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    1. Member Bicycle019's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 01:02 AM #51
      Piling on...I'd pass if you are interested in a drivers car. I've rented several of them for work travel in Europe and have spent a lot of time driving around Germany, Belgium, and Switzerland in various trim and engine combos. Good in a straight line, not very fun overall, and felt bigger than it needed to be. I always try to get the MB or Audi product over the BMW stuff these days but somehow always seem to end up with a 5 series. Meh.
      DCI - Party time, excellent.

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    3. Member HI SPEED's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 06:21 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by CBB5 1.8T View Post
      So.... My 2 Cents:

      Ive owned an E46 325i, E90 330i, e92 335i, E60 LCI M5 (6 speed Manual) and a F10 550i (Manual Transmission.... M-sport). SOOO hard to find.

      Every BMW I have owned has got progressively worse. Bought my CPO 550i with roughly 15,000 miles - and the car was in the shop way more than even my E60 M5. Fuel Pumps, Rough Idle, Leaky Suspension Components, 2 Bad Starters (in one year), lazy door locks, I-drive with a mind of its own, hesitation at highway speeds that we chased for a year....

      NOPE.

      Steering feel is extremely numb on the 550i. Gas mileage is absolutely terrible (almost as bad as my M5 was).

      I tried to love the car and even wanted to love the F10 M5.... I had to jump ship. (Went to Aston lol)

      Hope this helps!
      Stories like this are disheartening. I am a bit late to the BMW party, and on my fourth now. E30, and e36 m3 I owned briefly. Then e91 wagon, and current e46 m3.

      It's sad to hear that this is the end of the line for good big body BMWs.

      Still plan to own a m2 one day no matter what their long term reliability turns out to be.

    4. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 03:54 PM #53
      I guess I just need to drive one of these, it's hard to imagine it being as numb as everyone says.

      Then again, this isn't the opinion of a single person, it seems to be the general consensus that the car is bland.

      Can't wait to taste it for myself.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

    5. Senior Member
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      01-20-2019 04:07 PM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      I guess I just need to drive one of these, it's hard to imagine it being as numb as everyone says.

      Then again, this isn't the opinion of a single person, it seems to be the general consensus that the car is bland.

      Can't wait to taste it for myself.

      People say the darndest thing about looks.
      MOEW: ٩(●̮̮̃•̃)۶ Zomg Zombies ٩(-̮̮̃-̃)۶ ٩(-̮̮̃•̃)۶ ٩(×̯×)۶ ¯\(°_o)/¯

    6. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 04:28 PM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Cabin Pics View Post
      I guess I just need to drive one of these, it's hard to imagine it being as numb as everyone says.

      Then again, this isn't the opinion of a single person, it seems to be the general consensus that the car is bland.

      Can't wait to taste it for myself.
      By all means drive one. That's the only way you'll know whether or not you like it. Doesn't matter what the popular opinion is when it comes to having fun with it, it matters what you personally think when you turn the wheel. I'm sure there are plenty of people who love getting nailed into their seat in a devastatingly fast car, but also like Lexus like isolation when they don't want to play.

      I was totally let down by all iterations of the car that I drove, but BMW sold the hell out of the F10, which means they're pandering to their audience to move metal, and I can't fault them for that. Goal posts move, and cars change to increase sales numbers.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

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      01-20-2019 07:57 PM #56
      Playing to the mainstream can be a dangerous game. Look at 2012+ Volkswagen, or the "GT" orthopedic hunchbacks

      Then again BMW's top seller is the X3. And even the 3 series' prime was a demonstration of BMW's strongest asset- its understanding and control of the market. I think the early F-- chassis cars marked the first time BMW followed the market rather than lead it in a broad way. Same could kind of be said of the G chassis cars to be honest.

    8. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 08:28 PM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Playing to the mainstream can be a dangerous game. Look at 2012+ Volkswagen, or the "GT" orthopedic hunchbacks
      While I've complained about the E60 and the F10, they did better than the E39, which did better than the E34, which did better than the E28. I can wax poetic all day long about my love of BMW sport sedans, but BMW is a for profit enterprise. Can't fault them for building what sells.

