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    1. 05-14-2019 09:37 PM #1
      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...old-last-year/


      That's a lot of self shifting 86s...

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    3. I’m not a loser. I’m a winnah!! patrikman's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:23 PM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by GarageBoy View Post
      https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...old-last-year/


      That's a lot of self shifting 86s...
      I wonder how the BRZ compares. The sales numbers are certainly lower but I’d guess they’d be mostly stick.
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      05-15-2019 07:16 AM #3
      One rough way I analyze these kinds of things is by checking the splits on sites like Autotrader and Cargurus. There could be some skewing... i.e. maybe manual owners crash more or are less likely to sell.... but it paints some kind of picture.

      In any case, traffic is getting worse, so it's no wonder street driving is losing its luster. The whole comfy commuter/fun weekend car thing makes more and more sense. Which makes me wonder why in the **** someone would get an auto 86... which seems like the worst of both worlds

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      05-15-2019 08:25 AM #4
      Surprised to see 15% take rate for MT on the Corolla, was expecting single digits. Also still scrolling back for a second look at the Corolla as it really is the best looking (new) small hatchback (IMO).


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      05-15-2019 08:45 AM #5
      This is my shocked face :l

      It's a bummer for guys like me, but I know the end is nigh. Electrics will doom them even if a few hang on for the next decade. On the plus side, it's unlikely you'd get carjacked. On the negative side, if you did, they'd probably have to take you hostage since they couldn't drive it.
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      05-15-2019 08:58 AM #6
      Do people still carjack?

      I am not bummed about new cars killing stickshift. Old cars with sticks are abundant and robust. Grab something like a Miata or Corvette as a fun second car and keep it forever. Again commuting is an intensifying hell so you might as well get something suited to it.

    8. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 09:04 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Do people still carjack?

      I am not bummed about new cars killing stickshift. Old cars with sticks are abundant and robust. Grab something like a Miata or Corvette as a fun second car and keep it forever. Again commuting is an intensifying hell so you might as well get something suited to it.
      I live in a small town and commute to Louisville, which takes something like 15-20 minutes when it isn't rush hour and 25 (maaaaaybe 30) minutes during rush hour, so I can't complain about my commute! It's why I would buy a stick as my next daily driver. If I get an auto it'll probably be a used Volt. At that point why not?

      Also, I have no idea if they're still carjacking in big cities (I was being silly), but car theft in general is certainly still a thing.
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    9. Member Chris_V's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 09:20 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Do people still carjack?
      yeah, and it's on the rise in many places. here's locally: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...50289-132.html

      https://foxbaltimore.com/features/op...ng-in-maryland

      and in Chicago: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...611-story.html

      So yeah, I can see using the manual as an anti-theft device, though many of these teens are as likely to shoot you for retaliation for driving a manual...
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      05-15-2019 09:29 AM #9
      CSB: when I was younger, someone carjacked my neighbor's car when he was washing it. Bright yellow early Maser Cambiocorsa coupe. Drove it about 1/2 a mile in first gear before bailing and leaving the car on the side of the road.

      I don't worry so much about my cars getting stolen, but still to have the window smashed and who knows what else smashed in frustration isn't much better.
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      05-15-2019 09:37 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      I live in a small town and commute to Louisville, which takes something like 15-20 minutes when it isn't rush hour and 25 (maaaaaybe 30) minutes during rush hour, so I can't complain about my commute! It's why I would buy a stick as my next daily driver. If I get an auto it'll probably be a used Volt. At that point why not?

      Also, I have no idea if they're still carjacking in big cities (I was being silly), but car theft in general is certainly still a thing.
      My commute isn't too bad either, but I've had auto and stick cars on it and it kind of makes no difference for me. For the average person sitting in more and more traffic though I could see that 3rd pedal becoming more of an annoyance.

      As for stickshifts being theft deterrents... most of the time, sure. But then there's **** like this:

      https://jalopnik.com/carjacker-kills...car-1793199481

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      05-15-2019 09:56 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris_V View Post
      yeah, and it's on the rise in many places. here's locally: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...50289-132.html

      https://foxbaltimore.com/features/op...ng-in-maryland

      and in Chicago: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...611-story.html

      So yeah, I can see using the manual as an anti-theft device, though many of these teens are as likely to shoot you for retaliation for driving a manual...
      Easy solution: Don't drive thru the ghettos of Baltimore or Chicago. I'll give a free bonus tip and add Detroit to the list.

