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    1. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 08:35 PM #1
      Tesla's Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters

      Not "professional grade"

      Lots of links in the original article text for references. Go to original article if you want to see them.

      Tesla's Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters
      Elon Musk bragged that the Model S's 17 inch screen isn't automotive grade, but now Tesla and its customers are mired in "replacement hell."


      Every bit of Tesla-related news and analysis tends to get sucked into the polarized debate over whether Tesla is the greatest company ever or an irredeemable fraud, which is a shame considering there are far more interesting and valuable insights to be gleaned from the company's experience. After all, this is the first time that Silicon Valley's move-fast-and-break-stuff approach has been applied to the methodical, measure-twice-cut-once auto industry and with more high-tech firms moving into mobility it's important that the right lessons are learned.

      One of the most dramatic illustrations of both the benefits and downsides of Tesla's approach to automaking comes from its decision to use 17-inch touch screens in its Model S and X. No automaker had ever used a screen even close to as large as the model Tesla used, and it instantly became a symbol of its entire approach to building cars like mobile devices. In the brutally competitive premium car market, the gigantic display became a rare example of a feature that totally differentiates Tesla's product from even its far newer competitors.

      But rarely is the question asked: why haven't other automakers kept up with Tesla's competition and installed a similarly massive screen in their cars? After all, if Tesla can buy such a screen from a supplier why can't Mercedes or Lexus? In order to answer this question, we must turn first to Ashlee Vance's biography of Elon Musk in which he brags about the process of sourcing the Model S display.

      “When we first talked about the touch-screen, the guys came back and said, ‘There’s nothing like that in the automotive supply chain,’” Musk said. “I said, ‘I know. That’s because it’s never been put in a f*cking car before.’” Musk figured that computer manufacturers had tons of experience making seventeen-inch laptop screens and expected them to knock out a screen for the Model S with relative ease. “The laptops are pretty robust,” Musk said. “You can drop them and leave them out in the sun, and they still have to work.” After contacting the laptop suppliers, Tesla’s engineers came back and said that the temperature and vibration loads for the computers did not appear to be up to automotive standards. Tesla’s supplier in Asia also kept pointing the carmaker to its automotive division instead of its computing division. As Musk dug into the situation more, he discovered that the laptop screens simply had not been tested before under tougher automotive conditions, which included large temperature fluctuations. When Tesla performed the tests, the electronics ended up working just fine.

      The screen Tesla ended up going with was the Innolux G170J1-LE1, which was designed for industrial rather than automotive applications. As such it was tested to a higher standard than many laptop screens, and its reliability test criteria (found on page 22 of this data sheet for rev C3 of the part [PDF]) might seem impressive to anyone outside of automotive supply chain professionals. Some of these standards include:

      High temperature operation test: +80C for 600 hours
      Low temperature operation test: -20C for 120 hours
      High temperature storage test: +90C for 500 hours
      Low temperature storage test: -40C for 500 hours
      Thermal shock storage test: -40C for 75 min <-> +85C for 75 min; 550 cycles, 1.5 hour/cycle.

      Keep in mind that this is a later revision introduced in 2016, whereas earlier versions were slightly less stringent. Turning to the AEC-Q100 standard for automotive grade thermal testing [PDF], we find that the standards for the parts that go into your car are much higher. Here is a quick rundown of a few of the thermal standards:

      Grade 4: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +90C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -10C tp +105C for 500 cycles.
      Grade 3: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +105C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -50C tp +105C for 500 cycles.
      Grade 2: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +125C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -50C tp +150C for 500 cycles
      Grade 1: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +150C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +150C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -65C tp +150C for 500 cycles
      Grade 0: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +175C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +175C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -65C tp +175C for 500 cycles

      As we can see, the Innolux screen is tested to roughly the lowest "Grade 4" standard, although even there its high temperature storage testing (as well as high temperatures in thermal cycling testing) falls slightly short. Electronic parts qualified for "passenger compartment hotspots" like a central display are typically tested to Grade 2, which the Innolux would almost certainly fail to pass. Dashboards and center stacks see some of the highest interior temperatures in a car, with +80C easily achieved through solar radiation and ambient temperature alone, and the nearby HVAC unit, the in-car processor for Autopilot and the display processor itselfadding considerable thermal load.

