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    1. Geriatric Member ValveCoverGasket's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 02:02 PM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by n0rdicalex. View Post
      I want a late 80's Ski Nautique 2001. badly.

      I'm not a water skier or barefooter, but the dual exhaust from the inboard V8 brings back many good childhood lake memories. we had an early 90's Dynasty Elan which was fine for the lake cottage, but an inboard ski boat has been a dream since childhood.
      id skip any of the non-mastercraft 80s stuff due to all the wood used in the floors and stringers... but im a little biased

      i too had a crush on an inboard skiboat for years, and we eventually bought that prostar. low, fast, v8... was a fantastic boat and properly scratched that itch.
      unfortunately itd be the ideal boat for someone with a lake house who can do their beer drinking and lounging around on a dock, and be really selective when theyre actually out on the water. id equate it to owning a lowered sports car that you want to take 12 hour group road trips in.

      its tough to fit more than a couple people and gear comfortably for a day on the water with a closed bow. no tower = tripping over the gear you laid on the floor.
      the nearly flat bottom meant anything more than a 6" or so wave and you were getting wherever you were going across the lake at 10-15mph with the nose way up. but boy did it look good! and was a blast to drive.

      those tournament boats are really a one trick pony. they do what they were meant for really well but arent practical for much else.
      YMMV of course

      we ended up selling it to a dude with a lake house on lake placid, who paid to ship it cross country to NY. clean old school boats are hard to find, and if it actually fits your use, its a rad setup.


      /ski boat derail

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    3. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 02:19 PM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by dts View Post
      Thanks so much for your detailed answer -- just what I was looking for.

      To answer above,

      1. I would expect my purchase limit would be $20k, although there is a remote possibility I could exceed that. Would prefer to keep it in the $15K-20k range. Maintenance and storage is an unknown -- we have an old free-standing garage, but do not know if a boat that size would fit in it. I think I might have free to low-cost outdoor storage available to me, but that would require having someone shrink-wrap it. Based on what I've read, I doubt I would have the tools or skills to do winterization myself on an i/o, but might be able to on an outboard. Don't think my car is big enough to tow a boat this size (Volvo V60), but likely could rent a u-haul when necessary to put it in and take it out.

      2. Age range would depend mostly on my budget, but I don't want to buy something so old that it's going to require extensive and/or expensive repairs. It looks like the newest I could possibly consider would be five years old, more likely five to ten based on what I've seen online.

      JOOC, what would you consider to be upscale brands? I don't really know, but based on my research I'm assuming it would include Four Winns, Regal, Chaparral, Cobalt (among others).

      And BTW, love the pics off of Chicago. Many years ago in a previous life I lived just off the corner of Fullerton and Clark, only a few block walk to the lakefront. Always thought I would go back to Chicago...
      Glad that helped. I did a similar writeup for PlatinumGLS years ago, and now he's on his second boat - a 24 foot Cobalt.

      $20,000 buys quite a bit in the used market. I would budget about a grand a year in upkeep, assuming you bought well (things like a compression test, lots of maintenance records, etc...). Stern drive winterization on the older mid 2000s boats is actually not at all hard - I did mine myself. Once you're taught how to do it (and I can help you) you will see there's nothing to it.

      I would definitely plan on shrink wrap if you are storing outdoors, but frankly I would tell you to spend the money and store the boat inside. It makes a world of difference in long term condition. All the creampuff 20 year old boats you see? Inside storage.

      I would also not rely on that Volvo to tow, and that's because of my next recommendation: I think you need to be looking at a 20 footer, especially given you plan on using it on Lake Champlain, and it will stay in-water. As I was telling my friend earlier today, there's a big difference in comfort between 17 and 19 feet, and 20 feet seems to be the sweet spot in balance between portability/towing and all day comfort. I used to be able to do 12 hours on my Bayliner 1850 as a 20-something, but I won't do that now that I am 41. Conversely, there is such a thing as too much boat. In my mind that's around 24 feet, but keep in mind it is possible to buy too much boat - which is why boats are very much a "butts in seats" kind of purchase. You need to get out on boats - preferably a LOT of boats - before you make a decision. And frankly, if you are looking to be on large water anyway (Lake Champlain is most definitely that) then I think anything under 20 feet will be too small.