    13. Member Galrot's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 10:08 AM #12
      I'm genuinely surprised by how many opt for manual Toyotas in the US.

      99% of all Toyotas sold in Norway are automatics.

    14. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 10:16 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Easy solution: Don't drive thru the ghettos of Baltimore or Chicago. I'll give a free bonus tip and add Detroit to the list.
      Username checks out.

      But seriously, sometimes, you don't have a choice. It's expensive to live in cities and sometimes, just not being poor isn't a choice you have the luxury of making.

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      05-15-2019 10:27 AM #14
      I'm not sure if he was joking or serious, or whether one is any better than the other

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      05-15-2019 10:30 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Galrot View Post
      I'm genuinely surprised by how many opt for manual Toyotas in the US.

      99% of all Toyotas sold in Norway are automatics.
      I'm more on this side of the argument as well. I hope toyota removes the manual entirely from the corolla sedan because, who cares? No one buys a corolla for fun---it's a horribly dull car where I have serious doubts that a manual could make measurably better. So I'n surprised by how many people opted for the manual in the HB version. Is this vehicle more exciting to drive than the sedan? I like the styling, but toyota has decent styling across a lot of their lineup.

      Also not surprised that the 86 has a 33% manual take rate. That seems pretty high to me in this day and age. I would be surprised if the manual take rate is much higher for any performance car where a manual and automatic are available. I would be very surprised if more than 40% of miata owners go for the manual, for example. And with cars like the STI and Civic Si being manual only, there's clearly a case to be made that the manual transmission is of interest to owners of performance cars.

      It will be interesting to see how quickly a manufacturers force technology down our throat such that even driver-oriented performance cars are no longer available in a manual.

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      05-15-2019 10:32 AM #16
      Only 5% of Tacomas were manual transmission? No wonder Ford and Chevy skipped MT options for their midsize trucks. I kind of suspect that Jeep will get a better percent of MT Gladiators than Toyota does Tacomas though.

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      05-15-2019 10:34 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      I hope toyota removes the manual entirely
      Weren't you complaining about the Supra only being auto in another thread?

      Can you please provide a very lenghty, detailed explanation, as to why you think some cars should be offered in manual, and others no.

      Thank you.

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      05-15-2019 10:37 AM #18
      I wonder how much of this is related to the shenanigans of the regional distributors? There are lots of configurations of cars that technically exist but are not available in large swaths of the country because the distributor for the area refuses to carry particular combinations.

      I've run into this before when I wanted to buy a 5-door Yaris hatch with a stick (none were available and no dealers could be bothered to try and attempt to order one). I tried a few years prior to that to find a new Yaris with the then-optional ABS and had similar issues. They are carrying 6-speed Corolla hatches here in both SE and XSE (22 within 100 miles), but manual Scion/Corolla iMs were nonexistent, same with the sedans (none available in the outgoing or new model).

      Gulf States Toyota also doesn't offer the Tacoma SX (base SR with appearance package which is fender flares, painted bumpers and alloys instead of steelies) though they do have their own special edition with gross aftermarket wheels. The closest one on cars.com is 372 miles away from DFW in Kansas.

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      Last edited by adrew; 05-15-2019 at 10:40 AM.
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      05-15-2019 10:48 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Yuppie Scum View Post
      Easy solution: Don't drive thru the ghettos of Baltimore or Chicago. I'll give a free bonus tip and add Detroit to the list.

      It's not just happening in the "ghettos" though. It's happening in the surrounding counties and in nicer parts of town, where a lot of people work and commute to. And it's happening in rural and suburban America, too, though decidedly not as much (93% of carjackings are in urban and built up suburban areas). So just staying out of the "ghettos" is not going to help you, especially if you're commuting into town.

