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    1. 09-10-2017 10:08 PM #1
      My 2007 B6 now has 150k and seems to be doing quite well although I am curious as to how much longer I can expect to be driving her. Timing belt, water pump, etc. was replaced at 100k miles along with HPFP, intake cam, etc. at 120k miles. I change the oil and filter every 5k with the VW specified oil. In general - I think I do a pretty good job when it comes to maintenance with the exception of missing the bad cam bucket for the HPFP last year.

      So, what I would like to ask others on this forum is how long can I realistically be expected to be driving? Should I plan for 175k no problem, or maybe 200k plus, or am I pushing the limits right now at 150k miles?

      I have heard about low mileage failures around 120-140k although I suspect that these early failures were related to not performing the required timing belt replacement. I may be entirely wrong though so feel free to correct me if you have more accurate information. My goal is to at least see another 50k+ our of this fine vehicle since I enjoy driving her each and every day. Then again, if I am driving on borrowed time I will begin to look for a replacement and keep driving the B6 until shes gives up one last time.

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      09-11-2017 03:58 AM #2
      In my opinion, consistency is not a forte of VW products. For that reason, you will find that there are a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions on the subject of how long the BPY platforms (and others) last, all based on different experiences. It is also my opinion that most people who have early failures and say they were religious about preventative maintenance are stretching the truth quite a bit, unless of course it was one of the several known failure points (e.g cam follower, tensioner, etc.). The truth is that there aren't that many people who really are great about preventative maintenance. Those that are tip the scales exponentially in their favor of vehicle longevity, and it sounds like you are good about maintenance.

      What you're considering right now is good, I would be doing the same in your shoes. I will re-iterate something I mentioned in your other thread that I think is quite important: a oil analysis by Blackstone would give you pretty decent insight into the health of your engine. I'd put it at the top of your list to do one on your next oil change and make part of your decision on whether to keep or part ways with your B6 based on the results.

      Aside from that, it looks like there are a good few things you have done already that you won't need to worry about for some time, but there are still some things that could bite you in the ass later. Here's my two-cents on your car and what you might expect. As far as the top-end you're looking pretty good. HPFP, cam, etc. all taken care of. You've been good about oil changes and oil used for those changes. Aside from stupid little stuff like PCV failures or N80 failure, etc. there isn't a whole lot that I would suspect to give you much trouble there, just some possibilities. You're probably fairly unlikely to run into fueling issues on the high pressure side, although you could wind up having to replace your LPFP and/or LPFP control module at pretty much any time given the mileage you have on them (assuming they haven't been replaced already). When was the last time the intake valves were cleaned? That may need to happen before long too although the frequency with which owners have to do them depends heavily on type of driving the vehicle sees. You could potentially run into the intake manifold flapper motor failure, although I think that is more common on some other platforms, I don't think it is particularly likely here. As far as bottom-end, the motor itself is probably good (a Blackstone sample could clear that up), the only thing down their I'd be especially worried about would be the oil pump. I wouldn't say they fail super often but they aren't exactly stellar in terms of reliability either. They're quite over-engineered and while I'm sure a lot of failures are due to subpar maintenance leading to gummed up oil pickup tubes and thus subpar oil supply, I'd still be tentatively cautious about the possibility of the pump failing at some point before 200k if only because it is outrageously expensive (the part is $1500 alone and install is a bear).
      We should also consider the trans, although I don't know anything about yours. Manual or auto? How often has gear oil been changed? Any repairs or new trans parts needed yet? Lastly, exhaust and suspension work, both of which can be pricey and you could need to replace your cat or any number of suspension items before too long at that mileage. Or perhaps not, it can vary. At least that's something you can easily ascertain yourself by inspecting the suspension components and bushings, etc. thoroughly.

      I can't remember if you have VCDS or not but if I was you I'd use it (whether you have it or need to borrow it) and I'd do a TON of data logging for just about everything you can log and get a real good idea of how your B6 is running, I'd get a Blackstone sample for the same reason, and I'd do a thorough inspection of the suspension and just about everything else that can be pretty easily observed with minimal work to get a compiled assessment of how your vehicle is doing and go from there.

