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    1. Member
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      05-23-2019 01:17 PM #51
      I just read that Cadillac will likely add XT4-V and XT5-V to their V-Series cars.
      I don't know if $40K+ Caddys count as plebian or not tho.

      Are we also considering the hi-po versions of the Jeep Grand Cherokee and Dodge Durango?

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    3. Member simple's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:39 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Want something bigger/taller and more comfortable.
      So do the rest of Americans. That is how we got all these CUV on the roads. Why is that so hard for people to understand?

      BTW the Forester is now a CUV. Wagons are dead.
      If you can't measure it, you can't understand it; if you can't understand it, you can't control it.

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    4. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:42 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Watch out, that's dishonesty and tortured logic you're using right there.
      The way I see it, people have been buying cars that exceed their needs or car shopping on emotion rather than strictly logic forever anyhow, so adding performance SUVs/CUVs to the mix doesn't change much.

      Do I strictly speaking need a CUV? No, of course not. But it would make my life easier when we take road trips with our dog and all our stuff and all my photography gear, easier to get in/out as I get older, and having a higher ride height is frankly kind of a nice change. And if I'm already looking at them, I might as well make it a bit more interesting for myself and get a sportier version.
      Last edited by Shmi; 05-23-2019 at 01:49 PM.

    5. Member Stevo12's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 01:43 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
      BTW the Forester is now a CUV. Wagons are dead.
      The Forester has always been a CUV, whether enthusiasts were in denial about it or not. It was always designed to take on the CRV and RAV4
      Selling 2 6-speed cars with roughly 120k on them - ads will be posted soon

      1) 2008 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 6-speed sedan - 115k
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    6. Member
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      05-23-2019 02:10 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      See, no more tortuous than asking for more utility than a hot ****ing hatch. This isn't hard.

      A hot hatch has more utility than a Miata. So you're compromising on sport to get utility. A CUV has more utility than a GTi, same ****ing difference.
      The gulf in utility between a Miata and hot hatch is in no way comparable to the small gap in utility between a hot hatch and a crossover, so no, not the "same ****ing difference". You have been on the internet way too long not to know that being an aggressive dickhead doesn't make you any less wrong.

    7. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 03:04 PM #56
      i hope the explorer ST is available in 2WD bc doing 400hp donuts will be hilarious.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt
      I have literally zero experience with snow, but it seems to me that if it was raining and there was slush/snow still on the ground, I'd just wash it away with the hose rather than using a shovel. Sure it may freeze overnight, but if it's already raining, it's already going to be wet and freeze anyway, right?

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      05-23-2019 03:19 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Woodski View Post
      i hope the explorer ST is available in 2WD bc doing 400hp donuts will be hilarious.
      FWD attempting to do donuts... isn't really donuts
      Quote Originally Posted by Jezza
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    9. 05-23-2019 03:25 PM #58
      I thought the new exploder was going to be on a rwd mustang like platform?

    10. Member Woodski's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 03:40 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      I thought the new exploder was going to be on a rwd mustang like platform?
      It is.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Matt
      I have literally zero experience with snow, but it seems to me that if it was raining and there was slush/snow still on the ground, I'd just wash it away with the hose rather than using a shovel. Sure it may freeze overnight, but if it's already raining, it's already going to be wet and freeze anyway, right?

    11. Member
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      05-23-2019 03:46 PM #60
      Turbo CX5 seems like the beginning of this class.

    12. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 03:46 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      The gulf in utility between a Miata and hot hatch is in no way comparable to the small gap in utility between a hot hatch and a crossover, so no, not the "same ****ing difference". You have been on the internet way too long not to know that being an aggressive dickhead doesn't make you any less wrong.
      Small gap?
      Ha
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
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    13. Member
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      05-23-2019 03:47 PM #62
      The new Legacy was just released with available XT trim as well as the new Outback. I truly believe the Forester will get the same treatment soon.
      Last edited by bnkrpt311; 05-23-2019 at 03:51 PM.

    14. Member
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      05-23-2019 05:58 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      The way I see it, people have been buying cars that exceed their needs or car shopping on emotion rather than strictly logic forever anyhow, so adding performance SUVs/CUVs to the mix doesn't change much.

      Do I strictly speaking need a CUV? No, of course not. But it would make my life easier when we take road trips with our dog and all our stuff and all my photography gear, easier to get in/out as I get older, and having a higher ride height is frankly kind of a nice change. And if I'm already looking at them, I might as well make it a bit more interesting for myself and get a sportier version.
      No dishonesty or tortured logic here. Obviously you have certain needs that are better suited for a crossover than a low hatchback.

      I'm speaking more to the people who are prematurely declaring the very alive hot hatch dead to make performance crossovers seem like a choice they were forced to make.

      Again though, for $30-50K, someone who wants a car that is fun to drive is spoiled for choice. Hell you could lower that to $20K.