      Tesla's decision to use a large display that wasn't tested to higher automotive grade standards had fairly predictable results. First the Model S and X screens were plagued by a bizarre problem that was clearly caused by thermal issues: bubbles would form on the sides of the displays and eventually leak a gooey adhesive material into the car's interior. Tesla appeared to mostly fix this problem with its "cabin overheat protection" feature (which it sold as being to protect dogs and children, despite the fact that it held the temperature at +40C which is about the temperature where a child's organs will start shutting down) as well as revisions to the Innolux panel. Intriguingly, a blog post at Mentor Graphics suggests that Innolux was struggling with thermal management on a screen for an unspecified "high end automobile," ultimately concluding that "defining the boundary conditions for Innolux’s system is the responsibility of their customer, not Innolux."

      This was followed by another problem with Model S and X screens, which seems to have been even more widespread: the infamous "yellow banding" problem. This was similar to problems found on a number of touchscreen devices, from iPhones to Microsoft Surfaces, and it too seems to be the result of high thermal loads. Though "only" a cosmetic issue, many owners report having had Tesla replace their screens (in some cases multiple times) to address the problem. Ultimately, around the end of 2018 Tesla stopped replacing screens and told owners it was developing its own solution in-house, saying the new screen units would be available in the Summer of 2019.

      As early as April 19th, 2019, Tesla owners began to report that new screens were available and that replacement appointments could be scheduled. At least two pro-Tesla Youtubers did receive the new replacement screen, but another owner posted an invoice that suggested the new unit was simply remanufactured. Then, this Friday reports started coming in stating that Tesla had suddenly changed its mind and that yellowing screens would not be replaced for free (a recent rumor suggests that Tesla is discontinuing all "goodwill repairs"). The first owner to report this has a five-month-old car with the yellowing screen, and has already endured a series of hair-raising service issues, and at least two others had an appointment to replace his screen canceled unceremoniously.

      The latest word directly from Tesla comes from yet another forum poster, who relays the following message from a Tesla service rep:

      Good afternoon, I have some new around your touchscreen, I was provided with some information that changes things a lot for your appointment. Tesla is attempting to provided a free "healing" service that will eliminate the yellow lines without replacement or even remove of the unit. We are awaiting further details, whether this service will be mobile capable or not and when we will receive the equipment if it is considered mobile capable. In the interim I am sorry to say that if you do wish to have the touch screen changed we would have to charge you ,I apologize, this is new company policy that was given to use earlier today, please let me know if i can provide you with an estimate, thank you

      Another message, reportedly from Tesla service, reads

      “Good afternoon, I apologize about the inconvenience but the timeline given for repairs is because Tesla approved this repair last week and will be ordering the specialized tools needed to address this concern. If you wish to have it addressed sooner replacing the touchscreen is an option but will not be covered under warranty since we have not been able to address it with our approved method. Total cost for a screen replacement is $1,346.75 including taxes. Please advise on how you would like to proceed.”

      Reports are still coming in, and though we aren't yet sure how Tesla will ultimately deal with this saga that has been playing out for years we can at least divine an important lesson from it. This story illustrates why the auto industry moves slowly, tests relentlessly and emphasizes automotive grade reliability and performance over the latest tech and the largest screens. Using a smaller, more expensive automotive grade screen might have cost as much or more per unit and might not have impressed as many consumers, but it might have at least saved Tesla from years of free replacements, bogged-down service centers, and frustrated customers. Especially at mass-market scale, it's always worthwhile to take your lumps upfront than to try to skate by with unqualified hardware and fix units one by one as they fail.

