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    1. Member
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      05-13-2019 06:23 PM #76
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      I'm going to make a huge leap of logic here and say, this is all Elon Musk's fault. Apparently every car-loving US citizen has heard about Ludicrous Mode, and they somehow associate it with all electric cars, not just the top-of-the-line six-figure Tesla. So now if an enthusiast even hears mention of an EV that can't do 0-60 in less than five seconds, the hapless car is immediately dismissed as a joyless, soul-crushing, third world penalty box. Give me a f---ing break.
      Yep, it's a big leap. I ragged on the Leaf's driving dynamics above - and it has nothing to do with the lack of Insane or Ludicrous mode. It boils down to basic chassis dynamics; the car doesn't have a lot of body control, and the steering is numb. It's a rolling sofa with a lot of torque.

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a Leaf as a budget commuter pod EV. It's practical and logical. But there are more enjoyable choices out there that aren't Teslas, and they also have the advantage of not having the Leaf's thermal management issues.

      Tom

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    3. 05-13-2019 09:09 PM #77
      Quote Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
      the car doesn't have a lot of body control, and the steering is numb. It's a rolling sofa with a lot of torque.
      So it's the 1980's Buick of electric vehicles.

      I can accept that.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    4. 05-13-2019 09:38 PM #78
      Quote Originally Posted by Unilateral Phase Detractor View Post
      Good choice. Those work at pretty much any campground should you need to fill up in the sticks.

      If I were buying an EVSE today, it would be the ClipperCreek LCS-30P: https://store.clippercreek.com/level...30p-nema-14-50

      Very compact for transporting, but gets you nearly the full charging power (5.8 kw). You can also get adapters if you need to plug it in a NEMA 14-30 in a pinch. The 24 amps is still safe on a 30 amp outlet.

      Not a bad deal at $515, but it is only a 24A unit. Instead, you could buy the JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp Electric Vehicle Charging Station EVSE with JuiceNet, 24-ft cable from Costco for $499 for a few more days, or even the Siemens VersiCharge LVL 2 Universal Electric Vehicle Charger, also from Costco for $399!

      https://www.costco.com/JuiceBox-Pro-...100397573.html



      https://www.costco.com/VersiCharge-L...100295506.html



      I am debating between these 2 right now, but leaning toward the JuiceBox, as it seems to be the Cadillac of EVSEs.
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    5. 05-13-2019 10:25 PM #79
      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      Instead, you could buy the JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp Electric Vehicle Charging Station EVSE with JuiceNet, 24-ft cable from Costco for $499 for a few more days, or even the Siemens VersiCharge LVL 2 Universal Electric Vehicle Charger, also from Costco for $399!

      I am debating between these 2 right now, but leaning toward the JuiceBox, as it seems to be the Cadillac of EVSEs.
      I only know what I read, but I have been reading a lot about EVSE systems lately. That Siemens model has had issues with a number of buyers. By comparison, the JuiceBox has a pretty good reputation for solid performance... even if it isn't seen as the "best" EVSE on the market.

      More info: https://www2.greencarreports.com/new...guide-to-evses
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    6. Member Smooremin's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 10:33 PM #80
      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      Not a bad deal at $515, but it is only a 24A unit. Instead, you could buy the JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp Electric Vehicle Charging Station EVSE with JuiceNet, 24-ft cable from Costco for $499 for a few more days

      https://www.costco.com/JuiceBox-Pro-...100397573.html




      I am debating between these 2 right now, but leaning toward the JuiceBox, as it seems to be the Cadillac of EVSEs.
      We just ordered two of these for my store with the launch of the new eTron. Seems to be the best option for the price
      Quote Originally Posted by patrikman View Post
      Asking OT for relationship advice makes about as much sense as asking TCL what car to buy.
      Quote Originally Posted by ChillOutPossum View Post
      About 5 oclock I realized I needed to go to Costco for some white people stuff.

    7. Member OOOO-A3's Avatar
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      05-13-2019 10:33 PM #81
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      I only know what I read, but I have been reading a lot about EVSE systems lately. That Siemens model has had issues with a number of buyers. By comparison, the JuiceBox has a pretty good reputation for solid performance... even if it isn't seen as the "best" EVSE on the market.
      I have the Clipper Creek LCS-25p. It is spec'd to be a safe load on a 30A breaker. Mine came with an L-6-30 (round, locking) plug, which I made an adaptor for to use with NEMA 14-30 or 14-50 outlets. The one shown above with the factory-included 14-50 plug is the same device as mine, just with them finally admitting that the 14-50 is the most useful plug and including it out of the box.

      NEMA 14-50: 50A breaker (40A continuous load), used for electric stoves and common at RV campgrounds for RV supply. This is the spec you should have installed in a garage for EV charging.

