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DSG DQ250 New OEM clutch or Expensive route?

7K views 6 replies 3 participants last post by  Sagginwagen 
#1 ·
Hi,

I have a TT MK2 3.2 With a GTX3576-BB installed.. Been running it for 2 seasons on E85. Build thread from lon ago: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7074206-Jim_Coupe-3-2-Turbo-build

Now I am in a situation where i have clutch slip. (im around 450hp+) Im going to rebuild my engine soon and i thought it would be wise to change the clutch.. First i was planning for a SSP stg3 clutch.. But when looking on the data on the DQ250 the gearbox is the weak point. Some upgrade to DQ500 but thats way to expensive. I feel very stupid to buy a VERY expensive clutch for a gearbox that sooner or later will break if im gonna push the HP to get something out of that SSP clutch.. I could then aim for around 700hp.. But hmm..

Another route is to rebuild my engine and aim for 500 stable HP and go for a OEM clutch (sheep route). Change all fluids and install a better oil cooler. Im doing all my software my self so optimizing the TCU is no problem of what i see now.

Is there any alternatives to the standard clutch? Take one from a diesel or something similar.. Why are these performance clutches so unreasonable expensive? I can get an OEM for 200EUR but a performance is like atleast 20 000EUR with shipping costs.

Need an alternative for my broke ass wallet :)


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww58/JimCoupeTQ/20150620_151012.jpg
 
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#2 ·
Hi,

I have a TT MK2 3.2 With a GTX3576-BB installed.. Been running it for 2 seasons on E85. Build thread from lon ago: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7074206-Jim_Coupe-3-2-Turbo-build

Now I am in a situation where i have clutch slip. (im around 450hp+) Im going to rebuild my engine soon and i thought it would be wise to change the clutch.. First i was planning for a SSP stg3 clutch.. But when looking on the data on the DQ250 the gearbox is the weak point. Some upgrade to DQ500 but thats way to expensive. I feel very stupid to buy a VERY expensive clutch for a gearbox that sooner or later will break if im gonna push the HP to get something out of that SSP clutch.. I could then aim for around 700hp.. But hmm..

Another route is to rebuild my engine and aim for 500 stable HP and go for a OEM clutch (sheep route). Change all fluids and install a better oil cooler. Im doing all my software my self so optimizing the TCU is no problem of what i see now.

Is there any alternatives to the standard clutch? Take one from a diesel or something similar.. Why are these performance clutches so unreasonable expensive? I can get an OEM for 200EUR but a performance is like atleast 20 000EUR with shipping costs.

Need an alternative for my broke ass wallet <img src="http://www.vwvortex.com/Anthony/Smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />


http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww58/JimCoupeTQ/20150620_151012.jpg
Doesn’t make sense to me either. But you will get more plates and discs with every one I’ve seen. I’ve heard of people be very disappointed in some of the upgraded clutches because the friction material is “harder” and with out increasing the clamp pressure, they slip worse than stock. I haven’t read any reviews but the APR clutches look pretty good. What ever you decide, I hope it works out great.
Awesome car btw. What kinda engine oil and dsg fluid do you run?
 
#3 ·
Im not sure.. but before i bought it the owner said its was served on Audi.. So i didnt bother to change the fluid... Been running it for 2 yrs with that fluid.. I suspect that its is poor now. What do you suggest? Im thinking about new fluid and an oil cooler for the DSG.
What do you mean by getting more plates? you mean the performance clutches or get in more plates in the OEM one?

I am thinking about my budget and i am leaning towards buying a new OEM clutch and start from scratch again.. I also paid a tuning company 350EUR for a dsg tune.. I opened the software my self in WinOLS and made a compare to my Original file.. The damn company had just raised the allowed max TQ limit? They didnt make anything to the solenoid pressure or anything. I paid all this for changing 300Nm to 500Nm something....

So i thought ok maybe i´ll start things over with a new clutch and raise clutch pressure my self in the software.. But I ran some tests last summer andeven if i rased pressure notting happened. Well well..
 
#4 ·
Doesn’t make sense to me either. But you will get more plates and discs with every one I’ve seen. I’ve heard of people be very disappointed in some of the upgraded clutches because the friction material is “harder” and with out increasing the clamp pressure, they slip worse than stock. I haven’t read any reviews but the APR clutches look pretty good. What ever you decide, I hope it works out great.
Awesome car btw. What kinda engine oil and dsg fluid do you run?
Im not sure.. but before i bought it the owner said its was served on Audi.. So i didnt bother to change the fluid... Been running it for 2 yrs with that fluid.. I suspect that its is poor now. What do you suggest? Im thinking about new fluid and an oil cooler for the DSG.
What do you mean by getting more plates? you mean the performance clutches or get in more plates in the OEM one?

I am thinking about my budget and i am leaning towards buying a new OEM clutch and start from scratch again.. I also paid a tuning company 350EUR for a dsg tune.. I opened the software my self in WinOLS and made a compare to my Original file.. The damn company had just raised the allowed max TQ limit? They didnt make anything to the solenoid pressure or anything. I paid all this for changing 300Nm to 500Nm something....

So i thought ok maybe i´ll start things over with a new clutch and raise clutch pressure my self in the software.. But I ran some tests last summer andeven if i rased pressure notting happened. Well well..
Dang! That’s too long for me, especially running it hard. I run Amsoil dct and like it a lot. 02E 409 061 C Is the part number for the larger stock style cooler, icecap (i think) makes an external one.
I was talking about aftermarket clutch having more plates and discs. I might be wrong but I don’t think you can add extra to the stock one because of how the cover is shaped.
If you increased the torque limit, how does that not increase the pressure? I’m confused now.. hahhaa.
So if i understand , your clutches are slipping because they are worn. Not because there was not enough clamp pressure. If that’s the case then the stock clutches were working fine. Just need to keep them cool and CHANGE YOUR FLUID!!! Lol
 
#7 ·
Dang! That’s too long for me, especially running it hard. I run Amsoil dct and like it a lot. 02E 409 061 C Is the part number for the larger stock style cooler, icecap (i think) makes an external one.
I was talking about aftermarket clutch having more plates and discs. I might be wrong but I don’t think you can add extra to the stock one because of how the cover is shaped.
If you increased the torque limit, how does that not increase the pressure? I’m confused now.. hahhaa.
So if i understand , your clutches are slipping because they are worn. Not because there was not enough clamp pressure. If that’s the case then the stock clutches were working fine. Just need to keep them cool and CHANGE YOUR FLUID!!! Lol

I will start to change the fluid and add my 30 row fan cooled external oilcooler. The car has 120 000km on the meter.. It might have been some hard times.. but it has onlt been turboed for 1yr.. maybe i shall change the clutch pack anyway.

quote:
If you increased the torque limit, how does that not increase the pressure? (Well to increase the TQ limit we have not been able to increase the pressure on the plates. I think the parameter for increase pressure is K1 and K2 something but havent had any success raising it that way either.. gonna take more time to investigate later when car is rebuilt :O)
Wow, that’s a really good size cooler! What’s the setup and how are you gonna mount it?
I’ve been researching and understand now( i think) that when you increase the torque limit, it just cuts engine power when it is exceeded. Nothing else. The solenoids for the pump pressure has to be increased as well as the ones to the clutches. From what I can understand, all the available pressure from the pump is not applied to the clutches but rather gradually as the demand calls for it.
There were also a couple people with 500+ hp running stock clutches on UM tune no slipping, that I read about somewhere on here.
Btw does your engine oil look wired when you change it because of the E85?
 
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