      In fairness, other automakers have had issues with touchscreens as well. Just last year, Ford settled a class action lawsuit over a host of problems with its MyFordTouch systems and had previously extended warranty coverage for its SYNC systems. Cadillac had to recently revamp its CUE touchscreen system after numerous issues including "the dreaded spiderweb cracks." But it's one thing for a few products in a lineup to have problems, especially if they can be pushed onto the supplier, and quite another for the only car in your lineup (until the Model 3 started shipping in real volume last year) to have such persistent issues with one of their main features. Meanwhile, the real question that this all raises is still to be answered: how well did Tesla learn this lesson with its Model 3?



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    3. 05-13-2019 08:41 PM #2
      for utter crapness nothing beats myfordtouchit4timestowork

    4. Senior Member Iroczgirl's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 10:16 PM #3
      Screens do not belong in a car. Period.

      I don't understand this obsession with screens. I can blend the heater just fine with a lever that operates a blend door and a fan switch.

      At some point we need to stop making things over-complicated just for the sake of making them over-complicated.

      Planned obsolescence is really all it is. I'm just not sure whether that pertains to the car...or the driver.
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    5. 05-13-2019 11:41 PM #4
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      Screens do not belong in a car. Period.

      I don't understand this obsession with screens. I can blend the heater just fine with a lever that operates a blend door and a fan switch.

      At some point we need to stop making things over-complicated just for the sake of making them over-complicated.

      Planned obsolescence is really all it is. I'm just not sure whether that pertains to the car...or the driver.
      Screens are here to stay. They’re now a cost saving measure.

    6. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 11:57 PM #5
      Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
      Screens are here to stay. They’re now a cost saving measure.
      Yup. So much cheaper to integrate than to make 50+ custom buttons for a single model. Its what the people want too. Wanna be that frumpy OEM like Blackberry was in 2009 or sexy ass Apple with the iphone?
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      05-14-2019 12:24 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Yup. So much cheaper to integrate than to make 50+ custom buttons for a single model. Its what the people want too. Wanna be that frumpy OEM like Blackberry was in 2009 or sexy ass Apple with the iphone?
      Sure if its done right you can save money and actually have a better user interface. However, the sexy iPhone you are referring to has an incredible amount of money and time invested. You cant be possibly comparing Iphones from one of the top electronics consumer producer in the world to a screen in a Tesla that was sourced based on Musk desire to have a big screen in the car. Frankly it's embarrassing that the Tesla screens are not tested to automotive standards.

    8. Senior Member nm+'s Avatar
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      05-14-2019 12:24 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      Screens do not belong in a car. Period.

      I don't understand this obsession with screens. I can blend the heater just fine with a lever that operates a blend door and a fan switch.

      At some point we need to stop making things over-complicated just for the sake of making them over-complicated.

      Planned obsolescence is really all it is. I'm just not sure whether that pertains to the car...or the driver.
      I mean, i see the appeal, android auto is fairly nice on the rental cars I've had. Also, there are some really amazing backup cameras.
      However, I'm not really into it simply because a lot of these cars basically lose audio and HVAC if it dies. I'm glad my mazda has some "dumb" dials and buttons and an aux-in jack.
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    9. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:15 AM #8
      This is exactly why I don’t like the over reliance on touch screens. The wife’s Encore is just before the refresh, so it has a screen with a good backup camera (which the car desperately needs because of its blind spots), but it isn’t even a touch screen at all. There’s a hat switch and a rotating ring below it to select functions. It’s far from perfect, but it works pretty well.

      I do not, under any circumstances, want any car that has all of its controls in a touch screen even if there are programmable switches elsewhere.

      A supplementary touch screen? I’m okay with that, but only for tertiary functions (though I’m sure all at least have secondary functions).
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      05-14-2019 07:28 AM #9
      I have to say, $1300 for a complete replacement is lower than I expected.

      I'm certain that if my infotainment touchscreen went out in my GM product, the cost would have been comparable or worse.

      It should be under warranty though.....

