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    1. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:20 PM #176
      Quote Originally Posted by masa8888 View Post
      That perfectly sums up my Wrangler ownership. I've had more memorable experiences in that truck than any other car I've owned, and at the same time it was tiring to live with day to day. Overall, I think the good outweighed the bad and am glad to have experienced it.
      Unless I spend a lot of time on the highway, which I generally don't, owning my Wrangler is pretty painless at this point. I DD'd my S2000 for 4 years, the Wrangler is infinitely easier than that, for instance.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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    3. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:24 PM #177
      Quote Originally Posted by Eye Candy White View Post
      Ditto here.

      I've owned sport compacts my entire life so far, and I thought I'd never give up on having a "sporty car," but the quality of roads and the type of driving that I do 98% of the time is really wearing on me. I'm sure Chicago is bad, but urban Cincy is like war-torn 3rd world country bad, and it's not like it's just winter/spring time. They are just flat out not keeping up with road maintenance (despite my lofty property taxes), and it makes driving something low to the ground with low profile tires pretty unbearable.

      I love my GTI, but there aren't many weeks that go by anymore where I'm not commuting and don't think "f*ck this, I should be driving a Tacoma or Wrangler or something."

      Maybe I keep the GTI as a fun car, but I've really been thinking hard about a daily that has mucho ground clearance, suspension travel and tire sidewall.

      100% this.

      For what it's worth, I consider my garage lineup as it stands right now pretty perfect; I've got my Wrangler DD, I've got the S2000 for fun, and my wife has a pseudo-"luxury" RDX that works great for road trips.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    4. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 12:25 PM #178
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      That's kind of where I'm at. My buyout is $23k at lease end and I'm undecided as to if I want to continue to wheel a stick. I'd like to find another sport with an auto and the HD44 limited slip rear option like mine has. I love the way it drives, but that auto would make it even sweeter.

      Or, if I bought it out, I'd do 4.88 gears and rubicon transfer case as that would solve all of my wheeling issues. I've got plenty of tire and height, but I lack the grunt due to the 2.75 case and 3.45 gears. Oh, and I'd like to add a bit more armor underneath.

      Chris
      Assuming you have another 1.5-2 years to go on your lease like I do, you might be better off buying a used Rubicon than buying your Jeep out and turning it into one.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    5. Member Dirty Hatch's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:20 PM #179
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      That's kind of where I'm at. My buyout is $23k at lease end and I'm undecided as to if I want to continue to wheel a stick. I'd like to find another sport with an auto and the HD44 limited slip rear option like mine has. I love the way it drives, but that auto would make it even sweeter.

      Or, if I bought it out, I'd do 4.88 gears and rubicon transfer case as that would solve all of my wheeling issues. I've got plenty of tire and height, but I lack the grunt due to the 2.75 case and 3.45 gears. Oh, and I'd like to add a bit more armor underneath.

      Chris
      How is the manual transmission in the new Jeep? Main reason I want to replace my 4runner with a Jeep is, I do not like driving auto.

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      10-09-2019 01:50 PM #180
      Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Hatch View Post
      How is the manual transmission in the new Jeep? Main reason I want to replace my 4runner with a Jeep is, I do not like driving auto.
      I have about 14K miles on my JLU Sport (lifted, 37's, manual). If I did it again I'd highly consider the 8 speed just so my wife could drive it, but the manual itself is fine, I drive it in stop and go traffic almost daily and don't really have any regrets.

      Thought about selling mine for an automatic Rubicon but I'm pretty invested in my sport, so I'll probably re-gear it and hang on to it for a few more years.

      Overall, I've loved the ownership experience and would do it again without second thought.

    7. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 01:54 PM #181
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      Assuming you have another 1.5-2 years to go on your lease like I do, you might be better off buying a used Rubicon than buying your Jeep out and turning it into one.
      See, I think dropping another $2k-$3k on the parts I listed won't be nearly as expensive as buying a used Rubi. By the time I'm done, I'll have about $39k total in my Jeep and will have deeper gearing, more armor underneath and none of the frilly stuff I don't want.

      At the same time, with the PHEV and the diesel Wrangler coming, do I really want to commit to my 3.6? That I cannot say.

      As for the transmission, I'm hearing some reports that people putting big tires on and not upgrading the gearing is leading to exploding trannies. No bueno. It shifts well enough, but can difficult to finesse whilst rock crawling.

