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    1. 05-22-2019 11:59 AM #151
      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      I didn't realize that battery degradation on the Leafs was that big of an issue. Is it down to the air cooling?
      Leafs aren't that bad and used, they are cheap (make sure you check batt capacity on any you buy.)

      Biggest issue is temperature management on the batteries. For LiIon batteries the 2 big wear factors are:

      1) Temp extremes, especially heat and
      2) Topping off of charge which you need to do carefully. It make take 2 hours to get to 90% charge, but the last 10% may take 6 hours of trickle charge

      I'd also recommend a 110V charger, if you can schedule the time. If not and you need a quciker charge with 240V, then I get it.

      However, batteries recharge thru a chemical process and the faster you go the harder it is.

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    3. 05-22-2019 03:18 PM #152
      Quick update: I signed the buyer's order and handed over my check, so it's officially mine now.


      Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
      Is there an car that you don't eyeball?
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    4. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 03:46 PM #153
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Quick update: I signed the buyer's order and handed over my check, so it's officially mine now.




      Awesome!
      | 2017 Elantra | 2018 JLU Sport | 2003 Mercedes S55 AMG (for sale) | 2001 BMW 740 iL | 1974 SuperBeetle | 1962 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

    5. Senior Member Wimbledon's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 03:51 PM #154
      Congratulations on the Leaf! Thanks for sharing your journey to find the right EV for your needs. It was good to read you took a 500e for a spin too.

      I remember when I was shopping for my first EV I was all set to buy an i3. I drove a 500e on a local dealer lot on a whim, and I liked it much more than I thought I would, so I then focused my attention on a 500e instead of an i3.
      Last edited by Wimbledon; 05-22-2019 at 03:59 PM.
      2018 Fiat 500e eSport
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    6. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 03:58 PM #155
      Quote Originally Posted by Ark6 View Post
      Is there an car that you don't eyeball? Lol
      True...
      | 2017 Elantra | 2018 JLU Sport | 2003 Mercedes S55 AMG (for sale) | 2001 BMW 740 iL | 1974 SuperBeetle | 1962 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

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      05-22-2019 04:32 PM #156
      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      Leafs aren't that bad and used, they are cheap (make sure you check batt capacity on any you buy.)

      Biggest issue is temperature management on the batteries. For LiIon batteries the 2 big wear factors are:

      1) Temp extremes, especially heat and
      2) Topping off of charge which you need to do carefully. It make take 2 hours to get to 90% charge, but the last 10% may take 6 hours of trickle charge

      I'd also recommend a 110V charger, if you can schedule the time. If not and you need a quciker charge with 240V, then I get it.

      However, batteries recharge thru a chemical process and the faster you go the harder it is.
      We have a Bolt in the fleet, so I get the charging rate vs battery health trade offs. It’s similar to why Tesla has the warning when owners engage Ludicrous Mode too.

      I just didn’t realize that battery packs that are not liquid cooled can have such significant degradation. Makes me think more carefully about what I might buy as a second cheap EV commuter.

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      05-22-2019 04:33 PM #157
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Quick update: I signed the buyer's order and handed over my check, so it's officially mine now.
      Congrats Dempsey! Welcome to the EV fold.

    9. Member ohiodub_99.5's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 04:40 PM #158
      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      I remember when I was shopping for my first EV I was all set to buy an i3. I drove a 500e on a local dealer lot on a whim, and I liked it much more than I thought I would, so I then focused my attention on a 500e instead of an i3.
      Since you were cross shopping between those 2, what made you go with the 500e over the i3? (granted i dont know what your requirements were at the time... im currently shopping i3's is why i ask, but for my need a 500e wont fit the bill as its probably smaller then my MINI)
      /| OMGHAI |\

    10. Senior Member Wimbledon's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 04:59 PM #159
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      I remember when I was shopping for my first EV I was all set to buy an i3. I drove a 500e on a local dealer lot on a whim, and I liked it much more than I thought I would, so I then focused my attention on a 500e instead of an i3.
      Since you were cross shopping between those 2, what made you go with the 500e over the i3? (granted i dont know what your requirements were at the time... im currently shopping i3's is why i ask, but for my need a 500e wont fit the bill as its probably smaller then my MINI)
      If you need more room, i3 or eGolf or Model 3 are the way to go. For my needs, I did not need the extra space.