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      05-14-2019 07:33 AM #10
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Yup. So much cheaper to integrate than to make 50+ custom buttons for a single model. Its what the people want too. Wanna be that frumpy OEM like Blackberry was in 2009 or sexy ass Apple with the iphone?
      The iphone is sexy or ass?
      It is a shiny block. Nothing special.
      I would rather go back to manual wiper blades and optional radios than have touch screens for everything.
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      05-14-2019 07:33 AM #11
      Quote Originally Posted by RockWgn View Post
      I have to say, $1300 for a complete replacement is lower than I expected.

      I'm certain that if my infotainment touchscreen went out in my GM product, the cost would have been comparable or worse.

      It should be under warranty though.....
      To be fair, the entire point of Tesla eschewing automotive grade hardware was for cost savings, so I would expect GM’s replacement costs to be higher.
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      05-14-2019 07:40 AM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      for utter crapness nothing beats myfordtouchit4timestowork
      The saving grace of MFT are the steering wheel controls. All the basic functions- changing radio source/track/volume and HVAC temp + speed are there. Really all I need

      MFT2 is abysmal though, I can't lie.

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      05-14-2019 07:59 AM #13
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Yup. So much cheaper to integrate than to make 50+ custom buttons for a single model. Its what the people want too. Wanna be that frumpy OEM like Blackberry was in 2009 or sexy ass Apple with the iphone?
      Let's not compare a $500 device we replace every few years and a $30K+ car that will have a 20+ year life.

      I agree with you, that this is probably becoming cost effective (like automatic transmissions, and power windows before them) but in my opinion, this **** doesn't belong in a long-life product like a vehicle. Just like touchscreen on washers, dryers, and refrigerators. Next thing you know, your seven year old washer needs a $800 component because the back light went out on the touch screen, and you end up replacing it because new ones are $900. It's ridiculous and wasteful, and all because someone at Whirlpool told us we needed to be able to start a load of wash from the office and we jumped in with both feet.

      I'm interested in repair and longevity, and these features (cost effective or not) get in the way of this.

      I like technology, but let's integrate it into everything because we can.


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      05-14-2019 08:28 AM #14
      Screens can be okay if there are redundant physical buttons as a backup (like the wheel buttons on a Focus ST with the premium sound system) but it's a serious disadvantage when it's touchscreen or nothing, like the Acura TSXs with the "tech package". Want to change the fanspeed or direction of the air? touchscreen only (one of my major knocks against the TSX).

      The vulnerabilities of Tesla vehicles will be a serious problem in just a couple of years, much less when these cars are surpassing 100K miles on a regular basis. At least an Acura or Lexus touchscreen can last 200K miles, Tesla's might not last 75k.

      The 1st gen GM CRT touchscreens from the 1980s had no redundant controls, and it was a blunder. The 2G did, and it was still a blunder.
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      05-14-2019 08:28 AM #15
      Quote Originally Posted by Iroczgirl View Post
      Screens do not belong in a car. Period.

      I don't understand this obsession with screens. I can blend the heater just fine with a lever that operates a blend door and a fan switch.
      I agree with you, but for a different reason. The advantage of the blend door lever and fan switch is that you can do it without having to take your eyes off the road. Screens completely prevent you from being able to operate them without looking, because everything feels the same.

      We have tons of ad campaigns around distracted driving... but still put screens in our cars that have to be looked at to operate.

    17. Geriatric Member Air and water do mix's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:42 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by @McMike View Post
      Let's not compare a $500 device we replace every few years and a $30K+ car that will have a 20+ year life.

      I agree with you, that this is probably becoming cost effective (like automatic transmissions, and power windows before them) but in my opinion, this **** doesn't belong in a long-life product like a vehicle. Just like touchscreen on washers, dryers, and refrigerators. Next thing you know, your seven year old washer needs a $800 component because the back light went out on the touch screen, and you end up replacing it because new ones are $900. It's ridiculous and wasteful, and all because someone at Whirlpool told us we needed to be able to start a load of wash from the office and we jumped in with both feet.

