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    1. Member smoothsix's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 12:48 PM #101
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      Personally I don't think we should have any gas tax or vehicle taxes whatsoever, because such taxes tend to hit the working class the hardest. Do away with those taxes and raise taxes on the top tax bracket instead.
      Correct, except this argument is used to destroy our roads by not bothering to do Step 2, over and over and over again.

      Quote Originally Posted by KevinC View Post
      enough? What exactly is their fair share? 50%? 70%? 90%?? They already pay the bulk of all taxes, and some of you always want to extract more. It's insane.
      Cool story, Hansel. Now do it by effective percentages. We'll wait
      Dash cam people suck. Don't be a dash cam person.

      Quote Originally Posted by Dravenport View Post
      this thread is a mess, I can't tell if it's full of trolls or idiots and I'm not sure it matters

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    3. Senior Member LT1M21Stingray's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 12:49 PM #102
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      And ironically I found this in my FB feed this AM:
      It's not ironic. FB loves to spy on you.
      Quote Originally Posted by Mk1Madness
      Back when making your car faster and better handling was the big thing.
      Quote Originally Posted by Tavarish
      The car's best safety feature includes ejecting you in the moment of impact and wishing you the best of luck.
      Buy my couch!

    4. Member Volkl's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 01:29 PM #103
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post

      But the reality is, cars cause such a small percentage of road wear, which is what the gas tax is supposed to cover, it doesn't really matter. It's all trucks doing the damage anyways. Do they really need an extra $91 from each EV driver?
      Yea, look at the issues going on with I-80 bridges in Joliet and the damages around all of the super warehouses in the 80/55 corridor from the truck traffic.

      My brother, who lives in the Chicago burbs owns a small trucking company (3 trucks on the road). The company is based out of Indiana, and he NEVER buys fuel in IL. He used to work for a large trucking company before he started his own, and even they would encourage drivers not to buy fuel in the Chicagoland area. This is all lost revenue for the state of Illinois, and they are left dealing with the issues as a result.

    5. Member
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      05-15-2019 02:24 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      If someone was going to raise my taxes and direct it to actual TEACHER salaries, directly to people who are in the classroom with kids, I'd be all for it. But that's not how it works. They'll blow it on other stupid **** and just come back with the hand out again next year.
      Agreed.

      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Why should we pay property tax on cars? I already pay SUBSTANTIAL sales tax on cars at the point of purchase (8.25% in suburban Cook County, 9.5% in Chicago proper). There's no reason we should pay continued property tax on cars. Now, if you wanted to argue EVs are getting a free ride, I'd say you need to come up with a tax that approximates what others pay.
      My fault for not elaborating further. I don't like prop taxes but don't have a problem with how SC handles it. We have a 5% sales tax yet the car cap for any purchase is $300/400. Then you pay an annual prop tax to get your reg stickers every yr based on the value of your vehicle. 10 years of that tax (doing the math on my Audi, the $ figure has decreased each yr) is about the same as the new car sales tax would have been in your jurisdiction. And fwiw, my 4550 sf 5BR/4.5 bath on .8 acres of lakefront prop tax is probably 40% of what you would pay.

    6. 05-15-2019 03:20 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
      IL and NY are both vampiric ****holes that suck the citizens of the state dry in order to support their one decent city. If you are not earning 6+ figures and owning property in the one city, you should not be in the state.
      ding ding ding

      The pension monster is eating everything up.

      Fix that issue, and this state is great IMO. But no politician is going to risk their career/life by challenging the state labor unions
      Boiler Up!

    7. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 03:54 PM #106
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Yes and no.

      I moved here solely for my wife, who is from here, and basically hated it.

      However:

      -lots and lots of industry here, I can move around lots of big companies seamlessly
      -very very good public education in the right neighborhoods/suburbs
      -compared to the NYC metro area and the various CA metro areas, the COL is not THAT bad
      -Chicago as a city is better than most others when it comes to cleanliness, stuff to do, food, experiences, etc
      -if you live in a close-in suburb, it is very possible to live in walkable areas, have a great QOL, etc, even though your house is probably fairly small
      -cheap flights out of OHare plus it's central to get anywhere you want to go
      -demographically desirable in the right areas (our area is all young/middle aged professional types, not a lot of hillbillys, etc)


      Really, my biggest gripes are:
      -****ty property taxes/relatively high housing costs (1700 sq ft 3br house worth $375k and I pay like $9k in taxes)
      -no fun roads
      -no real ocean

      The corruption and BS, yeah, it sucks, but whatever. And I grew up in CT, so I'm kinda used to the high-tax BS.
      This is all very true. I live on the northside of the city, and rent so property taxes are not a concern for me as of yet. The pluses however are really nice. I walk to my grocery store, can bike, swim, and run along the lake in the summer, and despite it not being an ocean, it feels much like one in many respects. I go to the beach all the time during the summer, and transportation options are everywhere. Because its flat, its also very easy to bike around. Driving around here does suck, and I'm the first to admit it. In the summer I try to drive as little as possible because it becomes a nightmare with people driving into the city. Also as much as the winter sucks, I can't stress enough how amazing and wonderful summer is in Chicago. Ive lived in many locations in the US, and traveled around the world. Summertime in Chicago is something incredible, and I haven't experienced anything like it in the world.