      NEMA 14-30: 30A breaker (25A continuous load), used for electric dryers (current code, not the old 3-conductor triangular connector that no longer meets code).

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      05-13-2019 11:00 PM #82
      Quote Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
      Yep, it's a big leap. I ragged on the Leaf's driving dynamics above - and it has nothing to do with the lack of Insane or Ludicrous mode. It boils down to basic chassis dynamics; the car doesn't have a lot of body control, and the steering is numb. It's a rolling sofa with a lot of torque.

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a Leaf as a budget commuter pod EV. It's practical and logical. But there are more enjoyable choices out there that aren't Teslas, and they also have the advantage of not having the Leaf's thermal management issues.

      Tom
      Yeah, it's not that the leaf "isn't a tesla," it's that no one on here would recommend one over the competition. Much in the same way we wouldn't (likely) tell someone to go for a sentra over a focus, civic, golf, etc. I wouldn't feel personally attacked for liking it.

    9. Member Dawg Dee-Lux's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 06:38 AM #83
      Quote Originally Posted by mutcth View Post
      Yep, it's a big leap. I ragged on the Leaf's driving dynamics above - and it has nothing to do with the lack of Insane or Ludicrous mode. It boils down to basic chassis dynamics; the car doesn't have a lot of body control, and the steering is numb. It's a rolling sofa with a lot of torque.

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying a Leaf as a budget commuter pod EV. It's practical and logical. But there are more enjoyable choices out there that aren't Teslas, and they also have the advantage of not having the Leaf's thermal management issues.

      Tom
      If I where to quantify it; Kia Soul comes to mind, feels like a 10x better car to be in, and 3x better to drive.

      flick
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      Quote Originally Posted by thisisdog View Post
      The internet has gotten significantly better since Russians started buying video cameras.

    10. Member turbinepowered's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:59 AM #84
      Quote Originally Posted by Dawg Dee-Lux View Post
      If I where to quantify it; Kia Soul comes to mind, feels like a 10x better car to be in, and 3x better to drive.
      I'd love to have one of these, but they weren't really sold on my side of the country, so used prices on them are pretty high and they couple I've gone to look at were pretty beat up.

      If I'm not mistaken these too had blown-air BTMS, rather than liquid cooling.
      Quote Originally Posted by zukiphile View Post
      There is an area of a normal brain that lets the owner know the object works and needs to be left alone. Not all of us have it. It is like being colorblind.

    11. Member Dawg Dee-Lux's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 08:34 AM #85
      Quote Originally Posted by turbinepowered View Post
      I'd love to have one of these, but they weren't really sold on my side of the country, so used prices on them are pretty high and they couple I've gone to look at were pretty beat up.

      If I'm not mistaken these too had blown-air BTMS, rather than liquid cooling.
      Correct, there's a fan in the spare wheel well that pulls ambient air into the pack from under the front seats. Also, for cold regions, the pack is fitted with heater mats.


      flick
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      Quote Originally Posted by thisisdog View Post
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    12. Member
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      05-14-2019 08:42 AM #86
      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      Not a bad deal at $515, but it is only a 24A unit. Instead, you could buy the JuiceBox Pro 40 Amp Electric Vehicle Charging Station EVSE with JuiceNet, 24-ft cable from Costco for $499 for a few more days, or even the Siemens VersiCharge LVL 2 Universal Electric Vehicle Charger, also from Costco for $399!

      https://www.costco.com/JuiceBox-Pro-...100397573.html

      https://www.costco.com/VersiCharge-L...100295506.html

      I am debating between these 2 right now, but leaning toward the JuiceBox, as it seems to be the Cadillac of EVSEs.
      WHen I forst saw Cstco mentioned I immediately thought adrew posted it!

      We are going on year 4 of some el cheapo GE model from Amazon. $249; pigtailed into an old outlet for a welder that was in the garage. It is an indoor outdoor unit; but I guess being square and beige (aka ugly) it doesn't sell on its prettiness.

      Quote Originally Posted by Smooremin View Post
      We just ordered two of these for my store with the launch of the new eTron. Seems to be the best option for the price
      I'm actually surprised Audi didn't come up with their own branded charger. Seems a bit shortsighted as BMW has one available. You'd think they would want to embrace all of this technology and when I buyer asks "What do I do about a charger" - just add it on to the deal.

    13. Member Blue-Civic-Hybrid's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 10:04 AM #87
      So basically you've never owned an EV and are re-hashing other car reviewers thoughts to appear insightful? Another blowhard with no real experience OWNING the type of car in question the OP was asking about...

      Cool story bro...


      Quote Originally Posted by bzcat View Post
      Joining the thread a bit late but I'm kind of searching for an used EV as well so here are my thoughts (they are not in order of any preference... just stream of consciousness posting)

      1. I agree with others... Leave the Leaf behind. Battery degradation is a major issue from what I read and also I know from experience that it has a horrible driving experience. For similar money, you can get a bunch of other EVs that have better thermal management and without the soul-crushing driving experience.