      Chris
      | 2017 Elantra | 2018 JLU Sport | 2001 BMW 740 iL | 1974 SuperBeetle | 1962 Ford Unibody | The poster formerly known as 200HP4dr

    8. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 02:05 PM #182
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      See, I think dropping another $2k-$3k on the parts I listed won't be nearly as expensive as buying a used Rubi. By the time I'm done, I'll have about $39k total in my Jeep and will have deeper gearing, more armor underneath and none of the frilly stuff I don't want.
      You might be right, but the flip side is, if you care, what's the resale on a Rubi again in a few more years, versus your modded Sport?
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    9. Don't be me. Don't be a 'Rick' Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 02:09 PM #183
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      You might be right, but the flip side is, if you care, what's the resale on a Rubi again in a few more years, versus your modded Sport?
      Instagram - efrie004

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      10-09-2019 02:46 PM #184
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post

      As for the transmission, I'm hearing some reports that people putting big tires on and not upgrading the gearing is leading to exploding trannies. No bueno. It shifts well enough, but can difficult to finesse whilst rock crawling.

      Chris
      Are you referring to the automatics exploding? I need look into that.

      I've been trying to find someone local to re-gear my sport but they've all told me to wait for more options to be released.

    11. Member
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      10-09-2019 02:48 PM #185
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      You might be right, but the flip side is, if you care, what's the resale on a Rubi again in a few more years, versus your modded Sport?
      This question is difficult to answer as the wrangler is the one vehicle where mods might actually help resale value.

    12. Member vwpiloto's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 03:32 PM #186
      Quote Originally Posted by Kapoosh1 View Post
      This question is difficult to answer as the wrangler is the one vehicle where mods might actually help resale value.
      True, but a Rubi offers some nice features right out of the box, including front and rear lockers, and the front sway bar disconnect. And of course it has a lower (numerically higher) geared transfer case. And until recently, it had better options which were not available on the Sport, like the LED headlights. All those, it being factory and not depedent on an owner's DIY or unknown quality of the work (insert FCA quality joke here), the Rubi is I believe going to have better resale value. However, its entry price is steep, and unless one wants to spend even more on top of it to customize, you can do quite a but of customization for $10K or so.

    13. 10-09-2019 04:47 PM #187
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      Care to expand on this? My wife considered a Wrangler when she bought her Alltrack. Two and a half years in and she's not in love with the VW. She threw out the idea recently of selling the VW and E30 convertible next summer and buying a Wrangler.
      The real question is "what does she want?" While the JL is greatly improved from prior Wranglers, it is not a car. If she wants a smooth driving German engineered vehicle, she will quickly get tired of the Wrangler. Mine is a soft top with AT tires. It is noisy, the engine sounds like garbage, and it gets uncomfortably squirly above 80. Moreover, it is not a car for dash strokers, as the interior is low rent for a 90's Kia and just baffling for a vehicle that can easily approach 60K.

      What the Wrangler does have is gobs and gobs of soul. Driving across the city is great. The 2.0 with 8AT is pleasantly quick--point and shoot at around town speeds. The sight lines are great. The top goes down making a real four seat convertible and the sunrider feature allows you to open the front of the roof in the same amount of time as my old Miata. That sunrider also opens the sky not just above the driver like a regular sunroof but peels it back so the second row gets the sky too. I think the seats are comfy.

      My advice is to do what I did and go rent a JL to see if she can deal with it for a day or two. I have been "considering" a Wrangler every time I bought a car over the last 15 years. A day driving a nearly new one from the airport convinced me that I should just buy (lease) one and get it out of my system. If you have more questions, I'm happy to answer.

    14. Member Heffernan's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 05:34 PM #188
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post

      As for the transmission, I'm hearing some reports that people putting big tires on and not upgrading the gearing is leading to exploding trannies. No bueno. It shifts well enough, but can difficult to finesse whilst rock crawling.

      Chris
      I haven't heard this before... interesting. Are we talking like 33s or something like 37s and up?
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      I cannot begin to imagine the amount of gas that has gone through both the engine and those seats.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic View Post
      I've pulled 1.2g on the toilet so color me unimpressed.
      FEELTHEBERN

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      10-09-2019 05:42 PM #189
      Quote Originally Posted by Heffernan View Post
      I haven't heard this before... interesting. Are we talking like 33s ...
      Well 33's are stock on the Rubi, so I would hope not!