      When it all comes down to it though, I guess a big factor is really how much difficulty it would be to get another vehicle. If financially it wouldn't be much trouble for you to sell your B6 and get something new or close to new then that may be prudent; if, however, you really like your vehicle and aren't jumping at the idea of having a car payment then, assuming it passes those checks above, I'd be relatively inclined to keep it. If, on the other hand, it doesn't pass some of those checks; for instance, it looks like it may need a good deal of suspension work and data logging reveals some issues, or perhaps just the Blackstone oil sample looks pretty dodgy, then in that case I'd probably let the car go.
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      09-12-2017 09:17 AM #3
      Quote Originally Posted by cszy67 View Post
      My 2007 B6 now has 150k and seems to be doing quite well although I am curious as to how much longer I can expect to be driving her. Timing belt, water pump, etc. was replaced at 100k miles along with HPFP, intake cam, etc. at 120k miles. I change the oil and filter every 5k with the VW specified oil. In general - I think I do a pretty good job when it comes to maintenance with the exception of missing the bad cam bucket for the HPFP last year.

      So, what I would like to ask others on this forum is how long can I realistically be expected to be driving? Should I plan for 175k no problem, or maybe 200k plus, or am I pushing the limits right now at 150k miles?

      I have heard about low mileage failures around 120-140k although I suspect that these early failures were related to not performing the required timing belt replacement. I may be entirely wrong though so feel free to correct me if you have more accurate information. My goal is to at least see another 50k+ our of this fine vehicle since I enjoy driving her each and every day. Then again, if I am driving on borrowed time I will begin to look for a replacement and keep driving the B6 until shes gives up one last time.


      Thy_Harrowing covered a lot of ground but I'll reiterate a few items.

      - Intake valve cleaning. Manual labour on this one, not the spray through the intake BS that doesn't work. Change the air filter while you're at it, if it hasn't been done recently.
      - When you had the cam changed did they change the chain and tensioner? If not the stock one is likely finished and should be changed.
      - Replace / regap your spark plugs. This is one of the most over looked simple things that almost everyone forgets about. The car is smoother / quieter and gets better HP and economy. I use a feeler gauge and gap it so that 0.7mm fits but 0.75mm doesn't and if you have iridium plugs then it should last you a long time because the gap only widens over time. So gapping just a hair on the tight side is the best low maint approach. Don't trust that plugs are pre-gapped properly. That's rarely the case!
      - If you want to check for engine health you can do a compression test. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you should be between 190-200psi. If you have a cylinder that is lagging then be suspect of that engines longevity.
      - If you live in a climate that gets below freezing in the winter then I would change the PCV to the latest rev. They are notorious for sticking when it's cold. Signs are rough idle and sometimes white smoke out the tailpipe while driving.
      - N80 Valve replacement is also a sore spot over time. It's easy and cheap to change.
      - I'm not sure sure rev of diverter valve you have but if you don't have ... I think it's rev D then you might want to look at it for signs of rips ... or just replace it. They aren't expensive and older revs are prone to failure.
      - DSG fluid change. If you haven't done it then DO IT and it will be the last time you'll need to if 50K is your goal.
      - Bring the car up to >90deg and check that both your rad fans come on. Engines don't last that can't stay within operating temp and these fans are prone to failure. The brush blocks tend to stick and jam.

      If the body and the interior are in good condition then I don't see why you would need to get rid of it. Put a few days of TLC and couple hundred in parts into this one and you should get your 50K more out of it.

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      09-12-2017 02:08 PM #4
      What oil you using? I know you said VW specific...coding I assume...but which brand?
      You may want to switch to a truly 100% synthetic from Europe. US can list fully synthetic with a synthetic base of just 51% TMK. I've doubled my cam follower life, from 10k to 20k miles, by switching to LiquiMoly 5w40...and it costs less than Castrol full syn recommended by VW.
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      09-12-2017 03:56 PM #5
      All good info above from Barn and ROH. I agree on the oil. If you really wanna maximize the engine longevity a true full synthetic, by European standards b/c the standard is higher there, is the way to go and I'd also put my hat in for Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40. I've run somewhere between half a dozen and a dozen oils over the last few years with oil analyses for all of them and both the analyses as well as my own personal observations favor the LM by a bit over other high quality full synthetics offered by Motul, Redline, etc.

      Specifically you want this one: https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-23.../dp/B00LIC29H6

      That link is to the full synthetic one, I think LM also makes a synthetic blend (not full synthetic) version of 5W40 so make sure you don't get them mixed up.