      And that could even shift you to a larger boat if you plan on putting some miles on that hull.
      Matt
      2018 Toyota Highlander SE AWD, Midnight Black Metallic/Black
      2018 Four Winns H210 / 5.3L Volvo Penta V8 300 / DPS-A Duoprop drive

    4. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 02:51 PM #53
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      My general recommendation:

      18 foot if you must, 19 or 20 foot preferred, fuel injection mandatory, cone clutch drive strongly preferred. Try to target an upscale brand - the ride quality is real, and on your lake, you will appreciate it.

      Whatever you buy, it needs to have a STACK of maintenance records.

      Any other questions, ask me.
      Also:

      - I'd also recommend something with a fiberglass cockpit so you won't have to worry about water turning the floors into a spongy money pit. You can easily tell the difference as most fiberglass cockpits will have snap-in carpet whereas the wood floors are typically covered in carpet glued in place.

      - In this size range, it shouldn't be too hard to find boats that have been stored inside, not outside and not in the water.

      - Avoid bottom paint on a freshwater trailered boat - it will negatively impact resale and many freshwater rack storage places will not allow bottom paint.

      - Don't jump on the first boat you see. It might take several months and searching through hundreds even thousands of boats online to find the one you want.

      - If you can find a fuel-injected V8 that fits all of the criteria, they are quite worth it for enjoyment and resale. When I sold the 2000 18' Four Winns w/fuel injected 5.0 Gi VP, I had a wait list of people who wanted it. Plus, I sold it for more than I paid for it after a year of use.

      - Just a FYI, boat manufactures started including integrated swim platforms in the model designations in the early to mid-2000's depending on company. So, my 2000 Four Winns H180 similar in size to a 19- or 20- foot Four Winns 5 years later.
      Quote Originally Posted by admirallaserbeam
      Rotary engines suck, dont get the miata
      2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 | 2018 RAM 1500 | 2000 Cobalt 246 w/454 Mag MPI

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    5. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 03:03 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by dts View Post
      JOOC, what would you consider to be upscale brands? I don't really know, but based on my research I'm assuming it would include Four Winns, Regal, Chaparral, Cobalt (among others).
      For this size boat (stern drive bowriders) I would rank them in tiers:

      Top Tier:

      Chris-Craft (new boats only)
      Cobalt
      Formula (smallest is 24')

      Upper (depending on boat model and year, some may move up and some may down):

      Chaparral
      Monterey
      Four Winns
      Regal
      Sea Ray
      Bryant
      Crownline

      Lower:

      Rinker

      Entry level:

      Bayliner
      Tahoe
      Quote Originally Posted by admirallaserbeam
      Rotary engines suck, dont get the miata
      2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 | 2018 RAM 1500 | 2000 Cobalt 246 w/454 Mag MPI

      RareSportBikesForSale.com | German Cars For Sale Blog

    6. Member Dravenport's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 03:16 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by J2G View Post
      Boats was probably 3 or 4 on the list of things I expected when opening this thread.
      when opening a thread called the boat lounge?
      Quote Originally Posted by westopher View Post
      If you want to spend a bunch of money for something to look at, buy a painting. I'll happily drive my car til its worth nothing.
      Quote Originally Posted by JalopnikMatt View Post
      Since my presence has been requested, Beetlejuice-style, I'll address the current controversy:
      Yes, the Prius is the greatest car ever made.

    7. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 03:36 PM #56
      Let me add a few:

      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      For this size boat (stern drive bowriders) I would rank them in tiers:

      Top Tier:

      Chris-Craft (2004ish onward, meaning the new "retro" styled boats - the old boats and especially anything with OMC in it is CRAP)
      Cobalt
      Formula (smallest is 24')

      Upper (depending on boat model and year, some may move up and some may down):

      Chaparral
      Monterey
      Four Winns
      Regal
      Bryant
      Sea Ray

      Mid tier:
      Crownline
      Larson

      Lower:

      Rinker
      Maxum (upscale Bayliner)
      Glastron



      Entry level:

      Bayliner (could be considered Lower tier the newer you go - the new VR series boats are fully composite, nearly in your price range and are a serious value)
      Tahoe
      Last edited by Maximum_Download; 04-11-2019 at 04:09 PM.
      Matt
      2018 Toyota Highlander SE AWD, Midnight Black Metallic/Black
      2018 Four Winns H210 / 5.3L Volvo Penta V8 300 / DPS-A Duoprop drive