    16. Member Heffernan's Avatar
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      10-09-2019 05:54 PM #190
      Quote Originally Posted by Quinn1.8t View Post
      Well 33's are stock on the Rubi, so I would hope not!
      True I'm coming at this from a future Sport owner and the baby 31s that come on the Jeep. I guess/assume that 33s won't cause an issue then.

      edit - the Rubi is also geared to 4.10s I believe, whereas the Sport is a 3.45... maybe someone with a Sport might have to regear to bump up to 33s?
      Last edited by Heffernan; 10-10-2019 at 09:29 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by l88m22vette View Post
      I cannot begin to imagine the amount of gas that has gone through both the engine and those seats.
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic View Post
      I've pulled 1.2g on the toilet so color me unimpressed.
      FEELTHEBERN

    17. Member
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      10-09-2019 07:46 PM #191
      Quote Originally Posted by Samiami View Post
      The real question is "what does she want?" While the JL is greatly improved from prior Wranglers, it is not a car. If she wants a smooth driving German engineered vehicle, she will quickly get tired of the Wrangler. Mine is a soft top with AT tires. It is noisy, the engine sounds like garbage, and it gets uncomfortably squirly above 80. Moreover, it is not a car for dash strokers, as the interior is low rent for a 90's Kia and just baffling for a vehicle that can easily approach 60K.

      What the Wrangler does have is gobs and gobs of soul. Driving across the city is great. The 2.0 with 8AT is pleasantly quick--point and shoot at around town speeds. The sight lines are great. The top goes down making a real four seat convertible and the sunrider feature allows you to open the front of the roof in the same amount of time as my old Miata. That sunrider also opens the sky not just above the driver like a regular sunroof but peels it back so the second row gets the sky too. I think the seats are comfy.

      My advice is to do what I did and go rent a JL to see if she can deal with it for a day or two. I have been "considering" a Wrangler every time I bought a car over the last 15 years. A day driving a nearly new one from the airport convinced me that I should just buy (lease) one and get it out of my system. If you have more questions, I'm happy to answer.

      Thanks for the info.

      The VW is in the body shop right now for a deer hit. Tried to rent a Wrangler and they are all out.
      We'll get one at some point for a couple days.

      She's a former Wrangler owner. She bought a YJ when she graduated college and loved it. She's not a dash stroker at all. She did 10'years in a 2004 Forester before the VW. She bought the VW because it was the only manual awd wagon, and it reminded her of the GTI 16V she had before the Wrangler.

      I think she will love the Wrangler. Shes frugal though, I'm not sure she'll cough up $35-$40k for a new one.

      I'm seeing lots of really nice, super low mile JKUs in the mid to high $20ks now.

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      10-10-2019 10:01 AM #192
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      She's a former Wrangler owner. She bought a YJ when she graduated college and loved it. She's not a dash stroker at all.
      Well if she loved the YJ, she'll have noo problems with a JL. In fact she might think it's tooo fancy, with its electric windows and all.

    19. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 10:54 AM #193
      Quote Originally Posted by Samiami View Post
      The real question is "what does she want?" While the JL is greatly improved from prior Wranglers, it is not a car. If she wants a smooth driving German engineered vehicle, she will quickly get tired of the Wrangler. Mine is a soft top with AT tires. It is noisy, the engine sounds like garbage, and it gets uncomfortably squirly above 80. Moreover, it is not a car for dash strokers, as the interior is low rent for a 90's Kia and just baffling for a vehicle that can easily approach 60K.
      I agree with all except the last point. I honestly think the interior is very very nice for what it is. The seats are comfy, the infotainment is high-res, feature-packed and the interface is one of (if not the) best in the business, and everything is laid out really well. The materials are completely acceptable if not top-notch. I don't find the fit and finish to be any worse than my wife's 2G RDX, or any of the other non-luxury-branded CUVs in the price bracket. It was honestly the interior that convinced me I could do the Jeep every day; I didn't feel that way about the JK or (obviously) any of the Jeeps that came before it.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

    20. Member
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      10-10-2019 11:04 AM #194
      Quote Originally Posted by The_Real_Stack View Post
      I agree with all except the last point. I honestly think the interior is very very nice for what it is. The seats are comfy, the infotainment is high-res, feature-packed and the interface is one of (if not the) best in the business, and everything is laid out really well. The materials are completely acceptable if not top-notch. I don't find the fit and finish to be any worse than my wife's 2G RDX, or any of the other non-luxury-branded CUVs in the price bracket. It was honestly the interior that convinced me I could do the Jeep every day; I didn't feel that way about the JK or (obviously) any of the Jeeps that came before it.