      OEM's don't build mass market cars to make enthusiasts happy. For people who don't care, or don't driven them all that hard, they're better. The M5 is a hell of a performance car on paper, but it didn't speak to me the way an E39 did, my SS does, so the performance increase to me is moot. Their marketing departments can still brag about the cars performance, as there is no arguing there; the top trim cars are fast as hell. And for every guy like me that buys something else instead, there are still plenty more buyers who find more appeal in their newer cars.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

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      01-20-2019 08:37 PM #58
      I'm a big advocate of for-profit entities generating profits. I just wonder if BMW went too far in chasing the mainstream with those early F chassis cars. I doubt F10 sales would have dipped much if they hadn't laid the syrup on so thickly. If anything that might have created an opening for the likes of Alfa and (less successfully) Cadillac.

      BMW's brand is strong enough that they can weather a misstep like that, but by their own admission that generation of cars took things a bit too far in pursuit of refinement and broad appeal. I don't think any mainstream buyers would be turned off by more dynamically sorted BMWs... they honestly probably wouldn't even notice.

    10. Member bc's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 09:02 PM #59
      We had an F11 for a year.


      It was:


      But that's not a bad thing.

      I would never own one out of warranty. Over $5k worth of expensive electronic components broke in the first 12 months.

    11. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 09:05 PM #60
      At the risk of putting myself on the bottom of yet another pig-pile of ridicule, I'll offer the dissenting opinion here.

      I have seat time in the F10 535i, 650ci, M5, M6 cabrio. And holy crap they are good. Any doubt about the added value of the M-cars was pretty quickly put to rest. The 650ci was OK but the M6 was one of the most fun cars I've ever driven. Sounds, feelz, appointments...that car was unforgettable.

      *******, I know you're laughing right now. But if you truly do not value my opinion there is no reason to respond.

      Having said all this, if I wanted one I'd just go to CarMax or buy CPO. No way I'm touching one with the "DIY+Indy mechanic when needed" approach.
      Past: '06 Accord V6, '95 Taurus SHO, '01 ITR, '98 Civic HX CVT

      Quote Originally Posted by jamerican1
      Dude, you know you're like the opposite of a purist, right?

    12. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 09:22 PM #61
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      At the risk of putting myself on the bottom of yet another pig-pile of ridicule, I'll offer the dissenting opinion here.

      I have seat time in the F10 535i, 650ci, M5, M6 cabrio. And holy crap they are good. Any doubt about the added value of the M-cars was pretty quickly put to rest. The 650ci was OK but the M6 was one of the most fun cars I've ever driven. Sounds, feelz, appointments...that car was unforgettable.

      *******, I know you're laughing right now. But if you truly do not value my opinion there is no reason to respond.

      Having said all this, if I wanted one I'd just go to CarMax or buy CPO. No way I'm touching one with the "DIY+Indy mechanic when needed" approach.
      No reason to laugh. You said you liked it. Nobody can change that opinion. Like I said in this thread, and the Supra thread, spec sheets and numbers mean one thing, other peoples opinions might sway you, but it'll all noise until you drive it and formulate your own opinion based on your experience.

      We are all allowed to like different things. It's why people buy BRZ's even though I don't like them, and why BMW did well with the F10 even though it's not my jam.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    13. Global Moderator MylesPH1's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 09:36 PM #62
      I’ve gone on record about these as being disappointing, especially in M5 flavor. They’re effortlessly fast, both in a straight line and in cornering, and the motor makes power everywhere, but it felt removed. Not bad, just.. distant.

      Having said that, as a used proposition, I think they warrant another look. A 500HP M-car for 52k with a CPO warranty is a HUGE steal, and a temptation worth looking into.

      Example -

      http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/1d8e00cd
      One Swedish sedan
      One ‘murrican coupe

    14. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-20-2019 09:42 PM #63
      Quote Originally Posted by MylesPH1 View Post
      I’ve gone on record about these as being disappointing, especially in M5 flavor. They’re effortlessly fast, both in a straight line and in cornering, and the motor makes power everywhere, but it felt removed. Not bad, just.. distant.

