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    1. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:57 AM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Karl O. View Post
      My TSX w/tech has mechanical HVAC controls. Not sure what you're thinking of, but it's not a TSX.
      Sorry should have specified the Gen 1 equipped with Navi.

      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
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      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
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    3. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:10 AM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by nemesis099 View Post
      I had the 2013 FFE as well and it was pretty solid but the voice recognition stuff was horrible. I hit the button say "Call Wife" and it would respond calling some random person in my contacts like "Calling John Smith Esquire". This is one of the reasons why I really like Android Auto in my new car as using Google's voice recognition is much better.

      I think the 2015 had the upgraded MFT system that is in the Ford vehicles today and that was a huge step up when I looked at it.

      How is the FFE holding up. I was thinking about buying a used one so I could be in an electric car again.
      I need to do an update to my original post since used EV threads are So Hot Right Now WillFerrell.jpg

    4. Member Karl O.'s Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:12 AM #28
      Yeah, that looks annoying. It least it has buttons though.

      The good thing about the 2nd gen, with an Accord dash kit you can remove the entire infotainment system and go aftermarket if you want. There is a ton of retrofit stuff for most cars now, even systems that can interface with the factory screens. Still, it's a long way from my S2000, which came with a DIN CD player that you couldn't hear with the top down and had no clock.

    5. 05-14-2019 11:21 AM #29
      Still not as bad as the Cadillac Cue fisaco.

    6. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:28 AM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by Aseras View Post
      Still not as bad as the Cadillac Cue fisaco.
      Was this that bad?


      How To Restart, Or ‘Hard Reset’, Cadillacs With CUE Infotainment System


      The growing amount technology in today’s vehicles has enabled about all kinds of convenient and exciting connectivity, information, and entertainment possibilities. Said technology works very well most of the time, but it does malfunction or cease to work every now and again. A perfect example is the Cadillac CUE infotainment system, which can sometimes “run away”, preventing the driver and passengers from controlling such items as radio, navigation, and sometimes even HVAC functions. The good news is that most CUE glitches can be solved simply by restarting the system.

      Besides solving general glitches with CUE, a hard reset/restart can also solve issues with:

      CUE not recognizing inputs on the touchscreen
      CUE not recognizing HVAC settings on the touch panel
      Issues with various OnStar features

    7. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 11:38 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by Karl O. View Post
      My TSX w/tech has mechanical HVAC controls. Not sure what you're thinking of, but it's not a TSX.

      Am I odd for thinking "mechanical controls" means that you have levers that directly manipulate the hvac doors/fans?

      Having individual buttons is great, but it's no more mechanical than pushing an imaginary button on a touchscreen. All you're doing is sending a command to a computer.

      These are mechanical -





      These are not





      I'll agree that I'd rather push real buttons than buttons on a touchscreen. Especially since it makes it a separate entity. If the HVAC controller in my E46 fails I can remove it and replace it without replacing the radio/nav/news/weather/hvac all in one touchscreen.

      But it is by no means "mechanical".
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    8. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 12:10 PM #32
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      Anyone who claims that while driving their eyes are glued forward and they never look at any control or anything else in the vehicle, and operate every control by braille, is a ****ing liar. We ALL look at various controls, indications, radio station, kid in the car, water bottle, that odd bit of schmutz on the steering wheel, and "take your eyes off the road" all. the. damn. time. The problem isn't a screen, it's whether you can at a glance identify what you want and not get absorbed into working it. Masses of buttons can be more distracting if you have to look for something.

      Also, it's clear who's never actually used the tech that they're railing against. For everyone who claims they have to adjust their vents contestantly, you can just tap the centre bottom of the screen and the HVAC interface pops up, and you can just leave it displayed. Then, without looking, you can just touch the screen and move your finger around and the air follows it. For radio volume, you use the steering wheel buttons OR just swipe your hand across the bottom of the screen without looking at it (there's no visible interface for this anyway) to adjust the volume (swipe right = increase, left = decrease).

      I've spent 6 years in a car with a touchscreen (not a great one) and a mess of *non-tactile* "buttons". Most of the claims being thrown around in this thread simply aren't true. Whether it's physical controls, or a screen, what makes it good or bad is how well it's designed as a user interface. There are good physical controls, and crappy ones. There are good screens, and crappy ones. The difference is that crappy on-screen software can be upgraded and problems solved, where physical controls can't. A 2012 Tesla in 2019 is NOT the same as a 2012 Tesla in 2012.

      Wow - there's so much assumption and projection here it's staggering.
      It isn't just assumption. Of course everyone looks away, but the amount of time you have to look at a touch screen is most certainly greater than if you were locating buttons/knobs. You can pretend that a good design will make them equal, but even though it certainly helps, it's simply a matter of degree as to how much worse it is in that regard. Some good designs may be "acceptable", but that's simply as good as they're going to get. You will never have the eyes-on-the-road time as the previous industry standard of three rotary dials. Crank the temp knob and fan speed as far as you want and no, you don't need to look at them (assuming they're within reach), and even if you do, it's only while your hand is reaching for the knob and you can locate the other two after you grab the first. I know because I do it all the time. That simply cannot be said about touch screens. You are forced to look at them every time you use them, and for a longer period of time.

