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    1. Member
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      05-15-2019 02:48 PM #1
      This is an interesting way for Caddy to introduce the CT4 to the world.
      Interesting to see GM launch it’s 3 hi-po cars this summer. (Vette, CT5-V, and CT4-V).

      https://leftlanenews.com/cadillac/ca...ut-next-month/
      General Motors is planning to debut both the CT5-V and the CT4-V at a media event late next month.

      An invitation sent to Motor1 apparently confirms that the CT4 will make its first public appearance as the performance-focused V package.

      The CT5-V (pictured) has already been spotted by spy photographers, hidden underneath the body if its predecessor, the CTS-V, while undergoing testing late last year.

      Spy shots of the CT4 appeared around the same time, hinting at similar proportions to the outgoing ATS. It is unclear if the V-badged model will be powered by a turbocharged four-cylinder engine or a larger mill, potentially following the ATS-V with a turbo V6.

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    3. 05-15-2019 02:54 PM #2
      The names suck, but I certainly enjoyed my time behind the wheel of the CT6 and the CTS-V.

      I wish them luck. I'd have abandoned this silly name-structure years ago.
      --
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    4. Member Minority5's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:26 PM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by spoonie View Post
      The names suck, but I certainly enjoyed my time behind the wheel of the CT6 and the CTS-V.

      The CT6 is really a wonderful driving instrument for a comfortable 4 door. I'd prefer more organized customization in some elements of the UX (a GM issue overall)-
      but Super cruise is absolutely wonderful in practice.
      Last edited by Minority5; 05-16-2019 at 11:57 AM.

    5. Member
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      05-15-2019 04:32 PM #4
      Will it be bigger or smaller than the ATS?

    6. Member Yuppie Scum's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 04:55 PM #5
      Did they not learn their lesson that beyond auto journalists nobody really wants a Chevy Cruze sized caddy?

    7. Member lowlight's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 08:36 PM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Minority5 View Post
      The CT-6 is really a wonderful driving instrument for a comfortable 4 door. I'd prefer more organized customization in some elements of the UX (a GM issue overall)-
      but Super cruise is absolutely wonderful in practice.
      Oh man, very excited for these cars!

      New CT5-V has a lot to live up to as the CTS-V replacement. I'd argue it's clearly the best mid-size RWD luxury sports sedan period. Love how Cadillac is still sticking with RWD driving experience & most fun driving dynamics in the face of ICBMs M5 & E63.

      New CT4-V is replacing a hidden gem in the ATS-V. I've read some who label it as a modern day Grand National. Not a bad comparison as it is truly underappreciated and will likely only be so long after its gone. It's still in my top 2 choices for next fun summer car.

      Last, love the CT6! Also an underappreciated car. I could easily see myself looking at one of these as my "luxo barge" one day. Except of course, it would run rings around any luxo barge. Love the engineering behind the Omega chassis.

      Looking to see what Cadillac has in store for the "Blackwing" V8, other states of tune, etc. - guessing this will be the forthcoming mill in the CT5-V. Also guessing the 3.0TT in the CT6 is what takes up the mantle of the LF4 in the ATS-V/CT4-V?

      C'mon Minority, tell us what's coming!
      Current: '17 Tundra, '16 3 GT
      Past/Sold: '13 Evo, '08 Si, '12 Mustang GT, '03 Evo VIII, '01 Golf 1.8T

    8. Member DrewSXR's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 09:31 PM #7
      Looking forward to the CT4!

      Hopefully it looks more like a traditional sedan.

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      05-15-2019 10:06 PM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Did they not learn their lesson that beyond auto journalists nobody really wants a Chevy Cruze sized caddy?
      I'm having a combined sense of dread and deja vu

      Introducing the 2020 @T$ and ©T5. "Dare to fail twice"

    10. Member
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      05-16-2019 08:01 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Did they not learn their lesson that beyond auto journalists nobody really wants a Chevy Cruze sized caddy?
      Cadillac is returning to the tweener sizing that worked well for the first and second gen CTS.
      The CT4 will be sized between the A3 and A4, but will be priced like the A3.
      That should be a good value proposition.
      Also, the ATS Sedan sold reasonably well, at first, but it was allowed to whither.
      It didn’t and never will touch 3-Series numbers, but it was probably competitive with Lexus IS and whatever Infiniti has in that segment.