    8. Member KevinC's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 11:52 PM #107
      Quote Originally Posted by smoothsix View Post
      Cool story, Hansel. Now do it by effective percentages. We'll wait

      '19 Golf R 6MT
      '08 Z4 M Coupé

    9. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 12:04 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by Jettavr666 View Post
      This is all very true. I live on the northside of the city, and rent so ...
      Where are you? I am in Uptown. We should throw a GTG at Montrose Harbor or at the lakefront parking lots between Foster and Wilson....
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    10. Senior Member Jettavr666's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 01:01 PM #109
      Quote Originally Posted by vasillalov View Post
      Where are you? I am in Uptown. We should throw a GTG at Montrose Harbor or at the lakefront parking lots between Foster and Wilson....
      Buena Park, and Im down!

    11. Member NotFast's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 01:52 PM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by Juiced6.3 View Post
      ding ding ding

      The pension monster is eating everything up.

      Fix that issue, and this state is great IMO. But no politician is going to risk their career/life by challenging the state labor unions
      And it simply encourages people to leave IL.

    12. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      12-30-2019 03:21 PM #111
      Just went to register my wife's car (bought it in Dec so register it every December) and remembered this thread. Apparently the EV tax in 2020 is going to be $248, and our ICE vehicle registration is going from $101 to $148 (or thereabouts, maybe it's $156? I dunno). So $100 more than an ICE, which is about what I calculated it should be up thread. Still feels stupid, like they are penalizing people for doing something beneficial, but whatever.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    13. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      12-30-2019 05:14 PM #112
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Just went to register my wife's car (bought it in Dec so register it every December) and remembered this thread. Apparently the EV tax in 2020 is going to be $248, and our ICE vehicle registration is going from $101 to $148 (or thereabouts, maybe it's $156? I dunno). So $100 more than an ICE, which is about what I calculated it should be up thread. Still feels stupid, like they are penalizing people for doing something beneficial, but whatever.
      Related:

      https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/st...020/ar-BBYtlBY

      States Hike Fees for Electric Vehicle Owners in 2020

      At least eight states will enforce new or higher registration fees for electric vehicle owners starting Wednesday in an effort to offset lost revenue from gas taxes.

      These states are Alabama, California, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Ohio, Oregon and Utah, according to the Associated Press.

      The fees, which range from $50 in Kansas to $200 in Alabama and Ohio, are meant to help fund the states' infrastructure, which relies heavily on gas taxes. States have seen gas taxes fall over recent years due to cars' better gas mileage and an increase in electric vehicle usage.

      While some think that states are being reasonable with the new fees, which they claim are less expensive than what vehicle owners pay each year for fuel taxes, others like electric vehicle advocate Neda Deylami call the fees a "kind of a blanket penalty for anyone who chooses to go electric."

      California, which is responsible for nearly half of the nation's electric vehicle sales, will charge electric vehicle owners a $100 fee starting July 1.
      Of the 8 states listed, I would say that 7 of them are either Republican strongholds or have serious government funding shortfalls to explain the anti-EV taxes. The baffling one is California, which is supposed to be doing all it can to encourage EV usage, yet here they are with an extra $100 flat tax (which also means it is an anti-working class regressive tax) on electric cars. I guess file that one under California just raising taxes in general.

    14. Member NotFast's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 03:31 AM #113
      I hate "overspend and tax more" IL as much as you do, but aren't they raising that fee in order to offset the loss in gas taxes for EV's?

    15. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 11:34 AM #114
      Quote Originally Posted by NotFast View Post
      I hate "overspend and tax more" IL as much as you do, but aren't they raising that fee in order to offset the loss in gas taxes for EV's?
      Yes, but also no.

      We hear all the time about all of the "invisible costs" that ICE vehicles cost in terms of pollution, health issues, blabbedy blah blah, which EVs are supposed to help sidestep, so why do they need the piddly additional costs from EVs? Plus, the additional marginal wear from EVs on the roads is infinitesimal versus the temp changes, plows, and big trucks we have on our streets.

      The whole thing just smacks of "those jerks are getting a free ride, we need to tax them!" but if "those jerks" are helping to transition us away from fossil fuels, shouldn't they be rewarded, not shaken down for every last nickle? It's like if they enacted a soda tax, and then realized that people who don't drink soda aren't contributing, so let's tax their water! but wait, we're trying to influence people away from drinking soda, why do we turn around and tax those that are doing what we want them to?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    16. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 12:12 PM #115
      Taxation and pensions (legacy costs) are really what hurt IL, I always see the state the same way I see GM - if they could actually cut the bull****, reorganize, consolidate, and really start a new chapter in how things work it'd be a smashing success. That inevitably hurts people in the short-term, so even though the big picture would really improve you end up caught in the politics and muck of it all.