      2. Focus EV is probably the one you want if you care about driving experience a lot. It helps that Focus has great chassis and suspension tuning to begin with but with all the batteries in the trunk and under the rear seat, the weight balance actually improves and it is probably the best handling Focus available... the downside is almost non-existing trunk space.

      3. 500e is wicked fast and fun. I really want one but I need rear doors for kiddo access.

      4. Which brings me to Spark EV... same general idea as 500e - start with a tiny car and add more battery than necessary. However, the Spark interior is really a sad sad place.

      5. eGolf is great... reminds me of the Focus EV. I like how it drove and handled and it has almost regular size hatch/trunk. It's probably one of the most underrated compliance EV.

      6. Soul EV is a really unfortunate name for this car because it is soul-less. Somehow Kia managed to took all the fun out of the regular Soul and replaced with catatonic numbness. I had hoped this was going to be a spunky EV like 500e or Spark but instead, it feels very much like Leaf.

      7. BMW i3 is pretty good... if you can get used to the high seating position. Handles pretty good. The tires are NOT skinny... they are just really tall so it appears to be skinny. The upside for i3 is all the usual BMW stuff you expect. The downside for i3 is all the usual BMW stuff you expect. It's either a love it or leave it car for people.

      8. Bolt prices are still a little in flux because not many have hit the lease return circuit yet but I'm keeping an eye on it. I enjoy the drive and the purpose build integrated feel of the car.

      9. RAV4 EV (Tesla powered 3rd gen) is a really interesting car. I got to drive it because one of my friend worked at Toyota and had a lease (he paid $120 a month including insurance...) It is really fast and the SUV body style is more practical if you have family. Not that many were sold and they are still commanding a lot money (relatively speaking) even with tons of miles.

      10. Mercedes B250e is another Tesla powered compliance car. I liked the drive and overall solid build quality but it is rather expensive for what it is.

      11. Fit EV... never got to try one and I think Honda took them all back and crushed down after the lease.
      82 Caddy diesel

    14. Senior Member bzcat's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 01:40 PM #88
      Quote Originally Posted by Blue-Civic-Hybrid View Post
      So basically you've never owned an EV and are re-hashing other car reviewers thoughts to appear insightful? Another blowhard with no real experience OWNING the type of car in question the OP was asking about...

      Cool story bro...
      I'm shopping for a used EV, in a thread that is about buying a used EV. So not sure why I can't post my experiences driving them? I'm not even the first one to post something similar in this thread. Who crapped in your cereal this morning?

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      05-14-2019 07:03 PM #89
      We have had our JuiceBox EVSE for 2+ years. Not buggy at all and great app-based remote monitoring/management.

    16. Member rick8018's Avatar
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      05-14-2019 07:06 PM #90
      I will try to be succinct: Purchased a CPO 2015 LEAF SV (middle trim: cloth seats but heated front and rear!; and heated steering wheel!!!) in December of 2016 with 6400 miles on it for $13,850.. Wife drove it to work (11ish miles round trip) and we drove it around town on weekends. Charged it on 110v every night. Had no issues. Until my wife saw a blue BMW X1 one day and said, "Ooooooh, pretty!"

      On 1/2/19 (so, just over two years of ownership) I traded it in on a blue CPO BMW X1 (so many acronyms!). I was expecting an offer of $2500 or so. The manager of the local BMW dealer offered $10,000 for the LEAF!!!! Hell, yes! Done deal.

      So, we drove it for 2 years and lost $3850. I am ok with that.

      The LEAF was a fine commuter. She didn't care about body roll or acceleration times. It was always "full" in the morning and gave us no trouble. It smoked cars at red-lights and cost us about $30 a month in electricity. If she hadn't seen that gawwwwwgeous X1 we would still be driving it.

    17. 05-15-2019 01:00 AM #91
      Quote Originally Posted by Smooremin View Post
      [The JuiceBox] Seems to be the best option for the price
      At that Costco price, it really does look to be a great value.

      Quote Originally Posted by Numbersix View Post
      We have had our JuiceBox EVSE for 2+ years. Not buggy at all and great app-based remote monitoring/management.
      That's good to hear.

      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      I am debating between these 2 right now, but leaning toward the JuiceBox
      This is all your fault--I just ordered a JuiceBox 40 Pro from Costco. I don't have a membership, but my sister does... so I went to her house and we placed the order a few minutes ago. Thanks for the tip.