      Get an oil sample kit for free from Blackstone (order on their web) and when you get to 3-5K on your current oil, change it out for the LM above, and send a sample of the used oil in for analysis... it will help determine health of engine (in addition to Barn's suggestion in his post) and between the two you should have a good idea of how it is doing and whether getting 50K more out of it will be much trouble or not. Just remember there is more then the motor itself that can go wrong and cost a fortune so consider the whole picture.


      EDIT: When I read in the OP that you said the intake cam was taken care of I assumed you meant it was updated to the newest revision and I assume that means the timing chain and tensioner were replaced at that time which is why I didn't bring it up in the my first post. If they were not changed at that time (or if that was a long time ago) though, then Barn is right and your tensioner is probably shot and should be a HIGH priority.
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 09-12-2017 at 04:02 PM.
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    8. 09-14-2017 10:10 AM #6
      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      Thy_Harrowing covered a lot of ground but I'll reiterate a few items.

      - Intake valve cleaning. Manual labour on this one, not the spray through the intake BS that doesn't work. Change the air filter while you're at it, if it hasn't been done recently.
      Air filters (engine and interior) were previously changed at 102k miles and replacing both once again are part of my 150k maintenance. The intake cleaning is something I have been preparing for although I am doing my best to avoid until required. I have been running top tier detergent gasoline and performing the much loved Italian tune on a daily basis once the engine has been warmed up.

      Purchased OEM VW Charcoal Lined Cabin Filter / Fresh Air Filter and OEM VW engine Air Filter for $40 from ECS Tuning. Installed at 102k miles.

      Box for replacement cabin air filter


      Original cabin filter


      Replacement cabin filter


      Original cabin filter


      Replacement cabin filter


      Box for replacement engine air filter


      Original engine air filter


      Replacement engine air filter


      Original versus replacement engine air filter - top view


      Original versus replacement engine air filter - bottom view


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - When you had the cam changed did they change the chain and tensioner? If not the stock one is likely finished and should be changed.
      Yes, both the timing chain and tensioner were changed at that time. Based upon the reading I did here I figured as long as we were in there those might as well be taken care of also.

      Here is a partial list of the parts I had replaced when taking care of the intake cam and HPFP - I was out of town while the work was being performed so no pictures to share:

      FCP Euro
      x1 VAG-06F109217A @ $71.99 (timing chain tensioner)
      x1 oCTA-2878 @ $30.99 (cam tool)

      ECS Tuning
      Camshaft / Crankshaft Seal - Priced Each ES#: 261235, 1 @ $8.81
      Timing Cover Gasket ES#: 280367, 1 @ $6.65
      Timing Chain - For Camshaft Adjuster ES#: 280410, 1 @ $116.42
      Valve Cover Gasket ES#: 281109, 1 @ $19.00
      Intake Camshaft ES#: 2697056, 1 @ $229.18

      Ordered 17-Aug-16:

      ECS Tuning
      Exhaust Cam Sprocket Bolt ES#: 280412, 1 @ $2.67
      Pinch Clamp - Priced Each ES#: 467612, 1 @ $1.10
      Torx Bolt - Priced Each ES#: 468473, 23 @ $0.56 = $12.88
      Pinch Clamp ES#: 469750, 1 @ $1.27
      Camshaft Gear Bolt ES#: 471451, 1 @ $1.88

      Ordered 18-Aug-16:

      Deutsche Auto Parts (total $372.91)
      06F-127-025-M 2260875f451472f77bb15dfeb714b5e1 1
      N-910-896-01-Stud-Kit N-910-896-01-StudKit 1
      LM2332 LM2332 1
      06D-115-562 138793 1

      Casey VW
      Fuel Pump Cam Follower $60.42

      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - Replace / regap your spark plugs. This is one of the most over looked simple things that almost everyone forgets about. The car is smoother / quieter and gets better HP and economy. I use a feeler gauge and gap it so that 0.7mm fits but 0.75mm doesn't and if you have iridium plugs then it should last you a long time because the gap only widens over time. So gapping just a hair on the tight side is the best low maint approach. Don't trust that plugs are pre-gapped properly. That's rarely the case!
      Plugs and coils were replaced just prior to 100k since #3 was misfiring. I guess it would be a good idea to pull the plugs and check them since it has been 50k - thanks for the tip!

