member Lackey's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:00 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      I'm going to bookmark this comment as I'm not sure it will age well. Is Uber on death watch too? Amazon circa 2000? Obviously, investors believe that building out infrastructure is more important than short term quarterly profits. Building Gigafactory 3, an incredible global Supercharger network, buying Maxwell Technologies, and investing in Model Y, Truck, and Semi products are the same as Amazon selling books then owning half the internet infrastructure. is their timeline tight? Yes. Will Tesla do what they said they would do? Yes and they have. They obviously missed dates but if you went back 5 years and listened to what they said they would deliver, they absolutely have.
      It's like you're injecting $TSLA Twitter into your veins. The two worst things about Teslas: their owners and the company's CEO. The Model 3's performance figures reinforce the plain truth that EVs are the future and that's not terrible. Really looking forward to seeing what companies that know how to make cars and run successful businesses do with the technology.
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    22. Senior Member
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      05-23-2019 01:02 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post

      He has moved away, and we have moved a closer to work, so now my "commute" is about a mile so an EV would be perfect, though we would still need a gas car for trips.
      I think this is where Turo or a traditional rental car comes in. Rent what you need when you need it for longer excursions.

      I’ve been trying to figure out how I move to a fun EV for daily duty and then find something entertaining as a weekend/road trip car that won’t be a totally unreliable pig.

    23. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:35 PM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by Lackey View Post
      The two worst things about Teslas: their owners and the company's CEO.
      I totally agree here. When you drive one, the definition of what is expected is altered forever and it makes you wonder why every other car that you may buy doesn't have the same things that the Model 3 offers. Every single hard-core ICE loving car enthusiast who has driven mine walks away amazed by the experience.

      I cannot wait for other OEMs to catch up but boy is it taking forever for more sporty EVs to come out. There have been some pretty big timelines by GM, VW and still nothing today. I applaud Hyundai/Kia for actually debuting their 4th family-friendly EV even though sales are super limited to the states and battery production is holding everyone back. Perhaps gigafactory building is exactly what every OEM needs.....
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    24. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:59 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Every single hard-core ICE loving car enthusiast who has driven mine walks away amazed by the experience.
      Can you expand on this? What is it that people actually like about your Model 3? And if you're ever in the Philly area, let me know. Love to experience your car in person, if you're giving out test drives!

      My questions come from two distinct experience. I drove an i3 a couple of years ago, and while I liked it, it didn't have my wanting to sell off any of my ICE cars. In contrast, the experience I had when I first drove a coyote-powered mustang was, for me, transformative. It was just so much more car than I was ever used to. I went from a sluggish 215hp crossfire to a revvy 412hp pony car. I couldn't get a good feel for the handling at that point, but the acceleration was intoxicating compared with what I owned. After I owned my own 5.0 mustang, the luster wore off. So I wonder if the rave reviews you are seeing is because people are shocked with the nature of the acceleration of the vehicle I was coming from. That MT article says nothing about how the TM3 is like to drive from a dynamics perspective. Aside from the feeling of acceleration, I'm not seeing anything else that's terribly engaging about the vehicle. What did the article not convey about the driving experience (outside of acceleration) that you think should be said?

      From reading that MT article, I would still rather have the BMW. I would just opt for a m340i for $58k (as I would option it) as I trust the overall dynamics more in this vehicle.

    25. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 02:16 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Can you expand on this? What is it that people actually like about your Model 3? And if you're ever in the Philly area, let me know. Love to experience your car in person, if you're giving out test drives!

      My questions come from two distinct experience. I drove an i3 a couple of years ago, and while I liked it, it didn't have my wanting to sell off any of my ICE cars. In contrast, the experience I had when I first drove a coyote-powered mustang was, for me, transformative. It was just so much more car than I was ever used to. I went from a sluggish 215hp crossfire to a revvy 412hp pony car. I couldn't get a good feel for the handling at that point, but the acceleration was intoxicating compared with what I owned. After I owned my own 5.0 mustang, the luster wore off. So I wonder if the rave reviews you are seeing is because people are shocked with the nature of the acceleration of the vehicle I was coming from. That MT article says nothing about how the TM3 is like to drive from a dynamics perspective. Aside from the feeling of acceleration, I'm not seeing anything else that's terribly engaging about the vehicle. What did the article not convey about the driving experience (outside of acceleration) that you think should be said?

      From reading that MT article, I would still rather have the BMW. I would just opt for a m340i for $58k (as I would option it) as I trust the overall dynamics more in this vehicle.
      I totally would give you a test drive if I was near. And I'm sure any local owner would too. The experience is hard to describe because it's more than the sum of its parts but I'll list them off.
      • The instant acceleration. The zero lag between your foot twitching and the car moving is addicting. No downshifts, no turbo pressure build up. The 30-50 on a Mustang GT is 2.5. AWD Model 3 is under 2.
      • The seat of the pants feeling of power. Per EV rated HP, the car feels much more powerful than ICE because all of the power is down low at 0 RPM.
      • The heavy regen allowing you to mostly utilize one pedal driving. This feels great and you wonder why isnt this standard.
      • The steering ratio is 10.3:1. Super quick. I cannot find another vehicle with steering this quick. The car feels more agile and sporty than what is usual for the segment. Some folks do not like this though.
      • The suspension is sportier than what people are used to in that segment.
      • In pictures, the interior looks too spartan. You sit inside and you get it. Very Scandavanian interior. Like a future Volvo. The screen is brilliant.



      You may read this list and say "yea sounds cool but so what" but its only when you take one for a spin, then you get it.
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      05-23-2019 02:17 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
      Even worse - the Chevy Vega was COTY one year. One of the other mags called it the "car of flat beer" award.

      Tesla is on death watch right now. They will be acquired by someone with some cash and manufacturing expertise within a year - perhaps Apple is the frontrunner (again). NFW they make it another year on their own. The sooner Musk is gone, the faster the company will recover and get on a path to profitability.
      You're hilarious. Death watch!!! hahahaha

      They might be unprofitable, but they are far from on any kind of death watch. Will they be bought out at some point, maybe. But all the doom and gloom is put forth by people with no real knowledge of their finances.

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