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    1. Member gsauer15's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:49 AM #1
      The journalist have had their go in Toyota's new sports car and from what I can gather its a unanimous thumbs up! Almost all the independent Youtubers have praised the car. From Matt Farah to Engineering Explained and many more. They claim it perfectly neutral, has more than enough power, and the transmission fits it well. Most also had a chance to speak personally to Tetsuya Tada (the chief engineer for the Supra Project) and they praise his passion and genuinness towards this project given the circumstances they had to work with.

      Some thoughts on the philosophy of modern sports cars. Should you follow your roots or change with the times?

      If Toyota wanted to build a Supra themselves this is what it would be. Take a Lexus LC500 and place a body kit on it, strip out the nice interior and you'd probably see one of two engines, the Twin Turbo V6 from Lexus's new LS or the V8 that's currently in the LC500. Add to that it would most likely cost around $70-100K and probably be a very compromised driving experience. Would you call this a Supra? Just curious because I think I would but I don't matter potential buyers do and would a $80K Toyota work for anyone besides the internet fanboys? I also think this (along with the NSX) is/was a difficult but necessary experiment for auto manufactures of the world. The Supra and the NSX represent two sides of the same coin as far as developing a sports car goes. With the NSX Honda wanted to do something bold and inline with the heritage of the NSX of before. Boundary pushing, and truly a supercar killer but in doing so they produced a product that maybe didn't fit with what their customers truly wanted and ultimately came down to the fact that it cost almost $200K. Now lets ignore the fact that Toyota used BMW parts and see how the Supra differs just on specs alone. Instead of trying to create an evolution of the previous car they downsized it, striped some wheelbase, trimmed some length, ditched a few seats, and didn't try any exotic weight savings or tricks on it. As a result a car 20+ years down the road is only 15+ on horsepower, weights just a couple hundred pounds less despite being SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, and cost a mere 8,000 dollars more than it did in 1998.

      Toyota basically chose to change with the times and move the Supra down market in an attempt to sell more of them, and in doing so they had to cut cost by partnering with BMW and as a result they produced a very good sports car. Arguably going to be the best in its segment as far as a driving device goes.

      My question to you is was it worth the sacrifice of their Halo product. No doubt they will sell leaps and bounds more than if it was a $80K Lexus. But why should it when its your golden child? Audi doesn't sell a lot of R8's but that's the point, its supposed to be special. If you graduated College only by paying your roommate to complete all of your assignments would you still feel accomplished?

      I go back and forth on this all the time, its strange to me because I'm happy it exists, the world needs more great sports cars but its almost as if I just wish It wasn't called a Supra because a Supra is supposed to mean something that this car might not be.
      Last edited by gsauer15; 05-14-2019 at 09:07 AM.

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    3. 05-14-2019 08:56 AM #2
      Quote Originally Posted by gsauer15 View Post
      The journalist have had their go in Toyota's new sports car and from what I can gather its a unanimous thumbs up! Almost off of the independent Youtubers have praised the car. From Matt Farah to Engineering Explained and many more. They claim it perfectly neutral, has more than enough power, and the transmission fits it well. Most also had a chance to speak personally to Tetsuya Tada (the chief engineer for the Supra Project) and they praise his passion and genuinness towards this project given the circumstances they had to work with.

      Some thoughts on the philosophy of modern sports cars. Should you follow your roots or change with the times?

      If Toyota wanted to build a Supra themselves this is what it would be. Take a Lexus LC500 and place a body kit on it, strip out the nice interior and you'd probably see one of two engines, the Twin Turbo V6 from Lexus's new LS or the V8 that's currently in the LC500. Add to that it would most likely cost around $70-100K and probably be a very compromised driving experience. Would you call this a Supra? Just curious because I think I would but I don't matter potential buyers do and would a $80K Toyota work for anyone besides the internet fanboys? I also think this (along with the NSX) is/was a difficult but necessary experiment for auto manufactures of the world. The Supra and the NSX represent two sides of the same coin as far as developing a sports car goes. With the NSX Honda wanted to do something bold and inline with the heritage of the NSX of before. Boundary pushing, and truly a supercar killer but in doing so they produced a product that maybe didn't fit with what their customers truly wanted and ultimately came down to the fact that it cost almost $200K. Now lets ignore the fact that Toyota used BMW parts and see how the Supra differs just on specs alone. Instead of trying to create an evolution of the previous car they downsized it, striped some wheelbase, trimmed some length, ditched a few seats, and didn't try any exotic weight savings or tricks on it. As a result a car 20+ years down the road is only 15+ on horsepower, weights just a couple hundred pounds less despite being SIGNIFICANTLY smaller, and cost a mere 8,000 dollars more than it did in 1998.