      This mirrors a lot of what I've seen comparing the JK to the JL.
      For her use the extra refinement of the JL makes sense.
      Pisses me off though that the price difference between a nice, low mile JKU and a new JL is $10k.

    21. Member
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      10-10-2019 12:56 PM #195
      I'm about 5 months into my Sahara lease. 0 issues so far and I'm averaging around 22mpg in the city. This compares to about 20mpg in the 2017 Tacoma V6 I had before doing the same driving. The Wrangler interior, to me, is way nicer, seats are more comfortable and the drivetrain in the Wrangler is in a different league compared to the Tacoma. Tacoma was smoother though and more relaxing to drive.

      If I could do it again, I think I would go for either the Sport or Rubicon and I would definitely get the power top this time. It's expensive but I think for me it would be worth it since our weather changes so much here in the summer.

    22. 10-10-2019 12:59 PM #196
      I agree that the interior is perfectly acceptable and an outrageous improvement over any prior generation. I also agree that both the electronics incorporated in the center screen and the DIC are nicely configurable and excellent. However, I stand by my comment that the interior would not get a pass in anything else, and certainly nothing in the Rubicon price range. For example, I'm coming from a GM product and the tactile feel of the knobs and switches is a step down. Obviously it does not upset me that much and I really like the whole package.

      On pricing, I had previously crossed the JL off my list of potential new cars for that reason. If leasing works for you, some of the Wrangler models have unusually high residual values that make them great leases. The Sahara and Rubicon just lease OK but the Sport S has a much higher residual (low 70s). On top of that, certain special editions have even higher residuals. Both the Black and Tan and the Altitude editions currently have a 77% three residual in the southeast (you can get this info from the Edmunds forums). I also told myself that it was a hedge against FCA reliability.

      Edit: Just saw the message above and modify my statement to read "the interior would not get a pass in anything else (not wearing a Tacoma or 4Runner badge)"
      Last edited by Samiami; 10-10-2019 at 01:03 PM.

    23. Member Volkl's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 01:28 PM #197
      Quote Originally Posted by PoorHouse View Post
      This mirrors a lot of what I've seen comparing the JK to the JL.
      For her use the extra refinement of the JL makes sense.
      Pisses me off though that the price difference between a nice, low mile JKU and a new JL is $10k.
      Whitefish to Kellogg, ID isn't that far. Have you given Dave Smith a call? They're the largest Jeep Ram dealer in the world, supposedly. They deal in volume, massive volume, and seem to offer great deals. They don't publish a lot of their prices online as they want you to talk to a salesperson, but when we were shopping for a Jeep last year, they had no problem going over pricing on the phone, and emailing quotes.

      https://www.davesmith.com/jeep.htm?m...By=msrp%20asc&
      Last edited by Volkl; 10-10-2019 at 01:30 PM.

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      10-10-2019 01:33 PM #198
      not much to add except that the dealer I where I tried to buy one of their 2018 JLU sport S models a couple months ago still has multiple(!). I can't believe they're not willing to deal. I'd be in an awesome wrangler instead of my dumb german coupe. It's been on the lot 378 days (or more).

      ... I'd still totally pull the trigger if they met my price, which was basically their advertised price minus the $2300 in dealer add-ons.

    25. Senior Member Sporin's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 01:45 PM #199
      There are only 2 other vehicles that my son has pointed out on the street that he likes besides Miatas, it's Minis and Jeeps.

      My old Toyota Club buddies will give me nonstop grief, but I'd love to have a Wrangler someday. But with a lightly optioned 2-door Willys getting up to $40k... maybe a lease.




    26. Member The_Real_Stack's Avatar
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      10-10-2019 01:51 PM #200
      Quote Originally Posted by Sporin View Post
      There are only 2 other vehicles that my son has pointed out on the street that he likes besides Miatas, it's Minis and Jeeps.

      My old Toyota Club buddies will give me nonstop grief, but I'd love to have a Wrangler someday. But with a lightly optioned 2-door Willys getting up to $40k... maybe a lease.
      I went wheeling one time with a bunch of guys from a Toyota shop, it was like 7 4Runners/FJs/Tacos and me. They joked with me a little, but they were all genuinely impressed with what the Wrangler could do, and excited to crawl all over it to check it out (it was when the JL was still fairly new and not common on the streets). They were all fairly built (lifts, bigger aggressive tires, etc) and were shocked I did everything they did completely stock on minivan tires.
      Quote Originally Posted by Volkl View Post
      My wife wanted a SUV with a manual transmission. I suggested a Wrangler, she said no way, too masculine

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