      I'm interested in repair and longevity, and these features (cost effective or not) get in the way of this.

      I like technology, but let's integrate it into everything because we can.
      Agreed 100%. I would pay extra not to have touch screens on a washer/dryer and would do the same for a car. Really.

      Also, is the pic supposed to represent a luddite? I honestly don't know.


      Quote Originally Posted by Stromaluski View Post
      I agree with you, but for a different reason. The advantage of the blend door lever and fan switch is that you can do it without having to take your eyes off the road. Screens completely prevent you from being able to operate them without looking, because everything feels the same.

      We have tons of ad campaigns around distracted driving... but still put screens in our cars that have to be looked at to operate.
      Also this.
      Quote Originally Posted by Boyz in da Park
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    18. Member masa8888's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:47 AM #17
      I prefer leasing stuff that will be obsolete in 3 years, and owning stuff with the least amount of this tech as possible. That way you get the best of both worlds.

    19. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:50 AM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by TheDrive
      Grade 4: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +90C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -10C tp +105C for 500 cycles.
      Grade 3: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +105C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -50C tp +105C for 500 cycles.
      Grade 2: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +125C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +125C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -50C tp +150C for 500 cycles
      Grade 1: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +150C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +150C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -65C tp +150C for 500 cycles
      Grade 0: High Temperature Operating Life (HTOL): +175C for 408 hours. High Temperature Storage Life (HTSL): +175C for 1,000 hours. Temperature Cycling: -65C tp +175C for 500 cycles

      As we can see, the Innolux screen is tested to roughly the lowest "Grade 4" standard ... Electronic parts qualified for "passenger compartment hotspots" like a central display are typically tested to Grade 2, which the Innolux would almost certainly fail to pass.
      This was my takeaway. Mature automakers would use a Grade 2 screen, Tesla selected a Grade 4 screen because Elon Musk's San Francisco bias prevented him from understanding just how much hotter the rest of the country can get than the cloudy bay area. The company cut corners left and right because of a failure to understand just how different the real world is from Elon Musk's version of the world.

    20. Member Unilateral Phase Detractor's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:15 AM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      The saving grace of MFT are the steering wheel controls. All the basic functions- changing radio source/track/volume and HVAC temp + speed are there. Really all I need

      MFT2 is abysmal though, I can't lie.
      For all the hate on MyFord Touch, I really haven't found it to be an issue in my Focus post software updates. Sure, it's slow to respond and the resistive touch screen takes a good push, but it's never actually failed on me. Connects with bluetooth every single day, starts up pretty quickly, and just works.

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      05-14-2019 09:40 AM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      For all the hate on MyFord Touch, I really haven't found it to be an issue in my Focus post software updates. Sure, it's slow to respond and the resistive touch screen takes a good push, but it's never actually failed on me. Connects with bluetooth every single day, starts up pretty quickly, and just works.
      MFT3 is a huge improvement over MFT2 so if your Focus has MFT3 it's probably not that bad. Wifey's MKX has been dead solid and she only drives like 10K miles a year so I'm seriously debating jumping to MFT3 in it. Android Auto is awesome and I hate fiddling with phones while we're in her car.

      For me, as long as the steering wheel controls are good I am good to go.

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      05-14-2019 09:43 AM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Stromaluski View Post
      I agree with you, but for a different reason. The advantage of the blend door lever and fan switch is that you can do it without having to take your eyes off the road. Screens completely prevent you from being able to operate them without looking, because everything feels the same.

      We have tons of ad campaigns around distracted driving... but still put screens in our cars that have to be looked at to operate.
      Anyone who claims that while driving their eyes are glued forward and they never look at any control or anything else in the vehicle, and operate every control by braille, is a ****ing liar. We ALL look at various controls, indications, radio station, kid in the car, water bottle, that odd bit of schmutz on the steering wheel, and "take your eyes off the road" all. the. damn. time. The problem isn't a screen, it's whether you can at a glance identify what you want and not get absorbed into working it. Masses of buttons can be more distracting if you have to look for something.

