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    1. Member Dirty Hatch's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:08 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by SoSuMi View Post
      What I think I'm saying is that we ain't seen nothin yet when it comes to EVs. ICE tech is mature while EV tech is still in middle school. I expect Future EVs to blow the current crop of EVs outta the water (or off the tarmac). But of course I'm going to hold out for a manual shift EV
      In terms of Tesla, I don’t think they need more performance, it’s the range, charging times and Otto pilot that we will see major improvements in the future.

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    3. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:13 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Hatch View Post
      In terms of Tesla, I don’t think they need more performance, it’s the range, charging times and Otto pilot that we will see major improvements in the future.
      Along with simple things like consistent paint quality, panel gap tolerances, fit/finish. They’ve got most of the rest dialed in though.
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    4. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 12:13 AM #28
      60k for 4cyl 3-series???

      I know its with options, but I would take almost anything else.

    5. 05-23-2019 12:15 AM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Frosty_spl View Post
      People in this thread prefer their horse and buggy over an airplane.
      Unless you are wealthy enough to own and fly your own aircraft, air travel is just about the most boring form of transportation ever invented. Buses in the sky. *yawn*

    6. Member
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      05-23-2019 12:36 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post


      So a much more powerful, more hi tech, more reliable, less maintenance intensive, and way more efficient cars are the flip phones of our time? I mean I get if you like slower cars, better interiors, worse efficiency, and more cost for all the charms of the familiar ICE engine but flip phones?
      I personally think they are the Nokia bricks of the EV cars. Most of the EV cars right now were not originally designed to be EV cars so they are inefficient. The rest that were actually designed as EV only are not very good automobiles or they fail to excite potential owners to the point where they spend they hard earned money on one. Tesla, for example, does not have a unibody that is built with cost in mind so that they can pass cost savings to the customer and offset the excellent drivetrain they have. A Bolt for example is a decent automobile with a good drivetrain (not as good as Tesla) but the body design I pretty poor and it does not look as good as a model S.

      I think that EVs can be compared to flip phones when 3 things happen: 1) The customer has a selection to chose from at the average car price (today I think it is $30K US).; 2) Many (if not all) dealerships have cars on hand to sell (test drive etc) and 3) It takes about the same time to charge the car as filling up a car with gas (say 5 minutes).

      And just for fun, they can be compared to smartphones when they can talk to each other, they can drive themselves without a licensed driver in the car and the country infrastructure is built up arounds EV instead of ICE. And this would be in addition to the 3 things I mentioned above.

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      05-23-2019 06:46 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      It is funny potential buyers didn't think the same of GM, Ford, or FCA when they were all on the brink but now it's somehow very important
      Well those companies are all like 100+ years old, generally profitable and not run by Tourette's addled megalomaniacs

      Becoming a Ross grade fanboy is not a prerequisite for Tesla ownership bro... you don't have to do this

    8. Member
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      05-23-2019 06:48 AM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by Jettavr666 View Post
      60k for 4cyl 3-series???

      I know its with options, but I would take almost anything else.
      Three quarters of BMWs are leased, so at this point for most BMW customers MSRP doesn't even matter. You can probably lease that 3 for like $500 a month

    9. Member Off Pump's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 07:25 AM #33
      A colleague got the midrange 3 last week. He traded a 997.2 and a Cayenne E-hybrid for it.

      I’ve ridden in a S P85D a few years back and was quite impressed. I sat in the 3 and the seats were immensely comfortable. The dash which I’ve always hated just works, and the wood strip that runs across evokes either Volvo or some other minimalist high end furniture.

      I walked away quite impressed.


      All the huge negative press is obviously a threatened GM/BMW/Daimler
      Formerly Internal Combustion (4/2007)
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    10. 05-23-2019 07:32 AM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by SoSuMi View Post
      What I think I'm saying is that we ain't seen nothin yet when it comes to EVs. ICE tech is mature while EV tech is still in middle school. I expect Future EVs to blow the current crop of EVs outta the water (or off the tarmac). But of course I'm going to hold out for a manual shift EV

      The DC motor was invented long before the ICE.

      The only way to get more instantaneous power out of the battery is to use a larger battery and do you really need or want more than what a M3 Performance already offers?