      Before I drove the 500e, I had a preconceived notion that the i3 must be better. But the two cars drive similarly, and I even prefer the steering on the 500e — I drove an i3 again right after just to be sure.

      I think both cars have a design I’d be happy with, but I no longer saw the value in paying more for an i3. If anything, I liked the idea that the 500e had a non-premium badge.

      Both cars use the same Samsung batteries with an 8 year warranty (although later i3 have more capacity), and both have proven reliable, so I wasn’t concerned with Fiat reliability.
      2018 Fiat 500e eSport
      2008 Audi TT Coupe 3.2 VR6 Quattro 6MT
      2006 Lotus Exige NA

    11. 05-22-2019 10:15 PM #160
      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      I think both cars have a design I’d be happy with, but I no longer saw the value in paying more for an i3. If anything, I liked the idea that the 500e had a non-premium badge.

      Both cars use the same Samsung batteries with an 8 year warranty (although later i3 have more capacity), and both have proven reliable, so I wasn’t concerned with Fiat reliability.
      Same here. I liked the BMW, but it shouted 'Electric Car', while the Fiat just shouted 'Quirky Bright Orange Fiat'! No one knows that it is an electric car - Literally no one. They just think there is some old guy going through some sort of crisis! The 30-40% price advantage of the Fiat over the BMW really helped to seal the deal.
      2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, Absolutely Red/Black, 5spd
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    12. Member ohiodub_99.5's Avatar
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      05-22-2019 10:20 PM #161
      Quote Originally Posted by Wimbledon View Post
      If you need more room, i3 or eGolf or Model 3 are the way to go. For my needs, I did not need the extra space.

      Before I drove the 500e, I had a preconceived notion that the i3 must be better. But the two cars drive similarly, and I even prefer the steering on the 500e — I drove an i3 again right after just to be sure.

      I think both cars have a design I’d be happy with, but I no longer saw the value in paying more for an i3. If anything, I liked the idea that the 500e had a non-premium badge.

      Both cars use the same Samsung batteries with an 8 year warranty (although later i3 have more capacity), and both have proven reliable, so I wasn’t concerned with Fiat reliability.
      I appreciate the insight... I’m not ready to go full BEV, but am giving hybrids/ev more thought based on my current driving habits and needs...I have a short commute (less than 8miles one way), and get about 265 miles per tank on premium out of my MINI based on my heavy right foot and basically stop and go the whole commute...., I’m looking at i3’s with the Rex which would allow me a lot more flexibility, and the fuel savings and extra space would be beneficial for future changes... we still have the Tiguan for long distance travel.

      also with that all said, i have yet to drive one, plan on testing a few this weekend... if I hate them, I’d be looking at a manual diesel wagon in VW flavor....
      Last edited by ohiodub_99.5; 05-22-2019 at 10:26 PM.
      /| OMGHAI |\

    13. 05-22-2019 10:30 PM #162
      That's the problem with the Leaf - No thermal management.

    14. 05-22-2019 10:33 PM #163
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      ...I have a short commute (less than 8miles one way), and get about 265 miles per tank on premium out of my MINI based on my heavy right foot and basically stop and go the whole commute...
      This is where BEVs really shine - the instant response and accurate speed control for use in traffic makes gas engines feel extremely laggy by comparison. Plus EVs are really efficient in low speed and stop n go situations. I'm not even 2 weeks into BEV life, and I really appreciate the power delivery much more than I expected. I have a Focus ST in my garage that has not been driven since I brought home my 500e. It might be for sale soon.
      2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, Absolutely Red/Black, 5spd
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      2016 Fiat 500e, Electric Orange Tri-Coat Pearl/Black - I live life 84 miles at a time!

    15. 05-22-2019 10:35 PM #164
      I liked the BMW, but it shouted 'Electric Car'

      Range extender is a waste - A 2 gallon tank?

      I liked the interior, but in the end got a 2nd gen Chevy Volt. Got almost 70 mile (68.2) on a charge.