      Coils and plugs were purchase from ECS Tuning for $199

      Plug from cylinder #3 displays corrosion


      Tops of coils compared


      Bodies of coils compared


      New coils installed


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - If you want to check for engine health you can do a compression test. Forgive me if I'm wrong but I think you should be between 190-200psi. If you have a cylinder that is lagging then be suspect of that engines longevity.
      Good suggestion - maybe a compression test along with cylinder leak down would be in order for a more accurate view. If anyone can cite the actual pressure required please provide them. I do know that as a rough rule of thumb they should all be within 10% of each other.


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - If you live in a climate that gets below freezing in the winter then I would change the PCV to the latest rev. They are notorious for sticking when it's cold. Signs are rough idle and sometimes white smoke out the tailpipe while driving.
      I think I recall taking a look at mine and I believe it was the latest revision and was apparently installed previously although I need to check on that - thanks for the great tip!


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - N80 Valve replacement is also a sore spot over time. It's easy and cheap to change.
      Done

      Purge valve N80 changed at 135k. Purchased at ECS Tuning for $13 plus clamps $2

      Old valve - must have been changed previously - note screw clamps


      New and old valves appear to be physically identical


      New and old valves appear to be physically identical


      New valve installed with proper clamps



      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - I'm not sure sure rev of diverter valve you have but if you don't have ... I think it's rev D then you might want to look at it for signs of rips ... or just replace it. They aren't expensive and older revs are prone to failure.
      Oh, great catch - I definitely need to take care of this and probably should have done so previously. Car runs good and strong although this is a quick and easy maintenance issue - thanks!


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - DSG fluid change. If you haven't done it then DO IT and it will be the last time you'll need to if 50K is your goal.
      Performed the transmission service at 100k and am planning to repeat at 150k.

      Transmission service kit purchased from Blauparts for $135

      New filter installed


      Contamination on first magnet


      Contamination on second magnet


      Transmission pan and magnets cleaned


      Six liters of Ravenol T-IV fluid used


      Adapter and hose from Blauparts used to gravity feed replacement fluid


      Note: Engine was cooled for over an hour and was still quite warm while fluid was being replaced. Transmission pan read approximately 30 degrees Celsius when full. Engine was started and transmission was shifted into all gears for 5-10 seconds each while fluid warmed. Transmission pan temperature was checked again and read 45 degrees Celsius, excess fluid was drained and drain plug was reinstalled with engine still running. It appears approximately two liters of fluid were excess. Mileage is 98580 and it does not appear transmission was ever serviced previously.

      Contents of kit


      Instructional video
      http://video.blauparts.com/po/F2A101...change-kit.mp4


      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      - Bring the car up to >90deg and check that both your rad fans come on. Engines don't last that can't stay within operating temp and these fans are prone to failure. The brush blocks tend to stick and jam.
      Fans were replaced around two years ago and seem to be doing fine although I will check them on the next warm day.

      VDO cooling fan assembly was purchased from O'Reilly Auto Parts for $340 plus tax


      Somewhat confused as to actual manufacturer since VDO was purchased by Siemens which became Siemens VDO, then Siemens VDO was purchased by Continental AG - all German companies and tier one suppliers to industry


      Additional confusion regarding actual manufacturer since box declares unit was "assembled in Thailand." This is understandable to some degree since Continental and Siemens are international companies based out of Germany who both own dozens of manufacturing facilities worldwide. Definitely not made in Germany though. Note: Ozark Automotive is owned by O'Reilly Auto Parts as disclosed in their 2014 Annual Report


      Packing inside of box


      OEM VW assembly - back. Note direction of fan travel: large anti-clockwise, small clockwise


      O'Reilly / VDO assembly - back. Note direction of fan travel: large and small clockwise


      OEM VW assembly - markings


      O'Reilly / VDO assembly - markings


      OEM VW assembly - front


      O'Reilly / VDO assembly - front


      OEM VW small fan motor


      O'Reilly / VDO small fan motor


      OEM VW large fan motor


      O'Reilly / VDO large fan motor


      OEM VW vent flaps


      O'Reilly / VDO vent flaps


      OEM VW note small "tip clearance" between integrated shroud of fan blade and main shroud assembly. Very good for fan efficiency


      O'Reilly / VDO note larger "tip clearance" between integrated shroud of fan blade and main shroud assembly. Not as good for fan efficiency. Industry recommends tip clearance be less than fan diameter / 100


      OEM VW contamination from motors in stock unit


      O'Reilly / VDO installation instructions



      Quote Originally Posted by Barn01 View Post
      If the body and the interior are in good condition then I don't see why you would need to get rid of it. Put a few days of TLC and couple hundred in parts into this one and you should get your 50K more out of it.
      Wonderful - that is what I had been hoping to hear. My goal is 200k and if I can reach that I will be ecstatic!