    11. 05-23-2019 07:36 AM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by Off Pump View Post
      A colleague got the midrange 3 last week. He traded a 997.2 and a Cayenne E-hybrid for it.

      I’ve ridden in a S P85D a few years back and was quite impressed. I sat in the 3 and the seats were immensely comfortable. The dash which I’ve always hated just works, and the wood strip that runs across evokes either Volvo or some other minimalist high end furniture.

      I walked away quite impressed.


      All the huge negative press is obviously a threatened GM/BMW/Daimler
      Completely agree - the rear seats aren't great due to the floor being so high, but it's tolerable. Volvo has already started to follow Tesla's lead and put all controls: HVAC, seat heating/cooling, steering wheel heater, etc in the infotainment.

    12. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 07:50 AM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by Off Pump View Post
      A colleague got the midrange 3 last week. He traded a 997.2 and a Cayenne E-hybrid for it.
      Worsttradeinthehistoryoftradesmaybeever.jpeg
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
      You'll always get a pass due to your history of owning classy and sophisticated automobiles

    13. Member
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      05-23-2019 07:58 AM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by sandwich-chris View Post
      Completely agree - the rear seats aren't great due to the floor being so high, but it's tolerable. Volvo has already started to follow Tesla's lead and put all controls: HVAC, seat heating/cooling, steering wheel heater, etc in the infotainment.
      Both companies are having infotainment issues as a result

      Companies are prioritizing showroom pizazz over long term comfort and usability more and more, and the silly push to all touch controls is one example

    14. Member
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      05-23-2019 08:28 AM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by Jettavr666 View Post
      60k for 4cyl 3-series???

      I know its with options, but I would take almost anything else.
      Been a while since you priced out new cars? It's not that crazy compared to competitors. A 4 cylinder C class can eclipse $60K too. You are aware Porsche is now charging outrageous numbers for a 4 cyl. Boxster/Cayman yes?

      Quote Originally Posted by BGTI1 View Post
      A Bolt for example is a decent automobile with a good drivetrain (not as good as Tesla) but the body design I pretty poor and it does not look as good as a model S.
      Hard to compare cars in two different classes. Actually the Bolt is a very good design from an interior volume standpoint.

    15. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:04 AM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Off Pump View Post
      A colleague got the midrange 3 last week. He traded a 997.2 and a Cayenne E-hybrid for it.
      I didn't even have to leave the thread to find an appropriate gif...

      iain

    16. Geriatric Member Hostile's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:05 AM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by TDIBUGMAN View Post
      Been a while since you priced out new cars? It's not that crazy compared to competitors.
      It is when you realize that $60k 3 series starts at $40k...

      Meanwhile, the G70 starts at $35k and is "loaded" at only $44k.
      Last edited by Hostile; 05-23-2019 at 09:08 AM.
      iain

    17. Member CostcoPizza's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:08 AM #41
      Hyundai power strikes again.

      How is it slower to 60 than a 400lb heavier GLC300?

    18. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:11 AM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by BGTI1 View Post
      I think that EVs can be compared to flip phones when 3 things happen: 1) The customer has a selection to chose from at the average car price (today I think it is $30K US).; 2) Many (if not all) dealerships have cars on hand to sell (test drive etc) and 3) It takes about the same time to charge the car as filling up a car with gas (say 5 minutes).
      Let's just get this out of the way. No one "needs" an EV to charge fully in 5 minutes. Not when you get to charge at home. What we need is an infrastructure that allows charging at apartments and streetside for those homes that don't have a driveway. When you get to start each day with a full tank, you almost never have to recharge while out and about. You need rapid fillup capacity in an ICE car because you can't fill it up at home. With the current crop of 200+ mile EVs, you can go a long time between charges if you want, but keeping it "topped off" is easy so you start each day with that full range. Most people don't know how far a mile actually is, or how far 200 miles really is. I'm shocked at how far the Volt's 40 mile range gets me for commuting, errand running and trips into the city.