    17. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 01:14 PM #116
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      Taxation and pensions (legacy costs) are really what hurt IL, I always see the state the same way I see GM - if they could actually cut the bull****, reorganize, consolidate, and really start a new chapter in how things work it'd be a smashing success. That inevitably hurts people in the short-term, so even though the big picture would really improve you end up caught in the politics and muck of it all.
      They won't even stop the bleeding and stop hiring people with crazy pension benefits. I get that "pensions are a promise" and all that BS, but can we stop making the promise?????????
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    18. Member l88m22vette's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 01:27 PM #117
      Agreed, at least learn from the dozens of mistakes, just one, we've lost population for the 6th year and had the highest degree of emigration of any state this decade

    19. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 01:39 PM #118
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Yes, but also no.

      We hear all the time about all of the "invisible costs" that ICE vehicles cost in terms of pollution, health issues, blabbedy blah blah, which EVs are supposed to help sidestep, so why do they need the piddly additional costs from EVs? Plus, the additional marginal wear from EVs on the roads is infinitesimal versus the temp changes, plows, and big trucks we have on our streets.

      The whole thing just smacks of "those jerks are getting a free ride, we need to tax them!" but if "those jerks" are helping to transition us away from fossil fuels, shouldn't they be rewarded, not shaken down for every last nickle? It's like if they enacted a soda tax, and then realized that people who don't drink soda aren't contributing, so let's tax their water! but wait, we're trying to influence people away from drinking soda, why do we turn around and tax those that are doing what we want them to?
      That would be like using consistent logic, and that doesn’t seem to line up with anyone’s political agenda.

      Chris
      | 17 Elantra | 18 JLU Sport | 01 BMW 740 iL | 91 Dynasty | 74 SuperBeetle | 62 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

    20. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 02:00 PM #119
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      That would be like using consistent logic, and that doesn’t seem to line up with anyone’s political agenda.

      Chris
      Really it just illuminates how even taxes that are spun as trying to drive behavior are, at the end of the day, just a money grab. And when you drive the behavior down, you have to invent a bogey man so you can tax that too.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    21. 12-31-2019 02:25 PM #120
      Another benefit of being an IL resident... Beginning on 1/1/20, we get to enjoy paying taxes on vehicle trade-ins! Just lovely!!
      Last edited by poops; 12-31-2019 at 07:08 PM.

    22. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      12-31-2019 02:52 PM #121
      Quote Originally Posted by poops View Post
      Another benefit if being an IL resident... Beginning on 1/1/20, we get to enjoy paying taxes on vehicle trade-ins! Just lovely!!
      I happened to read that one. It depends on the value of the trade-in.

      https://abc7chicago.com/automotive/i...-2020/5744942/

      Before, a trade-in up to $20,000 reduced the tax payable on the purchase of the new car. Now it's going down to $10,000. You still only pay tax on the difference over the $10,000.

      I agree the nickel & diming is stupid though.

    23. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 05:21 PM #122
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      Agreed, at least learn from the dozens of mistakes, just one, we've lost population for the 6th year and had the highest degree of emigration of any state this decade
      I thought it was funny that even the Obamas refuse to move back to Illinois. As you said, Illinois is the state with the worst negative population growth (by quantity, not percentage) of any state in the union with only Puerto Rico dwarfing Illinois in terms of the number of people fleeing the region.


    24. Geriatric Member spockcat's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 05:38 PM #123
      Quote Originally Posted by AZGolf View Post
      I thought it was funny that even the Obamas refuse to move back to Illinois. As you said, Illinois is the state with the worst negative population growth (by quantity, not percentage) of any state in the union with only Puerto Rico dwarfing Illinois in terms of the number of people fleeing the region.
      I'd like to see the Puerto Rico population exit rate prior to Maria and Irma.

    25. Member
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      12-31-2019 05:43 PM #124
      1000 dollars.

      Think about that for a moment. Aside from what the money is supposed to go for, Illinois is a joke.

      (especially since where we all know where the money does go)

    26. Senior Member AZGolf's Avatar
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      12-31-2019 09:29 PM #125
      Quote Originally Posted by spockcat View Post
      I'd like to see the Puerto Rico population exit rate prior to Maria and Irma.


      It actually peaked all the way back in 2001 and the migration started after 1996 when the US government cut off the money spigot for PR. They went from a welfare baby of the US to something even worse - they aren't independent, so they don't have autonomy but they also aren't a state, thus they can't vote and effectively have no representation. The best thing at this point would be to grant PR its independence and sign a Compact of Free Association with them, such as the USA has with the Federated States of Micronesia, the Marshall Islands, and Palau. PR is simply way too big to treat it like it's Guam II.

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