    9. 09-14-2017 10:12 AM #7
      Quote Originally Posted by ROH ECHT View Post
      What oil you using? I know you said VW specific...coding I assume...but which brand?
      You may want to switch to a truly 100% synthetic from Europe. US can list fully synthetic with a synthetic base of just 51% TMK. I've doubled my cam follower life, from 10k to 20k miles, by switching to LiquiMoly 5w40...and it costs less than Castrol full syn recommended by VW.
      Thank you for confirming that I have been using the proper oil since I have owned the vehicle. Here is what I use every 5k miles:

      Oil and filter purchased at NAPA in Newport News, Virginia for $58

      New filter and oil


      New and old filters

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      09-14-2017 11:59 AM #8
      You've been diligent and meticulous in caring well for the vehicle and it should pay you back in kind, I have relatively little doubt it will get you to 200k if you continue to maintain it as you have. I know I'm beating a dead horse but I'd still recommend an oil analysis as a final confirmation (they're $28). I agree you should change the plugs if they have 50k on them. While platinum/iridium plugs can and do certainly go longer than 50k, in some cases being stretched to 100k by your average vehicle owner that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just like you "can" do a 10k OCI but choose to do 5k OCI because you know it's best practice, it is wise not to stretch plugs just because. Considering how even iridiums are cheap in the grand scheme of things I wouldn't run them more than 40k personally.

      Just hope something random like the oil pump doesn't decide to go. I think it pretty unlikely but you never know with VW. My point is you've done all you can and it should be safe to get to 200k with minimal problems but that sometimes stuff just happens anyway, you still do have to accept that.
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 09-14-2017 at 12:06 PM.
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    11. 09-19-2017 12:21 AM #9
      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      You've been diligent and meticulous in caring well for the vehicle and it should pay you back in kind, I have relatively little doubt it will get you to 200k if you continue to maintain it as you have.
      Thank you for your kind words and vote of confidence Thy - I appreciate your opinions.

      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      I know I'm beating a dead horse but I'd still recommend an oil analysis as a final confirmation (they're $28). I agree you should change the plugs if they have 50k on them. While platinum/iridium plugs can and do certainly go longer than 50k, in some cases being stretched to 100k by your average vehicle owner that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Just like you "can" do a 10k OCI but choose to do 5k OCI because you know it's best practice, it is wise not to stretch plugs just because. Considering how even iridiums are cheap in the grand scheme of things I wouldn't run them more than 40k personally.
      Yeah, I can agree with you. I am not sure if those were the original plugs I pulled out at 100k although in the grand scheme of things, another set of plugs at 150k is not at all unreasonable. Any preferences or suggestions? The previous ones were VW OEM plugs and seemed to work well.

      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      Just hope something random like the oil pump doesn't decide to go. I think it pretty unlikely but you never know with VW. My point is you've done all you can and it should be safe to get to 200k with minimal problems but that sometimes stuff just happens anyway, you still do have to accept that.
      Oh man, now you have me totally scratching my head and wondering about my oil pump and here is why:

      1) For the past year I have a vibration between 3000-3500 RPM while going through the gears. This is independent of speed, gear, etc. and starts soft, builds to it's peak maybe around 3250 RPM, and fades away. I had though it might be an engine mount, transmission issue, etc. After reading about the oil pump now I am beginning to wonder if the sound is from one of the balancing shafts?

      2) When I start the vehicle in the morning maybe three out of every five times it rattles for just a second when it starts. Once again, I always though it was the top end being a little noisy since maybe sometimes the oil drained off over night and sometimes it didn't. Of course, now I wonder if this occasional noise has to do with, you guessed it, my oil pump.

      3) When I really take hard right hand turns I can easily force the "Low oil pressure - stop the engine!" to come on. Most times this is on a 270 degree off-ramp where I am clearly pushing the vehicle hard. The other day I hit a ninety degree turn super hard - like all four tires breaking loose and the warning came on again. I thought this might have something to do with the engine being mounted transversely and maybe the oil pickup running dry during the turn. Now, it appears as of the loose fitting for the bad balance shaft is on the left (drivers) side so maybe I am losing pressure from there when turning hard to the right?