      Quote Originally Posted by OOOO-A3 View Post
      NEMA 14-50: 50A breaker (40A continuous load), used for electric stoves and common at RV campgrounds for RV supply. This is the spec you should have installed in a garage for EV charging.
      Yep, on my way to my sister's house I first stopped to chat with my neighbor who is an electrician. We discussed this install, albeit vaguely. He'll come over this weekend so he can see my layout and plan out how and where to install it. With those decisions made, we can figure out my shopping list for parts. I won't proceed with the outlet install until the JuiceBox arrives and is on hand for reference.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    18. 05-15-2019 02:27 PM #92
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      This is all your fault--I just ordered a JuiceBox 40 Pro from Costco. I don't have a membership, but my sister does... so I went to her house and we placed the order a few minutes ago. Thanks for the tip.
      I'm sorry?

      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Yep, on my way to my sister's house I first stopped to chat with my neighbor who is an electrician. We discussed this install, albeit vaguely. He'll come over this weekend so he can see my layout and plan out how and where to install it. With those decisions made, we can figure out my shopping list for parts. I won't proceed with the outlet install until the JuiceBox arrives and is on hand for reference.
      A quick tip - I plan on mounting mine on the wall in between my 2 garage doors so that I can charge not only in either garage stall, but also out in front of either garage door.

      Good luck on your purchase - I will be following this thread!
      Last edited by daSchtick; 05-15-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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    19. 05-15-2019 03:59 PM #93
      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      I'm sorry?


      Quote Originally Posted by daSchtick View Post
      A quick tip - I plan on mounting mine on the wall in between my 2 garage doors so that I can charge not only in either garage stall, but also out in front of either garage door.
      My 2-car garage has a single (wide) door, so I can't do it exactly like that. My current plan is to mount it to the outside wall. With the long cable, it will easily reach either bay in the garage. Further, I think I'll make a little trap door in the outer wall so I can run the charge cord outside to my concrete pad next to the garage, or even to any point of the driveway. This should let me charge the car no matter where I park it.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    20. 05-15-2019 08:15 PM #94
      Achievement unlocked: I just sold the Metro.

      Now I can really begin the hunt for my perfect used Leaf.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    21. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 09:41 PM #95
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Achievement unlocked: I just sold the Metro.

      Now I can really begin the hunt for my perfect used Leaf.
      Listen, your neighbors may not understand you, but I get it. I owned a yellow Firebird Formula at the same time as my LEAF, and whatever you buy will look awesome next to your Grand Prix.

      Chris
      | 2017 Elantra | 2018 JLU Sport | 2003 Mercedes S55 AMG (for sale) | 2001 BMW 740 iL | 1974 SuperBeetle | 1962 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

    22. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 10:07 PM #96
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      Achievement unlocked: I just sold the Metro.

      Now I can really begin the hunt for my perfect used Leaf.
      Is the Leaf comment real?
      Slow Car Fast

    23. 05-15-2019 10:15 PM #97
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Is the Leaf comment real?
      You obviously know the answer to that question since you've been following this thread from the beginning.

      BTW: your first suggestion (BMW) back on page 1 is well out of my target price range. Your runner-up suggestion (500e) is actually my runner-up contender as well; the price is right and the range is good, but it is just too tiny for my intended use. Nissan Leaf it is.
      Dempsey Bowling
      Sales Consultant at Doug Smith Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Ram/Subaru/Kia/used
      My fleet: 91 Miata (5.0L swap project), 98 Wrangler Sport, 01 Suburban 2500 8.1L, 80 Grand Prix LJ 454, 86 GLHS #75, 13 Leaf SV

    24. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      05-15-2019 10:47 PM #98
      Quote Originally Posted by TurboMinivan View Post
      You obviously know the answer to that question since you've been following this thread from the beginning.

      BTW: your first suggestion (BMW) back on page 1 is well out of my target price range. Your runner-up suggestion (500e) is actually my runner-up contender as well; the price is right and the range is good, but it is just too tiny for my intended use. Nissan Leaf it is.
      Good choice on the LEAF. They are wonderful driving cars.

      Chris
      | 2017 Elantra | 2018 JLU Sport | 2003 Mercedes S55 AMG (for sale) | 2001 BMW 740 iL | 1974 SuperBeetle | 1962 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

    25. Member alleghenyman's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 12:40 AM #99
      I'll throw in another vote for the Volt, if only because it's a fantastic used car bargain, a really well made vehicle, and used EVs in its price have limited range anyway. I bought a low mileage 2012 in December and it's holding me over until I want to spend on a Tesla or whatever else competes in a few years.

    26. Member worth_fixing's Avatar
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      05-16-2019 04:48 AM #100
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      Good choice on the LEAF. They are wonderful driving cars.

      Chris
      I drove one for a little while and I don't really feel the same. I actually felt it was really slow and numb. But I've heard a lot of positive from other Leaf drivers regarding its drivability.

      What did you like about it?
      http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-metric/286588.png
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