      Secondly, ultra rapid charging is bad for batteries and requires some serious cabling to deliver that sort of juice. 2 things we don't want to deal with.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

    19. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:13 AM #43
      Not impressed or convinced by that article. First off, the model 3 they are testing is claimed to have a little over 340hp and yet they're testing it against cars that have a lot less hp. The base price of the conventional cars is also much less money. Just because BMW/Hyundai gave MT fully loaded models doesn't mean they're the same. And then when you read what MT liked about the Model 3 it's all the g-whiz stuff about the car. I didn't read anything about the brakes (other than the neat-o regen braking) or the handling. It seems like MT was impressed with the model 3 because it was simply different than the other two. I'd like to read some more balanced reviews from other outlets.

      I'll also be more interested in the same test when it's done with the V6 G70 and M340.

    20. Member Uber Wagon's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:17 AM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      I didn't even have to leave the thread to find an appropriate gif...

      I'll raise you meme.



      Beer: The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems.

    21. Member
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      05-23-2019 09:37 AM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by Hostile View Post
      It is when you realize that $60k 3 series starts at $40k...

      Meanwhile, the G70 starts at $35k and is "loaded" at only $44k.
      And then you realize that they will lease like $40 a month apart and the G70 volume will be dog****

    22. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:38 AM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by CostcoPizza View Post
      Hyundai power strikes again.

      How is it slower to 60 than a 400lb heavier GLC300?
      The Hyundai 2.0t has always been rather subpar compared to rivals — even when I had it in my 2011 Sonata SE 2.0t (I’m assuming it’s the same engine or at least a variant).

      I’d have the 3.3t though. That one seems to be up to par with the competition.
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    23. Senior Member VarianceVQ's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:45 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by CostcoPizza View Post
      Hyundai power strikes again.

      How is it slower to 60 than a 400lb heavier GLC300?
      Gearing?
      Next car desires subject to change... Perpetually.

    24. Senior Member Mazda 3s's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:46 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by VarianceVQ View Post
      Gearing?
      If they were trying to get better fuel economy, they failed on that part too
      "Of course that's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

      Quote Originally Posted by The Igneous Faction
      Have you ever popped the hood on a powerstroke E350?
      Quote Originally Posted by WhistlerYOW
      No, I got good grades in school

    25. Member
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      05-23-2019 09:59 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Let's just get this out of the way. No one "needs" an EV to charge fully in 5 minutes. Not when you get to charge at home. What we need is an infrastructure that allows charging at apartments and streetside for those homes that don't have a driveway. When you get to start each day with a full tank, you almost never have to recharge while out and about. You need rapid fillup capacity in an ICE car because you can't fill it up at home. With the current crop of 200+ mile EVs, you can go a long time between charges if you want, but keeping it "topped off" is easy so you start each day with that full range. Most people don't know how far a mile actually is, or how far 200 miles really is. I'm shocked at how far the Volt's 40 mile range gets me for commuting, errand running and trips into the city.
      Correct. Most people have NO IDEA how far they drive every day or, for that matter, how far certain destinations are. I do know a few people who fill up every day, but if they left the house every day with a full charge, they are actually saving time.

      300 miles of range will get me from NJ to Chesapeake VA. Think about that. And during the one stop we do make for something to eat, you could easily top up in that 1/2 hour and pick up the extra range to complete the journey to the Outer Banks. (Admittedly, I do not think there are many charging stations once there but you could plug in at whatever rental you are at).

      EV naysayers like to think they all road trip to these far away destinations, and never stop for food/fuel/bathroom breaks. And they take them spur of the moment (let's leave tomorrow for a 3,000 mile trip through the Rockies"). If it's that big of a concern for you, rent a car.

      (Edit: there are both Tesla Superchargers and ChargePoint down there.)
      Last edited by TDIBUGMAN; 05-23-2019 at 10:01 AM.

    26. Member BlakeV's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 10:32 AM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Three quarters of BMWs are leased, so at this point for most BMW customers MSRP doesn't even matter. You can probably lease that 3 for like $500 a month
      No kidding... I checked on the US Genesis site and couldn't even find a lease offer for the G70.

      On the Canadian Kia site, the lease rate for a Stinger GT 36mo /36000miles was ridiculously close to the one I have with VW/Audi for my S5.

      I really like the G70 as a car and would definitely prefer it in 3.3T V6 version to any 4-cyl. new 3-series/A4/C-Class.

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