      4) As I had mentioned in a previous post - I was driving along around 35 MPH a few weeks ago and the "Low oil pressure - stop the engine!" came on without warning. I was just moving along with traffic, straight and level, low RPMs, etc. I pulled over, checked oil level, searched for info on my phone, and then drove home the last few miles watching the temperature and without further incident. No codes, no repeat, no explanation.

      I need to start a new thread for this one...

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      09-19-2017 02:06 AM #10
      Yeah, I can agree with you. I am not sure if those were the original plugs I pulled out at 100k although in the grand scheme of things, another set of plugs at 150k is not at all unreasonable. Any preferences or suggestions? The previous ones were VW OEM plugs and seemed to work well.
      OEM plugs are good but NGK iridiums are just as good and cheaper. If your car is stock, which if memory served correctly it is, then use NGK BKR8EIX. I think you know this already but always check the gap, don't assume it is correct. Stock gap is .032 and there is generally no reason to change it for stock applications.

      3) When I really take hard right hand turns I can easily force the "Low oil pressure - stop the engine!" to come on. Most times this is on a 270 degree off-ramp where I am clearly pushing the vehicle hard. The other day I hit a ninety degree turn super hard - like all four tires breaking loose and the warning came on again. I thought this might have something to do with the engine being mounted transversely and maybe the oil pickup running dry during the turn. Now, it appears as of the loose fitting for the bad balance shaft is on the left (drivers) side so maybe I am losing pressure from there when turning hard to the right?

      4) As I had mentioned in a previous post - I was driving along around 35 MPH a few weeks ago and the "Low oil pressure - stop the engine!" came on without warning. I was just moving along with traffic, straight and level, low RPMs, etc. I pulled over, checked oil level, searched for info on my phone, and then drove home the last few miles watching the temperature and without further incident. No codes, no repeat, no explanation.
      You know what's funny, I was going to ask you in your other thread you made about the oil pressure light coming on if taking hard turns made it come on too. I should have, but at least we are talking about it now. Unfortunately, the answer to you question is a "maybe" sort of answer; as in, it may not mean anything about your oil pump (as it isn't necessarily uncommon for the oil pressure light to come on in really sharp turns on these cars, I've heard of it plenty of times), but it may be related to the oil pump too. It's hard to say. What compounds the difficulty of the maybe answer is that just because there are plenty of cases where people well maintained cars have developed the "low oil pressure in tight turn" thing, who's to say their oil pumps weren't going bad. So acknowledging that it is not all that uncommon to happen doesn't necessarily give you the all clear anyway. It's not like these people come back later if their oil pump died and say, "hey guys, by the way, you know how I had my low oil pressure light coming on when I throw my car around a corner... well my oil pump died (some amount of time) later and I think that the oil pressure sharp turning thing was a early sign". The best I can say is to see if you can create a sort of controlled experiment, as controlled as possible; if you can find two sharp turns, one right and one left, that are about the same degree of turn and the same grade and hit them both at the same speed, etc. and do this several times back to back with same conditions and see if the oil pressure light pretty consistently pops on for the right turn and does not pop on at all for the left one. That's if you really want to find out and test it. Otherwise, it's really hard to ascertain what is going on with the oil pump without inspecting it physically. I mean you could use a stethoscope to maybe try to hear it but I highly doubt you'd be able to distinguish any noise the oil pump is making from the rest of the engine noise or whether it is a bad sign or not. You'd have to be some kind of savant mechanic to be able to know what you want to hear, pick it out amongst all the other noise, and know what you're hearing is right/know what it means.

      1) For the past year I have a vibration between 3000-3500 RPM while going through the gears. This is independent of speed, gear, etc. and starts soft, builds to it's peak maybe around 3250 RPM, and fades away. I had though it might be an engine mount, transmission issue, etc. After reading about the oil pump now I am beginning to wonder if the sound is from one of the balancing shafts?

