20% of Caymans had the manual and 23% of Corvettes had manual each for 2016 or 2017. The general trend is that MT take rates are falling as PDK/Auto keep getting better.
I enjoyed the MKIV with a 6-speed MT years ago when I got to drive one around a few days and at the track, but the reality is that Toyota was very up front about how this was a budget-limited product. That's the whole reason both of their sports coupes are joint ventures: the FR-S with Subaru and the Supra with BMW. Obviously Toyota didn't want to take a big risk with either car since both are joint ventures. Maybe we'll see an MT Supra at some point but from a business standpoint, I think they made the right call. It appears only about 1 in 5 buyers of their competitors pick MT even as of a couple years ago. They made a business risk assessment and we are getting the Supra AT for now.
Some people just dislike new cars. It takes them time to warm up to current tech, design, features and ''feel''.
My uncle is like this. In the 80's, his favorite era was the 60's. In the 90's his favorite cars were from the 70's. In the 00's it was the 80's. Etc, etc, etc.
Now he's bitching about how complicated current cars and how analog and simple cars for early 00's were. He's been literally complaining about new cars as long as I can remember. Some people are just like that. Then years later he warms up to an automotive era and remembers it fondly.
People are allowed to dislike current cars. I have no issue with that.
Saying new cars are ''worse'' however, is just insane, like my uncle. Today's car are better in pretty much every possible aspect, that's not even arguable. That doesn't mean you have to like them, but they are definetaly not worse.
Last edited by Dubveiser; 05-15-2019 at 10:31 AM.
I've been struggling to understand why people like this car...but it's just not working for me. Whenever I see one, I keep seeing what typically happens when someone is drowning and someone jumps in and tries to save them: the drowning person pulls them under too. This thing is just plain fugly.
The abandonment of the manual transmission is not necessarily a change for the better, at least in performance cars. Nobody misses manual transmission 4 banger Camrys, but the fact that manual transmission only performance cars like the GT350, Civic Si/R, Veloster N etc. continue to exist = there's still plenty of healthy demand. All of the Supra's competitors besides its platform mate and the soon to be dead TT have manuals. M2 has a manual. So the insistence that it couldn't be done or that ditching the manual is progress just smells like beancounter bull**** run through a marketing filter to me.
Today, auto's are superior to manual transmissions, they still cost more generally but there is certainly proof from a development stand point for the beancounters.
When making a manual and auto variation, there are more than just a handful of items you have to consider, and because of volume I'd imagine the ends don't justify the means.
Trans & clutch components, RR diff, all of the mounts, axles, driveshaft, 3rd pedal, master cylinder + reservoir + lines, commonization for the dashboard to support two variants, commonization for the tunnel to accept two variants, interior components, engine calibration, braking calibration, manufacturing variations, additional development vehicles, additional development testing, + alpha.
+ Alpha = changes to parts which are not related to the variant specifically but must change because of packaging. Also, variant costs being a "low volume" tax by the suppliers because no one likes making low volume parts.
When considering a variant, we are not talking + millions, we are in the +10's of millions of investment, in addition to +10's of millions of development, it gets pretty expensive.
You may be able to reduce part cost or investment by some reasonable amount (carryover parts), but you wont be able to impact the development and engineering costs significantly.
All that said you made a manual, which cost a **** ton of money for a car which is slower 0-60 time, slower 1/4 mile time, and slower lap times generally speaking for majority of the tracks.
As a whole, manuals are decreasing because when available, people are buying less of them, that's fact.
If the market had auto's for all the manual only cars mentioned, I think we would see the truth behind other models which do.
When developing a vehicle with a limited market scope already, with limited profitability if any already, adding a variant is typically not an A level executive decision for the first model years. Beancounters scenario is a very real thing. Just because its been done before, doesn't mean anyone else can do it, each vehicle development can have different items to consider to make or break what the market gets.
I understand why autos are getting more popular; my current daily is an auto and I think I'm on the auto daily train for good. But is it really tens of millions more in development? Supra/Z4 are on the same CLAR platform as the 3er which has manual transmission variants. There are B58 cars with manual transmissions. You make it sound like BMW would have to develop all this stuff from scratch.
Just as a counterpoint, >50% of M2s sold are manuals.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...ssionsfor-now/“The BMW M2 Competition still has the manual for a reason, because in the U.S. we have more than a 50 percent take rate on manual transmissions for the M2,” he said
19 Mini Cooper S Countryman ALL4 6MT JCW Tuning Kit
18 BMW X3 M40i
17 Volvo XC90 T6 Inscription P*
*real buyers meaning people who actually tried to get one at the dealer with real money, not schmucks on the internet like me who couldn't buy one even if they were easily available for order
Toyota would have to spend millions of dollars to satisfy a small amount of buyers on a small volume platform. Unlike the Mustang, Porsches, and 2-series, it can't spread those development costs around.
I think they might eventually offer this car in manual but like others have said, the take rate will be low enough not to matter.
Last edited by JustinCSVT; 05-15-2019 at 04:48 PM.