      Toyota basically chose to change with the times and move the Supra down market in an attempt to sell more of them, and in doing so they had to cut cost by partnering with BMW and as a result they produced a very good sports car. Arguably going to be the best in its segment as far as a driving device goes.

      My question to you is was it worth the sacrifice of their Halo product. No doubt they will sell leaps and bounds more than if it was a $80K Lexus. But why should it when its your golden child? Audi doesn't sell a lot of R8's but that's the point, its supposed to be special. If you graduated College only by paying your roommate to complete all of your assignments would you still feel accomplished?

      I go back and forth on this all the time, its strange to me because I'm happy it exists, the world needs more great sports cars but its almost as if I just wish It wasn't called a Supra because a Supra is supposed to mean something that this car might not be.
      To me it should’ve been 100-120k. 150-200 more HP! A true halo car. This car looks and feels so so. For 50k you get that Toyota badge tho


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      Last edited by zllekk; 05-14-2019 at 09:07 AM.

    4. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:04 AM #3
      I go with the option that I can experience.

      GTR's cost 100k or whatever, and many argue that while being a very high performance product, it wasn't really that fun to drive.

      Sounds like Toyota has had the right idea in developing cars that are fun to drive out of the box yet making provisions for the aftermarket to take care of the rest of it. I haven't seen many other companies thinking of the aftermarket and making engineering/design decisions for the aftermarket.

      As much as we argue about the BRZ/FRS being slow etc, it's still been a pretty good success and it will always be considered a balanced sports car in the market segment it's in.

      I think the Supra will be very similar, except it will be better, due to it having that turbo inline 6. That motor should be very tuneable and most people won't want to make it 800+hp or something silly (which is what makes the 2JZ so legend). With a full bolt on setup, I'm sure this BMW motor will be touching +450hp.

      Also I think it's cool that they're considering doing a 4-banger turbo as well.

      All in all, I think it's very smart that Toyota has made this car more accessible, has focused more on balance, dynamics, yet left some on the table for future iterations and aftermarket. And has placed it at a more affordable price segment which means, I may actually be able to afford one.
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    5. Member MonsterM's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:06 AM #4
      BMW Supra is a failed attempt from BMW to restore their sporty image.

    6. 05-14-2019 09:10 AM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      I go with the option that I can experience.

      GTR's cost 100k or whatever, and many argue that while being a very high performance product, it wasn't really that fun to drive.

      Sounds like Toyota has had the right idea in developing cars that are fun to drive out of the box yet making provisions for the aftermarket to take care of the rest of it. I haven't seen many other companies thinking of the aftermarket and making engineering/design decisions for the aftermarket.

      As much as we argue about the BRZ/FRS being slow etc, it's still been a pretty good success and it will always be considered a balanced sports car in the market segment it's in.

      I think the Supra will be very similar, except it will be better, due to it having that turbo inline 6. That motor should be very tuneable and most people won't want to make it 800+hp or something silly (which is what makes the 2JZ so legend). With a full bolt on setup, I'm sure this BMW motor will be touching +450hp.

      Also I think it's cool that they're considering doing a 4-banger turbo as well.

      All in all, I think it's very smart that Toyota has made this car more accessible, has focused more on balance, dynamics, yet left some on the table for future iterations and aftermarket. And has placed it at a more affordable price segment which means, I may actually be able to afford one.
      Yeah but the original Supra wasn’t accessible. This one shouldn’t be either. I should see 1 or 2 throughout the year. Not 100. Remember you got to pay to play. This car shouldn’t be as cheap as my golf r. Wtf


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    7. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:23 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Yeah but the original Supra wasn’t accessible. This one shouldn’t be either. I should see 1 or 2 throughout the year. Not 100. Remember you got to pay to play. This car shouldn’t be as cheap as my golf r. Wtf


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      Sorry - the inaccessibility of a product isn't an attractive feature for me. I don't think the 'you got to pay to play' is a hard rule either. People can have just as much fun in a $40k car as an $80k car. There are plenty of cars that don't deliver on driving dynamics or enjoyment.

      And there are cars that are very fun to drive at the lower end... Miata, FR-S, Civic Type R, Focus RS.