    16. Member 01tj's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 08:08 AM #165
      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post
      I liked the BMW, but it shouted 'Electric Car'

      Range extender is a waste - A 2 gallon tank?

      I liked the interior, but in the end got a 2nd gen Chevy Volt. Got almost 70 mile (68.2) on a charge.
      I've been a electric car hater for years but I'm starting to warm up to them especially the I3. I think the range extender adds about 100 miles which makes it a car you could realistically take on moderate trips. I've been considering some type of electric car to drive to work but EMF's scare me a little.

    17. Member ohiodub_99.5's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:01 AM #166
      Quote Originally Posted by Steavis View Post

      Range extender is a waste - A 2 gallon tank?
      For the US market it was electronically capped at 1.9gal to stay classified as a BEV (basically the fuel range couldnt be more than the battery range) and not a hybrid... You can code it to make it recognize the european spec 2.5gal thus further extending the gasoline range.

      Theres tons of coding stuff you can do to the i3 to extend its range... like making the range extender motor kick on earlier to "hold charge" while driving (making it essentially a hybrid) instead of it only coming on when your battery is at 6% where the gas motor is supposed to act as a last ditch power source to get you to a charging port as intended....
      /| OMGHAI |\

    18. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      05-23-2019 09:14 AM #167
      Quote Originally Posted by ohiodub_99.5 View Post
      For the US market it was electronically capped at 1.9gal to stay classified as a BEV (basically the fuel range couldnt be more than the battery range) and not a hybrid... You can code it to make it recognize the european spec 2.5gal thus further extending the gasoline range.

      Theres tons of coding stuff you can do to the i3 to extend its range... like making the range extender motor kick on earlier to "hold charge" while driving (making it essentially a hybrid) instead of it only coming on when your battery is at 6% where the gas motor is supposed to act as a last ditch power source to get you to a charging port as intended....
      I love the BMW coding options but dislike the lack of support for Android Auto.

    19. 05-24-2019 10:14 PM #168
      At last, my purchase is completely official (there were a couple potential holdups that finally fell into place today). With that, here she is:

      (the I-didn't-even-wash-it potato phone edition)



      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      This is where BEVs really shine - the instant response and accurate speed control for use in traffic makes gas engines feel extremely laggy by comparison.
      OMG, yes! I had left the Suburban at work when I began driving the Leaf yesterday. Today, I had someone follow me home so I could ferry the Suburban there. From the time I had parked the 'Burb at work, I had only driven the Leaf for ~25 miles... but that was more than enough for familiarity to start setting in. Even with its 496 cubic inch V8, the Suburban felt so disconnected from me. It was alarming.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    20. 05-26-2019 11:13 PM #169
      Congratulations! I'm just over 2 weeks in myself, and I was somewhat apprehensive going into an EV. However, now all of my gas cars feel so archaic. Wait a few weeks when it starts to settle in that you are done buying gas, and your begin to forget about range - This is some good Kool Aid!
      2000 Toyota MR2 Spyder, Absolutely Red/Black, 5spd
      2005 Acura TSX, Carbon Grey Pearl/Quartz, Sportshift
      2013 Lincoln MKZ Hybrid, White Platinum Metallic Tri-Coat/Light Dune, Reserve +Technology
      2016 Fiat 500e, Electric Orange Tri-Coat Pearl/Black - I live life 84 miles at a time!

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      05-27-2019 01:59 AM #170
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Even with its 496 cubic inch V8, the Suburban felt so disconnected from me. It was alarming.
      Isn’t that funny? They are really a new way of driving, one you become very used to very quickly.

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      05-27-2019 02:56 AM #171
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      OMG, yes! I had left the Suburban at work when I began driving the Leaf yesterday. Today, I had someone follow me home so I could ferry the Suburban there. From the time I had parked the 'Burb at work, I had only driven the Leaf for ~25 miles... but that was more than enough for familiarity to start setting in. Even with its 496 cubic inch V8, the Suburban felt so disconnected from me. It was alarming.
      I rented a Passat TDI DSG last spring. When picking the car up I thought there was something wrong with it. It didn't respond to throttle input, but rather there where noises and vibrations that only made be get off the throttle again thinking "this couldn't be right".