      Also, it's clear who's never actually used the tech that they're railing against. For everyone who claims they have to adjust their vents contestantly, you can just tap the centre bottom of the screen and the HVAC interface pops up, and you can just leave it displayed. Then, without looking, you can just touch the screen and move your finger around and the air follows it. For radio volume, you use the steering wheel buttons OR just swipe your hand across the bottom of the screen without looking at it (there's no visible interface for this anyway) to adjust the volume (swipe right = increase, left = decrease).

      I've spent 6 years in a car with a touchscreen (not a great one) and a mess of *non-tactile* "buttons". Most of the claims being thrown around in this thread simply aren't true. Whether it's physical controls, or a screen, what makes it good or bad is how well it's designed as a user interface. There are good physical controls, and crappy ones. There are good screens, and crappy ones. The difference is that crappy on-screen software can be upgraded and problems solved, where physical controls can't. A 2012 Tesla in 2019 is NOT the same as a 2012 Tesla in 2012.



      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      This was my takeaway. Mature automakers would use a Grade 2 screen, Tesla selected a Grade 4 screen because Elon Musk's San Francisco bias prevented him from understanding just how much hotter the rest of the country can get than the cloudy bay area. The company cut corners left and right because of a failure to understand just how different the real world is from Elon Musk's version of the world.
      Wow - there's so much assumption and projection here it's staggering.

    23. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 09:52 AM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by Air and water do mix View Post
      Also, is the pic supposed to represent a luddite? I honestly don't know.
      Anytime we scoff at too much technology and share our fondness of knobs and buttons, The Millennial* Lounge wakes up. Thought I would beat them to it.

      *Also Gen Z. You know who you are.

    24. Member nemesis099's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:04 AM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      For all the hate on MyFord Touch, I really haven't found it to be an issue in my Focus post software updates. Sure, it's slow to respond and the resistive touch screen takes a good push, but it's never actually failed on me. Connects with bluetooth every single day, starts up pretty quickly, and just works.
      I had the 2013 FFE as well and it was pretty solid but the voice recognition stuff was horrible. I hit the button say "Call Wife" and it would respond calling some random person in my contacts like "Calling John Smith Esquire". This is one of the reasons why I really like Android Auto in my new car as using Google's voice recognition is much better.

      I think the 2015 had the upgraded MFT system that is in the Ford vehicles today and that was a huge step up when I looked at it.

      How is the FFE holding up. I was thinking about buying a used one so I could be in an electric car again.

      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      MFT3 is a huge improvement over MFT2 so if your Focus has MFT3 it's probably not that bad. Wifey's MKX has been dead solid and she only drives like 10K miles a year so I'm seriously debating jumping to MFT3 in it. Android Auto is awesome and I hate fiddling with phones while we're in her car.

      For me, as long as the steering wheel controls are good I am good to go.
      Agreed Android auto is fantastic and the newest MFT is really good when I was checked out the Explorer and Expedition.
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    25. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:29 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      Wow - there's so much assumption and projection here it's staggering.
      Did you read the article? Musk is a micromanager and drives all decisions at Tesla. This has been well established since he came in to the company and continues to the present day. They have the quotes from Elon Musk himself right in the article saying "We tested it and found it was fine" and of course all their testing is in Palo Alto, California, which is also the region where most of their early Model S customers were. Read the article, it's clear that Elon Musk personally made the decision on what LCD panel to use and based it on his own local testing.

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      05-14-2019 10:54 AM #25
      Quote Originally Posted by 88c900t View Post
      Screens can be okay if there are redundant physical buttons as a backup (like the wheel buttons on a Focus ST with the premium sound system) but it's a serious disadvantage when it's touchscreen or nothing, like the Acura TSXs with the "tech package". Want to change the fanspeed or direction of the air? touchscreen only (one of my major knocks against the TSX).
      My TSX w/tech has mechanical HVAC controls. Not sure what you're thinking of, but it's not a TSX.


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