    8. Member PlatinumGLS's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 03:44 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      Let me add a few:
      No arguments from me

      What we absolutely agree on is Tahoe being lowest of the low.
      Quote Originally Posted by admirallaserbeam
      Rotary engines suck, dont get the miata
      2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport Q4 | 2018 RAM 1500 | 2000 Cobalt 246 w/454 Mag MPI

      RareSportBikesForSale.com | German Cars For Sale Blog

    9. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 04:43 PM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by PlatinumGLS View Post
      No arguments from me

      What we absolutely agree on is Tahoe being lowest of the low.
      What I think gets lost in the mix is that for entry level boats and entry level boaters, even a Tahoe will provide years of faithful service to a family.

      I really don't think there are *bad* boats anymore. Just fair boats and the scale goes up from there.

      Anyone would agree that Bayliner is a price point boat, and I was jumping VR bowriders off 3 foot rollers down in Tennessee all day long when the boats came out...and they took it and came back for more. I was hugely impressed.

      But, having spread my wings a little out from under Bayliner, I do see the value in higher quality boats. My Four Winns rides amazingly well....and it's something I appreciate now.
      Matt
      2018 Toyota Highlander SE AWD, Midnight Black Metallic/Black
      2018 Four Winns H210 / 5.3L Volvo Penta V8 300 / DPS-A Duoprop drive

    10. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 09:11 PM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by Maximum_Download View Post
      What I think gets lost in the mix is that for entry level boats and entry level boaters, even a Tahoe will provide years of faithful service to a family.

      I really don't think there are *bad* boats anymore. Just fair boats and the scale goes up from there.

      Anyone would agree that Bayliner is a price point boat, and I was jumping VR bowriders off 3 foot rollers down in Tennessee all day long when the boats came out...and they took it and came back for more. I was hugely impressed.

      But, having spread my wings a little out from under Bayliner, I do see the value in higher quality boats. My Four Winns rides amazingly well....and it's something I appreciate now.
      I think more people get burned on buying basket cases from people who "rode them hard and put them away wet", and just didnt care for them in general. The parallel can be drawn to crap box cars, the difference is that you're out in the middle of the lake/water with no tow truck coming to get you. Case in point, when we moved in 2017, our neighbors had a beautiful 18.5 foot Lund with a 95hp Merc. Absolutely perfect boat for the area. Talking to them, "it was a nightmare, it never started and always had problems". Well the following winter explained a lot. Just a poor tarp over it with no support and out in the elements. Think they drained the fuel in the fall, or at the very least added fuel stabilizer? Not a chance...

      This crappy little runabout however? Push the boat off into the flow of the river, drop the motor into the river, and it starts first touch of the ignition. Every time. Is it maintenance heavy? Nope. (gap the plugs every once in a while and keep good fuel in it). If I run 6 gallons through it in an outing, we had a long day.

      They're recreational, but I take the maintenance as seriously as if it were a little old Cessna. Take care of it and it will return the favor.
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    11. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 09:20 PM #60
      I must have missed how you’re going to fix the holes. May I suggest rivets. Miserable job for the buckee but they are watertight.

    12. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 09:32 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I must have missed how you’re going to fix the holes. May I suggest rivets. Miserable job for the buckee but they are watertight.
      I haven't decided yet. I've got a friend up the road with the die and anvil to do a proper rivet, and I've also been watching videos on aluminum brazing rod to do the job. It's a ways away from getting done yet so I'm still doing my research.

      I assume you mean the sealed back rivets I've also seen, or were you alluding to the air hammer type?
      Last edited by FullyLoadedCarat; 04-11-2019 at 09:36 PM.
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    13. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 09:38 PM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by dts View Post
      Very nice -- looks like your slip is just north of the Echo Center, yes? Very jealous you can both work and play in Burlington! We've got a little camp right on the lake just south of Charlotte and we spend as much time there as we can each year -- usually a few weeks to as many as six.
      Thats great man. I love Lake Champlain and yes I'm near but slightly south where the Ferry Docks. I only stopped in this transient slip for 5 minutes that day. Tons of good advice and if I can add some, looking closer to you might be cheaper than shopping up here. Theres not much up here and the lack of supply seems to impact prices negatively for a buyer.
      Slow Car Fast

    14. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 09:47 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by FullyLoadedCarat View Post
      I haven't decided yet. I've got a friend up the road with the die and anvil to do a proper rivet, and I've also been watching videos on aluminum brazing rod to do the job. It's a ways away from getting done yet so I'm still doing my research.
      I'd be concerned with oil-canning, big time, with that many holes. Aluminum is real funny stuff. It doesn't like heat, at all.