      We quickly adapt to a higher level of comfort.

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      Quote Originally Posted by thisisdog View Post
      The internet has gotten significantly better since Russians started buying video cameras.

    23. 05-28-2019 01:17 AM #172
      Dude, what is happening to me? I'm getting hooked on this little thing.

      To date, I've done all my charging at my work. We have one L2 charging station there, and I quietly park by it and plug in as nonchalantly as I can every few days. Today was one of those days, as I arrived at work with a mere 6% charge remaining. But after three hours or so, I was back up to full capacity.

      I left work and zipped off in bliss, going on a long errand to an Ace hardware for Shelby supplies before stopping by my house. After that, I then went back past work and headed in the opposite direction to go to Mike's house for a bit. From there I would head back home for the evening.

      But, wait. While at Mike's place, I had opened the PlugShare app and was looking around at the (few) charging points between his house and mine. There was one listed at a nice new Hyatt hotel, and whoever made the entry said they discovered it when not in their EV and thus they didn't get to try using it. Furthermore, nobody has ever checked in there. Hmm... why not be the first? Besides, I haven't used a public charging station yet so I figured it was time I had that experience. About 15 minutes later, I pulled into a stall in front of four shiny new (and currently unused) Clipper Creek stations:



      These stations are not networked, so I simply grabbed one and plugged in. Immediately, the car beeped and began charging. Wow, it's really working! I kept looking around, almost expecting somebody to jump out of the shadows and accuse me of... something. I felt like I had just discovered the Fountain of Youth.

      Now all I had to do was... wait. I had planned to call my family in Ohio once I got home, so why not do that now? I got back in the car and dialed them up. Forty minutes later, we finally completed our call and I hung up. When I had pulled in, my capacity was around 45%; now it was at 82%. I decided my test had been successful. I unplugged and resumed my journey home.

      A guy could get used to this.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

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      05-28-2019 10:05 AM #173
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Dude, what is happening to me? I'm getting hooked on this little thing.

      Now all I had to do was... wait. I had planned to call my family in Ohio once I got home, so why not do that now? I got back in the car and dialed them up. Forty minutes later, we finally completed our call and I hung up. When I had pulled in, my capacity was around 45%; now it was at 82%. I decided my test had been successful. I unplugged and resumed my journey home.

      A guy could get used to this.
      Haha, this reads like someone firmly in the honeymoon period of new (to them) car ownership. "I got to wait in a hotel parking lot for 40 minutes to go another 30 miles... yay!" Honestly that sounds like an EV zealot describing what other folk consider one of the bigger downsides of owning one.

      I'm glad you like it though. I still think everyone that could possibly make one work for their daily driving route would be better served by them. Here's to many more electric miles driven, and may more minutes spent with the "privilege" of waiting for your car to charge. As an aside, one of the best things about the 1st gen cars is their relatively small battery capacity, making them easy to own for anyone that has even a 120 outlet in their house. I've charged ours almost exclusively on L1 for something like 18 months and have never been wanting for more SoC. Again, for anyone that can make it work, they really should try it. I'd own our car again over any other car that offers similar performance and utility (think 4 seats, room for some stuff, RWD, 0-60 in the mid 6s).

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      05-28-2019 11:19 AM #174
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      I had planned to call my family in Ohio once I got home, so why not do that now?
      This is the beauty of charging. You charge as you do other things that you need to do like eating, working, and sleeping. I wish more people understood that you dont have to sit there and wait.
      Slow Car Fast

    26. 05-28-2019 11:25 AM #175
      Quote Originally Posted by zmt2 View Post
      Honestly that sounds like an EV zealot describing what other folk consider one of the bigger downsides of owning one.
      Now that I re-read what I typed, I see how it could be interpreted this way--I sound like a lunatic. In my defense, I clarify three things:

      • My only motivation to do this was as a proof of concept; I was eager to try a free public charge, even if just a small partial one.
      • This was what they call a convenience charge--I was less than 8 miles from home and could have easily made it without stopping.
      • Had I not stopped, I would have gone home and sat on the couch for 40 minutes while on the phone. Time-wise, what's the difference?


      Even with this added explanation, you're all still welcome to think I'm loopy.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

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