      Also, if a heater control switch fails (which is unlikely), then I can't change the heater.


      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Anytime we scoff at too much technology and share our fondness of knobs and buttons, The Millennial* Lounge wakes up. Thought I would beat them to it.

      *Also Gen Z. You know who you are.
      Yeah, I understand. I just wasn't sure if that was some specific dude from a TV show, ad campaign or some such.

      Of course we know that the kids are wrong. I'm all for high tech, but I'll pick and choose where I implement it. I don't need nor even want a stove or thermostat that connects to the internet and I don't want/need a touch screen in my car. The negatives outweigh the positives. What's the actual advantage of having a touch screen for wiper or blower motor control?
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

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      05-14-2019 12:57 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      It isn't just assumption. Of course everyone looks away, but the amount of time you have to look at a touch screen is most certainly greater than if you were locating buttons/knobs. You can pretend that a good design will make them equal, but even though it certainly helps, it's simply a matter of degree as to how much worse it is in that regard. Some good designs may be "acceptable", but that's simply as good as they're going to get. You will never have the eyes-on-the-road time as the previous industry standard of three rotary dials. Crank the temp knob and fan speed as far as you want and no, you don't need to look at them (assuming they're within reach), and even if you do, it's only while your hand is reaching for the knob and you can locate the other two after you grab the first. I know because I do it all the time. That simply cannot be said about touch screens. You are forced to look at them every time you use them, and for a longer period of time.

      Also, if a heater control switch fails (which is unlikely), then I can't change the heater.




      Yeah, I understand. I just wasn't sure if that was some specific dude from a TV show, ad campaign or some such.

      Of course we know that the kids are wrong. I'm all for high tech, but I'll pick and choose where I implement it. I don't need nor even want a stove or thermostat that connects to the internet and I don't want/need a touch screen in my car. The negatives outweigh the positives. What's the actual advantage of having a touch screen for wiper or blower motor control?
      My previous vehicle (Wrangler JKU) was equipped with the base, non-touch screen infotainment unit.
      I would say that I rarely had to take my eyes off the road when operating it.
      I had a "home" spot on the dashboard, where I'd rest my thumb. From there, I knew exactly where my index finger needed to be, in order to activate specific functions.
      It was probably a testament to good ergonomic engineering, on FCA's part, because all of the most frequently used buttons were very close to the driver, and were typically covered in my fingerprint smudges.

    10. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 01:14 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      This was my takeaway. Mature automakers would use a Grade 2 screen, Tesla selected a Grade 4 screen because Elon Musk's San Francisco bias prevented him from understanding just how much hotter the rest of the country can get than the cloudy bay area. The company cut corners left and right because of a failure to understand just how different the real world is from Elon Musk's version of the world.
      Musk lives in Los Angeles... I'm sure he is aware of how hot things get.

      It's just simple hubris, not location bias that is driving his decision making. You know... like his boring company fiasco - another hubris filled side project that made so many mistakes in tunnel design and construction that it is held up as an example of how not to build a sewage pipe.

    11. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 01:34 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Musk lives in Los Angeles... I'm sure he is aware of how hot things get.

      It's just simple hubris, not location bias that is driving his decision making. You know... like his boring company fiasco - another hubris filled side project that made so many mistakes in tunnel design and construction that it is held up as an example of how not to build a sewage pipe.
      Various weather sites show average LA highs in summer to be 79 to 84 deg F. That isn't hot. Yes, there are record highs into the 100s but it isn't like some place like Phoenix where 100 degrees is sustained day after day for several months.

      https://www.usclimatedata.com/climat...tates/usca1339

    12. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 01:48 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by whitejeep1989 View Post
      My previous vehicle (Wrangler JKU) was equipped with the base, non-touch screen infotainment unit.
      I would say that I rarely had to take my eyes off the road when operating it.
      I had a "home" spot on the dashboard, where I'd rest my thumb. From there, I knew exactly where my index finger needed to be, in order to activate specific functions.
      It was probably a testament to good ergonomic engineering, on FCA's part, because all of the most frequently used buttons were very close to the driver, and were typically covered in my fingerprint smudges.
      See? "Adequate", but no improvement.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    13. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 01:53 PM #37
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      Various weather sites show average LA highs in summer to be 79 to 84 deg F. That isn't hot. Yes, there are record highs into the 100s but it isn't like some place like Phoenix where 100 degrees is sustained day after day for several months.

      https://www.usclimatedata.com/climat...tates/usca1339
      Plus the humidity difference. Here we regularly get mid 90º temps, but with extremely high humidity which can affect electronics.

      I've seen as much as 104º highs in summer and -18º in winter. That's a huge temperature swing that LA simply doesn't get. Those are definitely the extremes and neither happened for extended periods, but still... Don't even get me started on ice storms (which he also didn't take into account).
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
      Proletariat, Bourgeoise - Everybody smellin' my potpourri...