      Consider Olympic rivets. They install like pop rivets but have a shaveable head. You cut off the shaft as close to the head as possible and use a shaver to give the head its final shape.


    15. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 11:03 PM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      I'd be concerned with oil-canning, big time, with that many holes. Aluminum is real funny stuff. It doesn't like heat, at all.

      Consider Olympic rivets. They install like pop rivets but have a shaveable head. You cut off the shaft as close to the head as possible and use a shaver to give the head its final shape.

      Will definitely look into those! Thanks Barry!
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    16. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-11-2019 11:09 PM #65


      Obligatory photo of the X5 doing its thing. Hauling dogs to the water. (Low water ain't always a bad thing!)

      Fun fact, the water is low enough to cross in the lowered BMW. We just got back from crossing it again.
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    17. Member barry2952's Avatar
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      04-12-2019 08:30 AM #66
      The rivet shaving tool is a bit pricey, but I can let you borrow mine. They work best when new and sharp, but mine works fine.





      This is where I get metal, tools and supplies.

      https://www.airpartsinc.com/default.asp

    18. Member Maximum_Download's Avatar
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      04-12-2019 08:32 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by FullyLoadedCarat View Post
      I think more people get burned on buying basket cases from people who "rode them hard and put them away wet", and just didnt care for them in general. The parallel can be drawn to crap box cars, the difference is that you're out in the middle of the lake/water with no tow truck coming to get you. Case in point, when we moved in 2017, our neighbors had a beautiful 18.5 foot Lund with a 95hp Merc. Absolutely perfect boat for the area. Talking to them, "it was a nightmare, it never started and always had problems". Well the following winter explained a lot. Just a poor tarp over it with no support and out in the elements. Think they drained the fuel in the fall, or at the very least added fuel stabilizer? Not a chance...

      This crappy little runabout however? Push the boat off into the flow of the river, drop the motor into the river, and it starts first touch of the ignition. Every time. Is it maintenance heavy? Nope. (gap the plugs every once in a while and keep good fuel in it). If I run 6 gallons through it in an outing, we had a long day.

      They're recreational, but I take the maintenance as seriously as if it were a little old Cessna. Take care of it and it will return the favor.
      You nailed it. A lot of it is due to poor maintenance and inexperience.

      I blame dealerships for this too. Boating requires education, and there isn't much effort to train new boaters. The ones who stick in it really love it and don't have horrible experiences. They also maintain their damn boats.
      Matt
      2018 Toyota Highlander SE AWD, Midnight Black Metallic/Black
      2018 Four Winns H210 / 5.3L Volvo Penta V8 300 / DPS-A Duoprop drive

    19. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-22-2019 04:58 PM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by barry2952 View Post
      The rivet shaving tool is a bit pricey, but I can let you borrow mine. They work best when new and sharp, but mine works fine.





      This is where I get metal, tools and supplies.

      https://www.airpartsinc.com/default.asp
      An incredibly generous offer Barry. I may take you up on the offer if I can't source something locally.

      There's been lots of progress, just not a whole lot of fun stuff. Tons of paint stripping still to do, sourcing little trim bits, etc....

      Does anyone have any thoughts on what a cheap/durable paint for the hull would be? Plan was to lay something down super thick to help cover up scratches/dings and help reseal the seams and rivets.

      I did finish painting the motor, I'll have to grab some pictures, but it no longer looks like its from the 70's and built from 3 motors.
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    20. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-22-2019 05:09 PM #69
      Before


      After
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    21. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      04-22-2019 07:06 PM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Someone needs a new avatar...
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    22. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      05-07-2019 10:30 PM #71
      Progress has been made! This time with fewer pictures!

      Its been a hectic couple of weeks and I'd been wrestling with how to get the boat off the trailer in order to flip it over to paint the underside. Basically, it came down to prying it off the trailer with a 2x4, then lifting and walking the trailer out a foot or two at a time. Once on the ground, I called a friend and we had it flipped over. I tossed a light coat of self etching primer on after a healthy rub down with some red 3M scotchbrite pads, of course none of which I have pictures of.