      2) When I start the vehicle in the morning maybe three out of every five times it rattles for just a second when it starts. Once again, I always though it was the top end being a little noisy since maybe sometimes the oil drained off over night and sometimes it didn't. Of course, now I wonder if this occasional noise has to do with, you guessed it, my oil pump.
      It could be man. But you have to realize there are plenty of other possibilities for RPM dependent rattling/buzzing noises, it could be something as simple as a heatshield or similar. In fact, that's fairly common. I've had it before. I used to be an absolute NUT about tracking down and silencing any and all noises like that which my car made whether interior or engine bay. I would go to crazy lengths to track them down and fix them and while I did find and fix some of them, I have to say that I honestly found that I had just as much chance of them going away by themselves after failing to track them down long enough than I had chances at finding and fixing them. I have finally come to peace with that and most of the time (excluding obnoxious noises which I've only had 1 or 2 of) I will just ignore them for awhile and they will go away. This is often the case for interior noises. And was the case for a couple noises I suspect were heatshield or exhaust tunnel related. Also, literally every single noise that I did find and fix was completely harmless. That's because, like you, my vehicle is very meticulously and preventatively maintained. Like you, the only thing I have to reasonably even think about failing is the oil pump. However, unlike you, I've never had a low oil pressure light even in sharp turns and with my suspension setup I can pull some serious turns. That's totally anecdotal and not generalizable but I suppose still worth noting.

      I would say beside that little controlled experiment, the only other thing you can reasonably do if you don't want to just check the pump yourself (and the oil pickup while at it of course) is to do an oil pressure test like we discussed in the other thread. If your oil pump was seriously slacking to do its job then you'd know based on oil pressure.


      EDIT:

      Two other things. 1) Where about do you live if you don't mind me asking? If you just so happen to live near me I wouldn't mind having a listen to those noises for you, although of course the cold-start noise wouldn't work out. 2) If your oil pump were to fail there is a cheaper solution to replacing it. It's not cheap, it's just cheaper. You can actually fit the 2.0T with the much more simple, much more reliable 1.8T oil pump. It takes some custom work though, it's not a direct bolt-on. The pump itself is at most 1/3 the cost of the 2.0T pump at around $500 new if you by the kit from vendors but you could also source all the same parts and materials yourself for less still. However, aside from the custom work to install I seem to recall some other complications to overcome but don't remember the details. It's been done by some folks with good results but requires you to be pretty resourceful and handy to tackle. If you wind up not being able to then you'd probably rack up a pretty heft labor bill getting it done professionally because if I recall correctly the install job labor-wise involves a lot more than just doing the OEM pump install (still probably a decent bit less than what the OEM pump costs though). Also, even if you get it installed and overcome all the difficulties, there's still the fact that it would totally throw off engine harmonics without the balance shaft. That wouldn't be good in the long run but you didn't say you wanted to keep this car forever so it would probably be suitable to get you a little while longer without issues. Personally, if I were to lose my oil pump tomorrow on my car (which I will not sell any time remotely soon and still have plenty of plans for) I wouldn't even consider the 1.8T swap, I'd just get the proper oil pump from a part-out or junk car. If I was in your shoes though, given what you've said you want to get out of the car, if the oil pump died I'd just sell the car to someone who would fix and flip it and call it a day. If the latter would be an acceptable solution to you, if that time were to come, then I would probably take my chances with it and hope it never comes to that. It very well might never come to that.

      Anyway, you said that those noises have been going on for a year? Have they gotten worse over that year? Have you noticed anything else over that year? How many miles have you put on it over that year?
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 09-19-2017 at 02:39 AM.
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    13. Member SpeedyD's Avatar
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      09-19-2017 12:31 PM #11
      Well, my 98k 2010 CC just had the "low oil pressure" light come on out of the blue last week in a turn and now it's at the dealer with an oil pan full of metal. I'd recommend you get rid of it ASAP.
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      09-19-2017 01:01 PM #12
      Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyD View Post
      Well, my 98k 2010 CC just had the "low oil pressure" light come on out of the blue last week in a turn and now it's at the dealer with an oil pan full of metal. I'd recommend you get rid of it ASAP.
      YIKES. That is rather extreme. But yeah, even a brief low oil pressure light isn't something to be taken lightly...

