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    1. Member kraut_pauer79's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 05:54 PM #1
      As of now, only the luxury brands are making crossovers with serious performance.

      With all the panties in a bunch over the topic of "Sporty SUV's" in the Tahoe RST thread, it got me thinking about what the future looks like for affordable fun cars, especially the with the massive switch to crossovers in the present and future.

      For example - will VW ever do something like a short-wheelbase Tiguan, and give it the full GTI treatment with running gear and exterior goodies? Will Ford ever doll up the Escape to have a really good, fun ST or RS trim?

      With so many sedans and hatchbacks going extinct as we speak, what will the future of affordable fun cars look like? Will EV's play into it? Not everyone wants a Mustang or Camaro.
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    3. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 06:06 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      As of now, only the luxury brands are making crossovers with serious performance.

      With all the panties in a bunch over the topic of "Sporty SUV's" in the Tahoe RST thread, it got me thinking about what the future looks like for affordable fun cars, especially the with the massive switch to crossovers in the present and future.

      For example - will VW ever do something like a short-wheelbase Tiguan, and give it the full GTI treatment with running gear and exterior goodies? Will Ford ever doll up the Escape to have a really good, fun ST or RS trim?

      With so many sedans and hatchbacks going extinct as we speak, what will the future of affordable fun cars look like? Will EV's play into it? Not everyone wants a Mustang or Camaro.
      I believe we are in a transition period, and the cars you speak of are coming. We already know that VW is considering an R variant of their utilities, and it's an open secret that Ford is developing an Escape ST.
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      05-21-2019 06:13 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      I believe we are in a transition period, and the cars you speak of are coming. We already know that VW is considering an R variant of their utilities, and it's an open secret that Ford is developing an Escape ST.
      Someone on my street has one of the new Edge ST's. Not something I would ever buy but it's a nice looking car. With almost 400lb/tq I have to imagine it's not slow.
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    5. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 06:51 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      With all the panties in a bunch over the topic of "Sporty SUV's" in the Tahoe RST thread, it got me thinking about what the future looks like for affordable fun cars, especially the with the massive switch to crossovers in the present and future.
      Do people with crossovers want a performance version? There aren't a lot of us with performance versions of SUVs, so I wouldn't think it would be much different for CUVs. Also, how are we defining CUVs? Just small SUVs, like an Escape or Rogue? Or are bigger vehicles like an Explorer or Pathfinder included?

    6. Member kraut_pauer79's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 06:57 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      Do people with crossovers want a performance version? There aren't a lot of us with performance versions of SUVs, so I wouldn't think it would be much different for CUVs. Also, how are we defining CUVs? Just small SUVs, like an Escape or Rogue? Or are bigger vehicles like an Explorer or Pathfinder included?
      Mainly smaller to medium-sized crossovers. Yes I realize almost all crossovers are purchased for practicality and utility, but if a Tiguan GTI or Crosstrek WRX were offered, don't you think there'd be interest? I'm thinking especially in the context of their already-existing sedan and hatchback versions, and what the future holds for them.
      Quote Originally Posted by Metallitubby View Post
      Subaru fans chalk their negative experiences up to being part of a smaller brand and character. Something about beards, lesbians, and douche-flutes.

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      05-21-2019 07:07 PM #6
      Since the Focus is a goner for the USA, I’m really hoping for an Escape ST with the 2.3EB and AWD. I’m guessing a manual transmission would be dreaming too much...

    8. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 08:12 PM #7
      For as long as people are actually able to drive the vehicles they buy/lease/rent, there will be a group of us who will always want the higher performing version.

      I don't think sedans and sports cars are going away for good anytime soon, but given the practicality of CUVs, and the compromises most of us have to make at times (e.g. only car, transporting your kids, etc.), it will likely come down to a situation where having the higher performance version of the CUV would lessen the blow of having to give up a sports car. And given how good CUVs are becoming, it's realistic to think that many will be converted for some time to come.

      An Si version of the CR-V. A Mazdasport version of the CX-5. An R or GT? version of the Tiguan. ST version of the Escape. Z-whatever version of the Equinox, and so on. I think all would find success, but obviously some are better candidates than others.