      HOWEVER

      I did get some money shots of the tremclad after I rolled the first coat on today after work.




      The plan is to roll the second coat on tomorrow after work, basically repeating today's process. I mixed the tremclad with mineral spirits at a 4:1 ratio in order to help it lay down better with the foam roller I was using and to help it seep into the rivets/seams.

      I've also been informed by the better 3/4's that the boat "has to" be ready for next week as we're expecting a bout of fantastic weather, so painting the sides and replacing the plexiglass windows may have to wait for a later date. I've been working on parting out the TT in the garage in hopes that I'll be able to store the boat in there this winter to make tinkering on it that much easier and minimize downtime in the spring, which has been my only time to make significant upgrades to it.
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

    23. Member FullyLoadedCarat's Avatar
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      05-17-2019 08:53 PM #72


      Well, it still floats!

      As expected, it also takes on far less water than it used to. That was the idea behind thinning the rustoleum on the first coat, to help it seep into the seams and rivets. Last year, I would have to pump the bilge several times throughout the course of the day. Now, I barely have to drain it when I get home. Its fantastic!

      Engine was not happy on the initial run as I ran some older (with fuel stabilizer) gas through it. Really didnt want to rev out on the top end and bogged a bit. Took it out for a rip after it was warm and with no extra weight in the boat and it started to liven up again. The next tank of fuel was definitely much better.

      Currently we're experiencing rain/humid weather, so the rest of the painting is going to have to wait unless I get excited and really empty the garage(not likely).

      On the lookout for an original power tilt kit as running back and forth from helm to tail to lift the engine is getting old. Especially since the little shepherd in previous photos is nearing 100lbs. Unfortunately the kit is super rare. They come across ebay from time to time, and I missed the last one, so fingers crossed!
      When you turn your car on, does it return the favor?

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      05-29-2019 02:40 PM #73
      Thinking of pulling the trigger on this one (sold by a boat mechanic shop):



      2007 Regal 1900 with 4.3 Mercruiser. 230 hours. The shop that has maintained it and stored it (indoors) since new is selling it on commission -- it's about $3-5k less than anything else I've seen comparable up there.

      https://vermont.craigslist.org/boa/d...899225039.html

    25. Member Tommietank's Avatar
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      05-29-2019 04:23 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by dts View Post
      Thinking of pulling the trigger on this one (sold by a boat mechanic shop):



      2007 Regal 1900 with 4.3 Mercruiser. 230 hours. The shop that has maintained it and stored it (indoors) since new is selling it on commission -- it's about $3-5k less than anything else I've seen comparable up there.

      https://vermont.craigslist.org/boa/d...899225039.html
      Seems like a decent deal for up here. But how many people do you plan on having out there? 19 is really small and Lake Champlain is no joke some days. How far down are you again?
      Slow Car Fast

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      05-29-2019 04:48 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by Tommietank View Post
      Seems like a decent deal for up here. But how many people do you plan on having out there? 19 is really small and Lake Champlain is no joke some days. How far down are you again?
      We're just south of Charlotte (Thompson's Point/Long Point area). We're a family of three, so I doubt we would have more than six on board at a time.

      The price is moving me on this one -- as I said earlier, it's about $5k less than anything else comparable I've seen.
      --I've seen a lovely 2006 Sea Ray 205 Sport advertised in remarkably good condition -- a 20-footer with the same 4.3 engine (bigger boat = less performance) with 100 more hours for $7k more
      --There's a very nice looking 2007 Four Winns Horizon 200 with 250 hours on a Volvo 5.0 that looks quite nice, but it has anti-foul bottom paint and is $5k more.
      --Another Regal 1900, this one a 2010 so it's newer, with a 5.0 Volvo and unknown hours for $4k more.

      On this one, the only flaw I can see is it looks like the finish could use some love -- a bit of fading on the blue -- but the rest of it looks fine.

      The last time my family owned a boat on Lake Champlain it was the mid-80s and we had a 16-foot Glastron tri-hull with an 85hp Mercury outboard. I guess I am still in the mindset that a 19-foot boat is big!

      But I'm certainly open to being persuaded otherwise....

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