    14. 05-14-2019 01:58 PM #38
      It's not a reboot it issue. It's a mircocracking and poor QA and installation and RF interference issue.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=cadi...pider&tbm=isch

      examples. ALL the replacements will also fail because they have never fixed it, only replacement to push it out of warranty coverage.
      Last edited by Aseras; 05-14-2019 at 02:01 PM.

    15. Member VWestlife's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:03 PM #39
      Quote Originally Posted by Aseras View Post
      Still not as bad as the Cadillac Cue fisaco.
      But MyFordTouch gave us such wonderful things as a radio that locks up and continues playing even after you turn off the ignition and lock the doors:

      __________

    16. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:03 PM #40
      This whole thread makes me laugh.
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    17. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:07 PM #41
      is anybody really surprised though?
      the article touched on it already but this is their entire approach to the car.

      from "full" self driving, to non automotive touchscreens, to crazy door handles and gullwing doors, its not that they're necessarily smarter its that they take risks other OEMs wont, and putting non automotive grade bits fits that.
      ive always wondered, and even asked tesla employees i know, about their offsite testing, or rigorous durability testing, and you usually dont get an answer.

      elon deserves all the credit for marketing this approach as being better, as theres no question folks particularly those outside the automotive industry, and have really taken to the marketing
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    18. Member IdontOwnAVW's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 02:12 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Sorry should have specified the Gen 1 equipped with Navi.

      Press Auto, set desired temperature.

      Magic.
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    19. Member jddaigle's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:21 PM #43
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      I'm interested in repair and longevity, and these features (cost effective or not) get in the way of this.
      Yup.

      It's worth noting that almost no new cars have totally mechanical HVAC controls any more. They're just automatic climate control without the automatic part, and rely on servos actuated by a control unit that gets commands from buttons on the dash.

      But at least even with those you can still troubleshoot problems component by component and replace them if need be to some extent.
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    20. Member fireside's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:37 PM #44
      Quote Originally Posted by IdontOwnAVW View Post
      Press Auto, set desired temperature.

      Magic.
      Is it sad that I get irrationally angry at my wife who does not follow this?

      I set it in my truck and I hardly adjust my HVAC.
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    21. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:33 PM #45
      Quote Originally Posted by fireside View Post
      Is it sad that I get irrationally angry at my wife who does not follow this?

      I set it in my truck and I hardly adjust my HVAC.
      I get irrationally angry when I turn it on auto and it goes full fan right in my face.

      I hate that, so I never use auto.
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      05-14-2019 09:58 PM #46
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      is anybody really surprised though?
      the article touched on it already but this is their entire approach to the car.

      from "full" self driving, to non automotive touchscreens, to crazy door handles and gullwing doors, its not that they're necessarily smarter its that they take risks other OEMs wont, and putting non automotive grade bits fits that.
      ive always wondered, and even asked tesla employees i know, about their offsite testing, or rigorous durability testing, and you usually dont get an answer.

      elon deserves all the credit for marketing this approach as being better, as theres no question folks particularly those outside the automotive industry, and have really taken to the marketing
      It's one thing to take calculated or productive risks

      Tesla does **** differently just to say they "disrupted". Only for it to blow up in their face like clockwork. A lot of practices are established... because they're proven to work the best.

    23. I need new ones NeverEnoughCars's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:15 PM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by fireside View Post
      Is it sad that I get irrationally angry at my wife who does not follow this?

      I set it in my truck and I hardly adjust my HVAC.
      In my daily it is either full cold at full blast or off. But I wear shorts in the winter as well as sleep with the windows open most "winter", late fall, and early spring.
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbio! View Post
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    24. Member 88c900t's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:23 PM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by IdontOwnAVW View Post
      Press Auto, set desired temperature.

      Magic.
      And should you want something other than defrost at full fan speed?



      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post

      These are not



      .
      I always thought it was bold for GM to go digital in their trucks way back in MY1988.
      Typical forum guy with busted third-hand cars.
      Quote Originally Posted by Kiyokix View Post
      I like this guy, I like this guy a lot.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      88c900t wins again, you really ****ing crush it at listing a ton of cheap options
      Quote Originally Posted by volvohutter View Post
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    25. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:29 PM #49
      LOL. Try these;


    26. 05-14-2019 10:35 PM #50
      Quote Originally Posted by ValveCoverGasket View Post
      is anybody really surprised though?
      the article touched on it already but this is their entire approach to the car.

      from "full" self driving, to non automotive touchscreens, to crazy door handles and gullwing doors, its not that they're necessarily smarter its that they take risks other OEMs wont, and putting non automotive grade bits fits that.
      ive always wondered, and even asked tesla employees i know, about their offsite testing, or rigorous durability testing, and you usually dont get an answer.

      elon deserves all the credit for marketing this approach as being better, as theres no question folks particularly those outside the automotive industry, and have really taken to the marketing
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      It's one thing to take calculated or productive risks

      Tesla does **** differently just to say they "dhttps://futurism.com/elon-musk-reach-moon-starship-raptorisrupted". Only for it to blow up in their face like clockwork. A lot of practices are established... because they're proven to work the best.
      I for one look forward to the future (and with a sense of dread mixed with giddy anticipation):


      https://futurism.com/elon-musk-reach...tarship-raptor

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