    11. 05-17-2019 01:56 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      Will it be bigger or smaller than the ATS?
      Maybe marginally smaller in length, but should have about the same interior space - which is fine as the CT4 competes against the likes of the A Class, A3, etc.

      The CT5 is the 3 Series, C Class competitor.
      Why you wouldn’t (buy an Optima SX):

      Because you have your eyes on the Frigidaire Limited Edition Camry that you saw last weekend at the neighborhood Autoplex
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    12. Member
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      05-17-2019 07:07 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      Also, the ATS Sedan sold reasonably well, at first, but it was allowed to whither.
      It didn’t and never will touch 3-Series numbers, but it was probably competitive with Lexus IS and whatever Infiniti has in that segment.
      ATS shrank in sales every year it was on the market. I don't think that was the case for the IS and Infiniti

    13. Member Karl_1340's Avatar
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      05-17-2019 07:23 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Did they not learn their lesson that beyond auto journalists nobody really wants a Chevy Cruze sized caddy?
      I do.

      May 30th is the release date.
      I would bet the CT4-V uses the 3.0TT that is currently in the CT6, and the CT5-V will have the Blackwing TT V8.

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      05-17-2019 12:18 PM #13
      GM, y u no LT-1 the CT4.... anyone who wants a 6 banger sport sedan is buying an M3

    15. Member Minority5's Avatar
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      05-17-2019 12:42 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      ATS shrank in sales every year it was on the market. I don't think that was the case for the IS and Infiniti
      First generation Lexus IS sales:

      2005 15.789
      2004 9.972
      2003 13.559
      2002 20.306
      2001 22.846
      2000 15.540


      If memory serves, I think Lexus moved 10K of the XE20 when it was introduced to the USDM between September to December. (i.e., the first gen was struggling to gain traction) Like most new challengers in this segment, it takes time, marketing support, and patience.

    16. Senior Member JustinCSVT's Avatar
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      05-17-2019 01:18 PM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      GM, y u no LT-1 the CT4.... anyone who wants a 6 banger sport sedan is buying an M3
      I would imagine emissions has a large part to do with it as well as corporate identity concerns as well.

      I don't think the engine type matters, it just needs to be good. The Alfa QF has done just fine with a V6.

    17. 05-17-2019 02:26 PM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      GM, y u no LT-1 the CT4.... anyone who wants a 6 banger sport sedan is buying an M3
      This is an interesting idea - and one that could come true. GM hasn't announced the engine lineup yet, we're just hearing speculation.

    18. Member
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      05-17-2019 02:28 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by Minority5 View Post
      First generation Lexus IS sales:

      2005 15.789
      2004 9.972
      2003 13.559
      2002 20.306
      2001 22.846
      2000 15.540


      If memory serves, I think Lexus moved 10K of the XE20 when it was introduced to the USDM between September to December. (i.e., the first gen was struggling to gain traction) Like most new challengers in this segment, it takes time, marketing support, and patience.
      Lexus had no 3 series fighter before the IS... Cadillac has precedent with the ATS. Also the IS came out during prime time for sport sedans; CT4/5 aren't. I think it would have been smarter for Cadillac to whittle down to 1 midsize sedan and go 100% on its crossovers/SUVs. Now it's spread too thin across the board and committed to 2 new models in shrinking segments

      @JustinCSVT the Alfa can draw on the Ferrari connection. V8 ATS-V makes so much sense. "The heart of a Corvette. The luxury of a Cadillac"

    19. Member Minority5's Avatar
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      05-17-2019 03:14 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Lexus had no 3 series fighter before the IS... Cadillac has precedent with the ATS. Also the IS came out during prime time for sport sedans; CT4/5 aren't. I think it would have been smarter for Cadillac to whittle down to 1 midsize sedan and go 100% on its crossovers/SUVs. Now it's spread too thin across the board and committed to 2 new models in shrinking segments

      @JustinCSVT the Alfa can draw on the Ferrari connection. V8 ATS-V makes so much sense. "The heart of a Corvette. The luxury of a Cadillac"
      The ATS was the first 3 series sized competitor into that market. Predictably, early ATS sales were conquest heavy as the first and second generation CTS buyers weren't enamored with the 'smaller car, same money' business model.

      It's ironic that your referring to Lexus in this example, as Toyota tried a similar strategy with the GS 300-it again was pitched against both the 3 and 5 series, and sitting in between price wise. After failing to pitch earlier versions (Nissan rebadged a Maxima as an alternative to the 3/C Class, and had the G20 remember that was a slow seller as well) of the ES against the establishment.