      Having said that, as a used proposition, I think they warrant another look. A 500HP M-car for 52k with a CPO warranty is a HUGE steal, and a temptation worth looking into.

      Example -

      http://atcm.co/S2PVDP/1d8e00cd
      Or go this route and get one that's even prettier:

      M6 Gran Coupe

      I still probably won't love the driving dynamics, but man, I've always been in love with how this car looks.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    15. Member Ross1013's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 01:43 AM #64
      Quote Originally Posted by MylesPH1 View Post
      I’ve gone on record about these as being disappointing, especially in M5 flavor. They’re effortlessly fast, both in a straight line and in cornering, and the motor makes power everywhere, but it felt removed. Not bad, just.. distant.
      I am definitely curious as to the frame of reference/comparison here. Distant, compared to...?
      Past: '06 Accord V6, '95 Taurus SHO, '01 ITR, '98 Civic HX CVT

      Quote Originally Posted by jamerican1
      Dude, you know you're like the opposite of a purist, right?

    16. Global Moderator MylesPH1's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 10:03 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Ross1013 View Post
      I am definitely curious as to the frame of reference/comparison here. Distant, compared to...?
      Compared to its contemporaries.

      Compared to previous M5’s.

      There was a time when the M5 was the most engaging. I’m not saying something you and I haven’t discussed before. It was a strange new world when the AMG Mercedes felt more engaging to drive than the F10 M car. I’m not even including what Cadillac and Lexus have done with their sportier offerings.

      When I got my hands on a new (then) E60 M5 it was a riot. So was the same generation M6 manual in Indianapolis Red I got to drive, that was a blast to run through the canyons.

      The three F10 M5’s I drove, from the press car before they were available here, to a used one a few months ago for sale, were incredibly rapid, but numb. This was in direct contrast to the Mercedes and Audi, which had improved with each generation where the BMW had (intentionally, I think) stepped back.
      One Swedish sedan
      One ‘murrican coupe

    17. 01-21-2019 10:22 AM #66
      I agree bmw scaled back handling prowess on purpose

      Steering on the outgoing 3 series has improved since its first MY

    18. Member
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      01-21-2019 10:52 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by ImpeccableNEW View Post
      I agree bmw scaled back handling prowess on purpose

      Steering on the outgoing 3 series has improved since its first MY
      I have a really really hard time believing that they did it on purpose. Good steering has zero drawbacks. My guess is that they couldn't hit their fuel economy targets with hydraulic steering and they half-assed the EPS to get it in production quicker.

      As for the rest of the car, yeah, I can see them softening the springs and adding squishier bushings to improve ride, but I think that was in response to improved suspension geometry (DWB up front!) that could maintain alignment better with softer bushings and springs. I'll bet an F10 pulls similar skidpad numbers to an E60 despite the added softness.

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      01-21-2019 11:00 AM #68
      I see this as the era where competition really ramped up in Germany, and the brands became more homogenized. Everyone was making isolated rocket ships with huge power.

      You no longer automatically went to Mercedes Benz if you wanted outright luxury, isolation and well-made interiors, BMW if you wanted sharp handling and good steering, or Audi for bleeding edge tech, solid understated cabins, and AWD capability. And now Porsche has an executive sedan/hatchback car. Everybody offered a bit of everything but some characteristics were diluted.

    20. Member Crispyfritter's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 11:14 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by 997 View Post
      Big.

      Heavy.

      Numb.

      Boring.

      Fast.

      That's how I would summarize the F10 (M5).
      This is exactly what I'm looking for in a cruiser. You may have just sold me.



      I mean, right now, I'm of the opinion that the E38 may just be the best car in the world for me. I'd do an F07 too.

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      01-21-2019 11:29 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by Crispyfritter View Post
      This is exactly what I'm looking for in a cruiser. You may have just sold me.



      I mean, right now, I'm of the opinion that the E38 may just be the best car in the world for me. I'd do an F07 too.