      Point is, it's not just "still a thing." It's actually on the rise worldwide. Possibly because more and more cars are automatics, and possibly because it's getting harder to steal a car any other way, with better and better anti-theft devices installed in so many newer cars.
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      05-15-2019 10:57 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post
      I wonder how much of this is related to the shenanigans of the regional distributors? There are lots of configurations of cars that technically exist but are not available in large swaths of the country because the distributor for the area refuses to carry particular combinations.
      I was just going to mention that as well. Toyota's regional distributors have much more control over which trim levels and options are available or not available than with other automakers. It was definitely true that certain regional distributors chose to not make the 5-door Yaris available with a manual transmission in their regions. Same thing with the Camry SE, back when you could still (at least theoretically) get it with a stick.

      Toyota's regional distributors also frequently have "mandatory options". For example, if you buy a Toyota in the Northeast, it's going to come with the Cold Weather Package regardless if you want it or not.
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      05-15-2019 11:09 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Which makes me wonder why in the **** someone would get an auto 86... which seems like the worst of both worlds
      If it was a dual clutch or 8ZF I wouldn't think anything of it, but it's a regular 6-speed slushbox that's slower than the manual, with a 5 less hp motor on a car that isn't dripping with horsepower to begin with.

      I think there's customers out there that just won't consider a manual under any circumstances, but still want a sports car.

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      05-15-2019 11:20 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Dubveiser View Post
      Weren't you complaining about the Supra only being auto in another thread?

      Can you please provide a very lenghty, detailed explanation, as to why you think some cars should be offered in manual, and others no.

      Thank you.
      You cut off his sentence. He actually did exactly what you're asking.

      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      I'm more on this side of the argument as well. I hope toyota removes the manual entirely from the corolla sedan because, who cares? No one buys a corolla for fun---it's a horribly dull car where I have serious doubts that a manual could make measurably better. So I'n surprised by how many people opted for the manual in the HB version. Is this vehicle more exciting to drive than the sedan? I like the styling, but toyota has decent styling across a lot of their lineup.

      Also not surprised that the 86 has a 33% manual take rate. That seems pretty high to me in this day and age. I would be surprised if the manual take rate is much higher for any performance car where a manual and automatic are available. I would be very surprised if more than 40% of miata owners go for the manual, for example. And with cars like the STI and Civic Si being manual only, there's clearly a case to be made that the manual transmission is of interest to owners of performance cars.

      It will be interesting to see how quickly a manufacturers force technology down our throat such that even driver-oriented performance cars are no longer available in a manual.
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    24. 05-15-2019 11:30 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      I'm more on this side of the argument as well. I hope toyota removes the manual entirely from the corolla sedan because, who cares? No one buys a corolla for fun---it's a horribly dull car where I have serious doubts that a manual could make measurably better. So I'n surprised by how many people opted for the manual in the HB version. Is this vehicle more exciting to drive than the sedan? I like the styling, but toyota has decent styling across a lot of their lineup.

      Also not surprised that the 86 has a 33% manual take rate. That seems pretty high to me in this day and age. I would be surprised if the manual take rate is much higher for any performance car where a manual and automatic are available. I would be very surprised if more than 40% of miata owners go for the manual, for example. And with cars like the STI and Civic Si being manual only, there's clearly a case to be made that the manual transmission is of interest to owners of performance cars.

      It will be interesting to see how quickly a manufacturers force technology down our throat such that even driver-oriented performance cars are no longer available in a manual.
      The take rate for the 86 seems a lot lower than say the GTI where I think it was closer to 50-50 manual vs dsg...

      Quote Originally Posted by adrew View Post
      I wonder how much of this is related to the shenanigans of the regional distributors? There are lots of configurations of cars that technically exist but are not available in large swaths of the country because the distributor for the area refuses to carry particular combinations.


      Toyota's regional distributor model always seemed odd to me. I seem to recall from the early 2000s, nearly every Toyota model sold in the SE AC was an "option" at extra charge. This included more expensive models like the sequoia and land cruiser too

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      05-15-2019 11:51 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Aw614 View Post
      The take rate for the 86 seems a lot lower than say the GTI where I think it was closer to 50-50 manual vs dsg...
      https://carbuzz.com/news/america-s-2...tch-the-manual

      This article states (assuming you trust the numbers) the GTI manual take rate to be 40%. Better than the 86, but not more than I would have expected.

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      05-15-2019 11:55 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 2.0T_Convert View Post
      Surprised to see 15% take rate for MT on the Corolla, was expecting single digits.
      That's too high. Maybe it's a result of early product mix coming from the factory.
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