      I think we should be happy that Toyota has decided to save costs by partnering with one of the best companies in the industry that are making inline-6's today and have platforms that are focused on driving dynamics. Toyota could have done much worse.
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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    8. 05-14-2019 09:27 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      Sorry - the inaccessibility of a product isn't an attractive feature for me. I don't think the 'you got to pay to play' is a hard rule either. People can have just as much fun in a $40k car as an $80k car. There are plenty of cars that don't deliver on driving dynamics or enjoyment.

      And there are cars that are very fun to drive at the lower end... Miata, FR-S, Civic Type R, Focus RS.

      I think we should be happy that Toyota has decided to save costs by partnering with one of the best companies in the industry that are making inline-6's today and have platforms that are focused on driving dynamics. Toyota could have done much worse.
      I am simply talking about the price not making me interested in it. I am positive it will be fun. I like rare cars not accessible ones that should be rare. It’s just my opinion on why I won’t buy this car. The future iterations of the M2, RS3 and TTRS are all on my list before this Supra.


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    9. 05-14-2019 09:30 AM #8
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      I go with the option that I can experience.

      GTR's cost 100k or whatever, and many argue that while being a very high performance product, it wasn't really that fun to drive.

      Sounds like Toyota has had the right idea in developing cars that are fun to drive out of the box yet making provisions for the aftermarket to take care of the rest of it. I haven't seen many other companies thinking of the aftermarket and making engineering/design decisions for the aftermarket.
      I think this is the point that people are missing. The ZF8 is super robust and the BMW engine has a lot of potential. But it definitely appears to be a well rounded machine that Toyota injected enough "supra" into.
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      05-14-2019 09:31 AM #9
      It's hard to say as the MK4's legend really blew up long after Toyota stopped selling it here. But the JZA80 became a legend because it represented the sum of Toyota's capabilities in the context of a performance car. This, while objectively great, is a rebadged + retuned Z4 coupe. Truthfully, the modern Supra is the RC-F. It's got everything Toyota can do in a performance context, it's probably the last car of its kind Toyota will make (I think that 5.0L's days are numbered); it shares major components with RWD Toyota sedans; it's a little overweight compared to the competition, 2+2 seater etc.

      For me, the bigger remaining question is whether or not this is worth it over a 370Z Sport and a meager investment in addressing all its issues. Suspension, squarer wheels/tires, mechanical LSD, pads/rotors/fluid, SPL spherical bushings, $400 phone capable headunit. You can do all that and some bolt ons probably for $45K all in and have something as fast and decently sorted with 3 pedals.

    11. Senior Member danny_16v's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:40 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      I am simply talking about the price not making me interested in it. I am positive it will be fun. I like rare cars not accessible ones that should be rare. It’s just my opinion on why I won’t buy this car. The future iterations of the M2, RS3 and TTRS are all on my list before this Supra.


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      A car's rarity doesn't necessarily coincide with it's MSRP. More to do with production numbers, I don't know how many Toyota will make hopefully many. All of the other cars you've listed are under $70k and you can buy them today as well.
      GLi : M3 : CX5
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    12. 05-14-2019 09:44 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by danny_16v View Post
      A car's rarity doesn't necessarily coincide with it's MSRP. More to do with production numbers, I don't know how many Toyota will make hopefully many. All of the other cars you've listed are under $70k and you can buy them today as well.
      In my mind the Supra is legendary. This doesn’t hit that legendary bar for me. If I spend south of 80k on my next ride in 4-6 years I will be into those 3. I am not telling you not to like it! I don’t like it! That’s all!


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    13. 05-14-2019 09:53 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Yeah but the original Supra wasn’t accessible. This one shouldn’t be either. I should see 1 or 2 throughout the year. Not 100. Remember you got to pay to play. This car shouldn’t be as cheap as my golf r. Wtf


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      WTF are you talking about, the "original Supra wasn't accessible"? The original Supra was basically a sporty trim level Celica, hence it being the Celica Supra for 8 years.

    14. 05-14-2019 09:56 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by The Kilted Yaksman View Post
      WTF are you talking about, the "original Supra wasn't accessible"? The original Supra was basically a sporty trim level Celica, hence it being the Celica Supra for 8 years.
      Growing up in GA I never saw one in the 90s. It was super rare. This new Supra doesn’t speak to me in the same light as the original. Why is this such a big deal? Let it rest. I think this car will be a hit without a doubt!


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    15. Member Spike Ti's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:59 AM #14
      If Toyota built the Supra everyone wanted they would’ve lost money.

      They should’ve just sold this with the 4 cylinder (making roughly 300hp) as a new GT86.

      I’ve never seen a Supra compared to a Porsche. Why they decided to channel a Boxster/Cayman is beyond me, because isn’t that what the BRZ/FRS was for? An everyday cheaper well handling car. The MK4 Supra was always a Japanese Muscle car imo.