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      05-21-2019 09:38 PM #8
      Yeah, they'll make "performance" CUVs.
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      05-21-2019 09:41 PM #9
      It’s a good question. Did Subaru kill the Forester XT so as not to poach Outback XT sales?
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    11. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-21-2019 09:42 PM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by kraut_pauer79 View Post
      if a Tiguan GTI or Crosstrek WRX were offered, don't you think there'd be interest? I'm thinking especially in the context of their already-existing sedan and hatchback versions, and what the future holds
      I'm not really sure. I'm sure there are people in the world who would want one, but who are those people? I don't have an answer. And compact SUVs are frankly getting really expensive IMO. I've seen Ecosports and HRVs on dealer lots for $28k! And then you add a sport version which are among the most expensive versions at least in the car world and I wonder if a performance CUV would be priced out of contention for most.

      For me, selecting a performance CUV isn't so much a want as it is a compromise. The wife wants CUV X and I would rather have a GTI/Si/N etc. The performance CUV is the compromise, but only if the cost works. If my budget is $30k for a compact CUV, I'm not paying $37k for a body kit, stiff suspension, and a handful of extra power.

      It would be interesting to see a non-premium brand take a shot at a performance CUV. Nissan tried it with the nismo Juke, but i don't think that's the best example. As you stated, a crosstrek wrx would be much more interesting.

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      05-21-2019 10:19 PM #11
      Why on Google Earth would I buy a performance crossover if performance cars are still available?

      Crossovers are for loading up your family and driving to a vacation spot.

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      05-22-2019 01:24 AM #12
      I think the first generation Volkswagen Tiguan (PQ35) was fairly close to answering the original question. It was sometimes referred to as a “GTI on steroids”. The Tiguan was offered with the 2.0 turbo engine (200 hp), and was small and nimble enough to be classified as “sporty”. It also had some limited off-road capability, with AWD (optional) and decent ground clearance. The Tiguan was not perfect, and it definitely was not cheap, but it was a good attempt at a small performance SUV.
      Last edited by Alpinweiss2; 05-22-2019 at 01:27 AM.
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    14. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 06:20 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Crossovers are for loading up your family and driving to a vacation spot.
      So are most cars.
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      05-22-2019 06:48 AM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnoughCars View Post
      So are most cars.
      You'll have more fun getting there in a performance car

    16. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 07:08 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      You'll have more fun getting there in a performance car
      Depends on where "there" is...
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
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      05-22-2019 07:54 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      You'll have more fun getting there in a performance car
      If the journey is nothing but wide open pot-hole filled interstates then there are benefits in a vehicle with meatier rubber. Fuel savings are becoming increasingly less important as FE improved across the board. Now put that SUV on rubber band tires and I'll complain just as loudly as I would in a sports car wearing the same thin shoes.
      Last edited by 2.0T_Convert; 05-22-2019 at 07:58 AM.

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      05-22-2019 07:58 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      If the journey is nothing but wide open pot-hole filled interstates then I don't see the benefit in a performance car. Fuel savings are becoming increasingly less important as FE improved across the board.
      I guess it is a matter of perspective. I would drive a crossover on 70 profile tires if I were still in NYC. But next time we go to the mountains down here I want something more fun than wifey's baby hauler

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      05-22-2019 08:03 AM #18
      the only non premium "sporty" offering i can think of is the Explorer Sport and the Edge ST and even then the pricing is up there and they are mid sized CUV's - something like the Escape/CRV/RAV4/Tiguan class would benefit of having a sport model - heck every one of those manufacturers has a bigger or turbo engine choice that would work well in the sports model.

      I'd love to see a CRV with the 2.0T that's in the Accord sport or an Escape with the 2.3T Ecoboost.
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      05-22-2019 08:06 AM #19
      I rode behind a Forester Sport this morning - blacked out grille, black wheels, red stripes. That makes it a performance crossover, right?