      Again, 'new' early entries into this segment have had mostly mixed results, regardless of badge.

      Edit:

      Added the Audi 80/90 out of curiosity


      Audi
      80 / 90
      1996 0
      1995 3.796
      1994 4.174
      1993 5.673
      1992 3.881
      1991 3.092
      1990 7.765
      1989 9.002
      1988 11.773
      1987 1.316


      Compared to the BMW 3 Series (E36)

      1996 50.248
      1995 50.146
      1994 46.287
      1993 45.594
      1992 38.040
      1991 29.002
      1990 22.825
      Last edited by Minority5; 05-17-2019 at 03:31 PM.

    20. Junior Member ttiguy's Avatar
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      05-18-2019 05:55 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by sandwich-chris View Post
      This is an interesting idea - and one that could come true. GM hasn't announced the engine lineup yet, we're just hearing speculation.
      The engines were NOT the problems with the ATS-V and the CTS-V, the MSRP prices were. I'll bet no one who bought one paid list price and other potential buyers were scared away. Anyways, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

      CT4-V gets the LF4 - 3.6L TT V6
      CT5-V gets the LT4 - 6.2L SC V8

      You heard it here first

    21. 05-18-2019 09:23 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by ttiguy View Post
      The engines were NOT the problems with the ATS-V and the CTS-V, the MSRP prices were. I'll bet no one who bought one paid list price and other potential buyers were scared away. Anyways, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

      CT4-V gets the LF4 - 3.6L TT V6
      CT5-V gets the LT4 - 6.2L SC V8

      You heard it here first
      Why develop the blackwing and then not use it?

    22. Member
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      05-19-2019 12:03 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by sandwich-chris View Post
      Why develop the blackwing and then not use it?
      CT6-V uses it and so will the next Escalade.

    23. Junior Member ttiguy's Avatar
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      05-30-2019 06:31 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by sandwich-chris View Post
      Why develop the blackwing and then not use it?

      https://www.motor1.com/news/352293/2...-ct4-v-debuts/


      2.7L 320hp 4 cylinder in the CT4-V
      3.0L 355hp 6 cylinder in the CT5-V

      I think we're being duped, gotta be a joke

    24. Member
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      05-30-2019 07:01 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by ttiguy View Post
      https://www.motor1.com/news/352293/2...-ct4-v-debuts/


      2.7L 320hp 4 cylinder in the CT4-V
      3.0L 355hp 6 cylinder in the CT5-V

      I think we're being duped, gotta be a joke
      Looks like the CT4 is the ATS with a new nose and butt.

    25. Global Moderator MylesPH1's Avatar
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      05-30-2019 07:02 PM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by ttiguy View Post
      The engines were NOT the problems with the ATS-V and the CTS-V, the MSRP prices were. I'll bet no one who bought one paid list price and other potential buyers were scared away. Anyways, the more things change, the more they stay the same.

      CT4-V gets the LF4 - 3.6L TT V6
      CT5-V gets the LT4 - 6.2L SC V8

      You heard it here first
      Yeah... I hope you are correct, or that I’m missing something here.. I just watched the live feed of the CT4-V and CT5-V introduction...



      This graphic shows the motor for the CT5-V a TT SIX cylinder, producing 350hp and 400 ft/pounds of torque.

      CT4-V gets a 2.7 liter.. well, they didn’t even say the cylinder count, 320HP, 369 ft/pounds of torque.. six cylinder? Four cylinder? They didn’t say.

      I kept hoping that I hadn’t heard this correctly, and that theses were V-Sport versions, but I fear that’s not the case.

      My cousin owns a ‘16 CTS-V, and has been waiting to see this reveal. He’s not only disappointed, he’s downright pissed off.

      But... I think there’s still hope right? They have an entire badass new Caddy-only V8 motor, so maybe I’m not catching all the detail from the presser. Fingers crossed...


      EDIT - I just listened again, the spokesman clearly says, “The CT5-V has a twin turbo V6”...

      Damn. I guess I’m not that shocked since sedans are no longer a priority at GM, but... a CTS-V would eat this thing alive.
      Last edited by MylesPH1; 05-30-2019 at 07:08 PM.
      One Swedish sedan
      One ‘murrican coupe

    26. Member
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      05-30-2019 07:12 PM #25
      Doesn’t the XTS’ TTV6 make like 400 HP?

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