    15. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 06:13 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      Turbo CX5 seems like the beginning of this class.
      CX-5 is not the first one to reach near 250hp in this class. And I don't think most of us will categorize these previous CUVs as performance variant. 250hp will make CX-5 one of the faster CUV on the market but I don't think it is really that performance oriented. It just basically "un-slowed" the CX-5.

      Escape 2.0T - 245hp
      RAV4 3.5 V6 (2 generations ago!) - 268hp
      Jeep Cherokee 3.2 V6 - 271hp
      Mitsubishi Airtrek/Outlander 2.0T (the first gen) - 245hp
      Nissan X-Trail 2.0T - 280hp (this was JDM only and 2 generations ago)
      Chevy Equinox 3.6 V6 (previous gen) - 300hp
      Chevy Equinox 2.0T (current gen) - 252hp
      GMC Terrain - see Equinox
      Saturn Vue (with 3.5 Honda V6) - 250hp
      Saturn Vue (with 3.6 GM V6) - 257hp
      Last edited by bzcat; 05-23-2019 at 06:44 PM.

    16. 05-24-2019 03:24 PM #65
      Honda should do a cr-v si

    17. Member Shmi's Avatar
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      05-24-2019 03:42 PM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      Honda should do a cr-v si
      Yeah but it has a CVT. Not very si-friendly. If manual was an option they could offer it manual-only.

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      05-24-2019 04:03 PM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by Shmi View Post
      Want something bigger/taller and more comfortable. Did a Fiesta ST for a few years, it was great but the ride quality got old as a daily, as did the size.
      Ding ding ding.

      Knock the compromise of CUVs all you want, but sedans (and...*braces*...even hatchbacks...) are even more useless in comparison. I will be the first to admit that my GTI is seriously lacking in "put things in it" ability next to my CX-5, and it rides like hot trash, but my CX-5 doesn't come in a flavor that chirps third or stays upright around on-ramps.
      THCK

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    19. Member Ryephile's Avatar
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      05-24-2019 04:57 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      The gulf in utility between a Miata and hot hatch is in no way comparable to the small gap in utility between a hot hatch and a crossover, so no, not the "same ****ing difference". You have been on the internet way too long not to know that being an aggressive dickhead doesn't make you any less wrong.
      CTK calling people names because he doesn't understand the topic, say it isn't so!

      Hot hatches don't sell in the USA. Crossovers sell. Boomers and X'ers buy crossovers because they're old and fat and lazy and won't tolerate a sedan h-point anymore.

      Your reality where you think h-point and load lift height aren't relevant is completely out of line with the purchasing masses. As such, performance crossovers are not only here, they'll continue to proliferate as the average mass-consumer Boomer and X'er tries to cling to whatever pathetic existence they used to have by rationalizing the performance version of the crossover they have to exert zero effort to ingress or egress and "sit a little bit higher".
      "This is like O. Henry and Alanis Morissette had a baby and named it "this exact situation"."
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      05-24-2019 06:55 PM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by Ryephile View Post
      CTK calling people names because he doesn't understand the topic, say it isn't so!

      Hot hatches don't sell in the USA. Crossovers sell. Boomers and X'ers buy crossovers because they're old and fat and lazy and won't tolerate a sedan h-point anymore.

      Your reality where you think h-point and load lift height aren't relevant is completely out of line with the purchasing masses. As such, performance crossovers are not only here, they'll continue to proliferate as the average mass-consumer Boomer and X'er tries to cling to whatever pathetic existence they used to have by rationalizing the performance version of the crossover they have to exert zero effort to ingress or egress and "sit a little bit higher".
      No, I called ChrisV an aggressive dickhead because that's what he's being.

      And hot hatches don't sell? You better get on the phone with Honda, Hyundai and Volkswagen since you apparently know more than they do. In fact, the only versions of the Mk8 Golf VW is supposedly bringing to the US are the GTI and R. How do you reconcile that with hot hatches not selling here?

      And we are talking about performance vehicles, which the masses have no interest in... not regular mainstream vehicles

      0/3 for being in your emotions. I hope you enjoyed yourself, because I sure did

    21. Member lowlight's Avatar
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      05-25-2019 09:33 AM #70
      I hope this trim level develops more too, as others have said, I think it will.

      I like how Ford offers the Edge Sport/ST & Explorer Sport.

      JGC & Durango SRT are great options.

      I like how the luxury manufacturers are making Stelvio Quadrifoglio, X3 M, GLC 63, etc. If nothing else I'll get one of those.
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    22. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      05-25-2019 03:55 PM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      No, I called ChrisV an aggressive dickhead because that's what he's being.
      I'm being a dickhead to you because you're being obtuse. Aggressive, I'm not, however. You're the one with the problem. Sorry.
      "Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection"

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