    16. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:21 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Growing up in GA I never saw one in the 90s. It was super rare. This new Supra doesn’t speak to me in the same light as the original. Why is this such a big deal? Let it rest. I think this car will be a hit without a doubt!
      That doesn't mean it wasn't accessible. Japanese cars sold in relatively tiny numbers when the Celica Supra debuted.

    17. 05-14-2019 10:32 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      I am simply talking about the price not making me interested in it. I am positive it will be fun. I like rare cars not accessible ones that should be rare. It’s just my opinion on why I won’t buy this car. The future iterations of the M2, RS3 and TTRS are all on my list before this Supra.


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      So this car that is 50-60K is too accessible and common for you, but cars that are based on 30K garden variety base models aren't???? Lol.
      Last edited by PrettyHateMachine; 05-14-2019 at 10:40 AM.

    18. 05-14-2019 10:34 AM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by PrettyHateMachine View Post
      So this car that is 50-60K is too accessible and common for you, but cars that are based on 30K garden variety base models are???? Lol.
      Yeah that 5cyl in the RS3 and TTRS is garden variety.


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    19. 05-14-2019 10:35 AM #18
      I appreciate all of you trying to sell me on the Supra though!


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    20. Moderator Oliver@triplezoom's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:45 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Yeah that 5cyl in the RS3 and TTRS is garden variety.
      That's not what he said.

    21. 05-14-2019 10:46 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
      That's not what he said.
      I know. this is also not what the thread is about.


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    22. 05-14-2019 10:46 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      Yeah that 5cyl in the RS3 and TTRS is garden variety.


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      Since reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong suit, I will expand on this. This car starts at 50K. It will not be built in huge numbers. BMW and Audi on the other crank out thousands upon thousands of A3's and 2 Series. Every entry level secretary and college grad with their first 'real' job has one. If you don't see how that erodes the exclusivity of an M2 or RS3, I think you are applying some pretty flawed logic.


      Also, in the case of the RS3 and TT RS, they won't come close to matching this car's level of athleticism and driving dynamics. The M2, maybe.


      I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. I personally couldn't care less whether this car is successful or not. I'm not a Toyota or Supra fan. I wouldn't buy this car with my own money. I'm simply pointing out your line of reasoning doesn't carry much merit.

    23. 05-14-2019 10:47 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by PrettyHateMachine View Post
      Since reading comprehension clearly isn't your strong suit, I will expand on this. This car starts at 50K. It will not be built in huge numbers. BMW and Audi on the other crank out thousands upon thousands of A3's and 2 Series. Every entry level secretary and college grad with their first 'real' job has one. If you don't see how that erodes the exclusivity of an M2 or RS3, I think you are applying some pretty flawed logic.


      Also, in the case of the RS3 and TT RS, they won't come close to matching this car's level of athleticism and driving dynamics. The M2, maybe.


      I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. I personally couldn't care less whether this car is successful or not. I'm not a Toyota or Supra fan. I wouldn't buy this car with my own money. I'm simply pointing out your line of reasoning doesn't carry much merit.
      Hahahaha thanks for the love sweetheart


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    24. 05-14-2019 10:52 AM #23
      I think I rather spend 50k on the 2JZ Supra legend... no offense it’s great looking and looks tossable but.... idk it doesn’t look like it catches my attention like “The Original “


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      05-14-2019 11:00 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by zllekk View Post
      To me it should’ve been 100-120k. 150-200 more HP! A true halo car. This car looks and feels so so. For 50k you get that Toyota badge tho


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      Toyota already made one like you describe.... it is called Lexus LC. It is STUPID for Toyota to made a 100k Toyota. The new Honda NSX is actually an Acura. Nissan is struggling to sell GTR. Ford is kind of success because very low production number (like Lexus LFA).

      The Fast and Furious made Supra "Over legendary".
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    26. Member gsauer15's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:00 AM #25
      Not to interrupt but it seems that the conversation is swaying more towards attacking an individual for an opinion on the Supra which isnt very productive. I believe he/she is entitled to say that the new Supra doesn't feel very special and in some ways i agree. I know its a bespoke platform but it is heavily produced BMW, even the door sticker say build by BMW. So its a fair argument to say it isnt as "Toyota Supra" feeling as the previous generation. Also If im not mistaken someone said the "original Supra" but I think they where referring to the previous JZA80 generation from the 90's then the truly original Celica Supra from several generations ago.

      But i love seeing all the opinions on this!

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