      Chris
      Why not get a Lexus then? They are all those things, and reliable

    22. Planters (fasciitis) peanuts. Dang dogg Sold Over Sticker's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 11:37 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by mrothwell View Post
      I have a really really hard time believing that they did it on purpose. Good steering has zero drawbacks. My guess is that they couldn't hit their fuel economy targets with hydraulic steering and they half-assed the EPS to get it in production quicker.

      As for the rest of the car, yeah, I can see them softening the springs and adding squishier bushings to improve ride, but I think that was in response to improved suspension geometry (DWB up front!) that could maintain alignment better with softer bushings and springs. I'll bet an F10 pulls similar skidpad numbers to an E60 despite the added softness.
      You’re correct on the non M car. The M5 runs a hydraulic assist, and it’s still no bueno.
      Driving While Awesome Podcast. Give it a listen. #TeamAkane. Donate to help a wonderful family kick cancers ass
      Quote Originally Posted by Phillie Phanatic
      SoS - please shoot a message when Brendan & His Retarded Sycophants has another gig. I’ll be there, front row.

    23. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 11:39 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by CTK View Post
      Why not get a Lexus then? They are all those things, and reliable
      Get out of here with this nonsense.

      You can't have soul and be reliable. You get one or the other!
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

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      01-21-2019 12:38 PM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by mrothwell View Post
      Good steering has zero drawbacks.
      For enthusiasts, but not necessarily for everyday-drivers. Many people don't understand why the steering is heavier, or pulls on irregularities, or requires more highway course corrections, etc, and feel it's a bad thing. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they dumbed down the steering based on customer feedback; the average BMW owner probably isn't a car-enthusiast, rather someone that wants a fun upscale vehicle.

      Of course, I also think it's a case of people not understanding what they want. The same feedback criticized on an ownership survey is probably also responsible for a "hey this is fun!" on the test drive.

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      01-21-2019 01:46 PM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      For enthusiasts, but not necessarily for everyday-drivers. Many people don't understand why the steering is heavier, or pulls on irregularities, or requires more highway course corrections, etc, and feel it's a bad thing. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that they dumbed down the steering based on customer feedback; the average BMW owner probably isn't a car-enthusiast, rather someone that wants a fun upscale vehicle.
      Good steering doesn't pull, it doesn't transmit annoying vibrations and isn't overly heavy. Drive a Tacoma or a 4Runner to see what good steering feels like in a non-sporty vehicle. Good steering filters feedback, it doesn't block it.

      Quote Originally Posted by ghost03 View Post
      Of course, I also think it's a case of people not understanding what they want. The same feedback criticized on an ownership survey is probably also responsible for a "hey this is fun!" on the test drive.
      Yeah, that could be too. Most people have no idea what they're talking about, and most people also equate insanely heavy steering with "good steering feel".

    26. How do I resize a picture? Cabin Pics's Avatar
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      01-21-2019 02:06 PM #75
      Quote Originally Posted by mrothwell View Post
      Good steering doesn't pull, it doesn't transmit annoying vibrations and isn't overly heavy. Drive a Tacoma or a 4Runner to see what good steering feels like in a non-sporty vehicle. Good steering filters feedback, it doesn't block it.



      Yeah, that could be too. Most people have no idea what they're talking about, and most people also equate insanely heavy steering with "good steering feel".
      Most people don't want sedans at all anymore, as shown by sales over the last few years.

      So in my mind, most people aren't even looking at 5 series, let alone the M5.

      I haven't driven the car, so I cannot form my own opinion on how it feels to me. However I can say that based off of many things I've read and heard from others, if it truly is as numb as everyone says then that is really a shame. If BMW wants to make beige uninspiring vehicles then that's great, make all the CUV's you want. Leave the cars alone.

      Then again, no single vehicle is going to inspire the same feelings for any two drivers. What one person loves the other may hate, and vice versa. The one thing nobody has said about the F10 is that it's a terrible car. Obviously many think the steering could be much better, but outside of that it seems like a hell of a vehicle. Fast, luxurious, comfortable, handles well... So if you drive one and you love it, f*ck what the internet and magazines say, buy what you like, not what people say you should like.
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      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      maybe its just me, but i wouldnt put anything in the circle of "unrealistic" when it comes to sex.

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