      Honestly this is what I think the next step will be - sporty appearance packages with a light sprinkling of performance improvements. Think what Honda does on the Civic and Accord with the Sport trim level or what Toyota does with SE.

      Full blown high performance will be limited to things like the JGC and Durango SRT.

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      05-22-2019 08:19 AM #20
      Cars are dead, SUV is the new "car." Naturally, every model will have a sporty performance trim.

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      05-22-2019 08:46 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Why on Google Earth would I buy a performance crossover if performance cars are still available?

      Crossovers are for loading up your family and driving to a vacation spot.
      When you wanna haul ass but you have to haul kids and you can only have one car. That's why. Grown ups are already ditching sedans and sports cars for crossovers when they have a family. Why wouldn't they buy the performance version of that so they can still have a sporty drive when they want to, and do all the hauling that they need to when that's the case?

      As for it costing more than a basic CUV, well, it still costs LESS than buying/registering/insuring two cars...
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      05-22-2019 09:11 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      When you wanna haul ass but you have to haul kids and you can only have one car. That's why.
      You can do this in a sedan

      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      Grown ups are already ditching sedans and sports cars for crossovers when they have a family. Why wouldn't they buy the performance version of that so they can still have a sporty drive when they want to, and do all the hauling that they need to when that's the case?

      As for it costing more than a basic CUV, well, it still costs LESS than buying/registering/insuring two cars...
      Odds are a family will have more than 1 driver and by extension vehicle, so the driver less concerned with fun can drive the crossover and the driver more concerned with it can drive the sedan. When there's a need to haul the crossover gets used. Otherwise the fun prioritizing driver uses the sedan.

      Hell, I am seriously contemplating adding an old sports car to the fleet and possibly using it as a semi-daily driver. Day care is 5 minutes from my house so I can just pop home and switch cars to get the baby. I think people who are painting performance crossovers as an unavoidable inevitability secretly want them but don't want to admit it. Again why would anyone even contemplate such a future if they had no interest in such vehicles?

      Not to mention arguably we are awash in family friendly performance cars. The sport sedan segment is completely oversaturated and heavily subsidized, and do-it-all stalwarts like the GTI and Civic Si are going strong with no indicators of stopping. Why look past all that at an Edge ST? The only reason I can think of is preferring the Edge ST to all the available performance car options.

    24. 05-22-2019 09:38 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Alpinweiss2 View Post
      I think the first generation Volkswagen Tiguan (PQ35) was fairly close to answering the original question. It was sometimes referred to as a “GTI on steroids”. The Tiguan was offered with the 2.0 turbo engine (200 hp), and was small and nimble enough to be classified as “sporty”. It also had some limited off-road capability, with AWD (optional) and decent ground clearance. The Tiguan was not perfect, and it definitely was not cheap, but it was a good attempt at a small performance SUV.
      Too bad the awd version had an automatic and not DSG.

      It always always felt like the first two generations of the CRV could have had a performance version too, more so the first gen, but I sort have always like how the 2nd gen looked. It also had an awd manual model available a K series motor, so chances are swapping a K24 from a TSX would be possible.

      Plenty of 1st gen B20 VTEC turbo CRVs out there too and AWD hondas fast hondas are new thing
      Last edited by Aw614; 05-22-2019 at 09:40 AM.

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      05-22-2019 09:42 AM #24
      How soon we forget...1992 GMC Typhoon SUV (not CUV)



      https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ive-flashback/



      Also, If you live in Japan, there's Subaru Forester STi:







      So there are some Plebian performance utes from the past, and the current ones are out of American Motorists' reach.
      Last edited by Uber Wagon; 05-22-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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      05-22-2019 09:47 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      Too bad the awd version had an automatic and not DSG.

      It always always felt like the first two generations of the CRV could have had a performance version too, more so the first gen, but I sort have always like how the 2nd gen looked. It also had an awd manual model available a K series motor, so chances are swapping a K24 from a TSX would be possible.

      Plenty of 1st gen B20 VTEC turbo CRVs out there too and AWD hondas fast hondas are new thing
      Hi po CR-V exists:


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