      OP this is precisely why I have been so adamant about getting an oil analysis done PRONTO before we assume anything else. Keep in mind, the vote of confidence I gave your car in the last couple posts is completely contingent on those results still.
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      09-19-2017 05:36 PM #13
      It's extreme all right, and I'm uber pissed about it. I turned it off ASAP, but it's not like you can just shut it down wherever, I was on an offramp. I've owned a LOT of VW's, all bought new, over 33 years but if they leave me twisting in the wind (which they probably will) it's my last one forever. This is total bull****.
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      09-19-2017 06:39 PM #14
      Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyD View Post
      It's extreme all right, and I'm uber pissed about it. I turned it off ASAP, but it's not like you can just shut it down wherever, I was on an offramp. I've owned a LOT of VW's, all bought new, over 33 years but if they leave me twisting in the wind (which they probably will) it's my last one forever. This is total bull****.
      Yeah man I would be pissed too. I'd hope that your longstanding business with VW would count for something, and the fact that your vehicle was pretty young yet. I have no experience with VWoA or even much experience with VW dealers since I bought mine privately and take care of it myself, but based on all I've read they can be hit or miss with taking care of customers. I've heard of some cases where VWoA helped customers out who they could have technically/legally ignored and then other cases where they've left customers "twisting in the wind" as you said. I wish you the best...
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    17. Member SpeedyD's Avatar
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      09-20-2017 11:37 AM #15
      Called them yesterday - they gave me a $1000 loyalty bonus...better than nothing but yet far short of what they should have done for a lifetime customer.
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      09-20-2017 11:46 AM #16
      Quote Originally Posted by SpeedyD View Post
      Called them yesterday - they gave me a $1000 loyalty bonus...better than nothing but yet far short of what they should have done for a lifetime customer.
      Yeah that's a pretty crappy deal man. I wouldn't blame you for jumping the VW ship and going for something else. I love VWs for certain reasons and always have but I frequently turn people away from VWs for other reasons too. It all depends on what you're prepared to do and to put up with ya know?
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    19. 12-27-2018 04:12 PM #17
      Quote Originally Posted by ROH ECHT View Post
      What oil you using? I know you said VW specific...coding I assume...but which brand?
      You may want to switch to a truly 100% synthetic from Europe. US can list fully synthetic with a synthetic base of just 51% TMK. I've doubled my cam follower life, from 10k to 20k miles, by switching to LiquiMoly 5w40...and it costs less than Castrol full syn recommended by VW.
      Sorry for quoting this old post, but you are only getting 20K miles from a cam follower? What does it look like when you replace it? I've been replacing mine at almost 50K miles each and this third one looks like the previous two:



      Here is the Rev A cam lobe at ~140K miles:


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      Last edited by Sandman333; 12-27-2018 at 04:55 PM.

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      12-27-2018 08:28 PM #18
      Quote Originally Posted by Sandman333 View Post
      Sorry for quoting this old post, but you are only getting 20K miles from a cam follower? What does it look like when you replace it? I've been replacing mine at almost 50K miles each and this third one looks like the previous two:



      Here is the Rev A cam lobe at ~140K miles:


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      I'm answering for ROH ECHT because he has been busy with some things and isn't checking the forums regularly right now... ROH ECHT has a highly modified car, like me, and both he and I are pushing the HPFP/cam follower a lot harder to make quite a bit more fuel pressure, quite a bit more consistently at the high revs than on a stock application (yours is a stock application right?). We also push the cars hard in general with track events here any there. For most heavily modified/tuned cars changing the cam follower every 20K or so is advised. It isn't necessarily gonna fail that soon but the coating is starting to wear away by that point and that's when it is time to change it to be on the safe side.

      By the way, I gotta say after looking at your intake cam lobe again, that thing really is in exceptional condition for the mileage on your car. I'm honestly shocked, especially since you've had some longer OCIs and not always used top-tier oil. For a Rev A intake cam lobe that thing looks amazing. It must be that the ones that look bad are from truly terrible maintenance or that something about your use-case is better than most.
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 12-27-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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    21. 12-27-2018 09:16 PM #19
      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      I'm answering for ROH ECHT because he has been busy with some things and isn't checking the forums regularly right now... ROH ECHT has a highly modified car, like me, and both he and I are pushing the HPFP/cam follower a lot harder to make quite a bit more fuel pressure, quite a bit more consistently at the high revs than on a stock application (yours is a stock application right?). We also push the cars hard in general with track events here any there. For most heavily modified/tuned cars changing the cam follower every 20K or so is advised. It isn't necessarily gonna fail that soon but the coating is starting to wear away by that point and that's when it is time to change it to be on the safe side.

      By the way, I gotta say after looking at your intake cam lobe again, that thing really is in exceptional condition for the mileage on your car. I'm honestly shocked, especially since you've had some longer OCIs and not always used top-tier oil. For a Rev A intake cam lobe that thing looks amazing. It must be that the ones that look bad are from truly terrible maintenance or that something about your use-case is better than most.
      Thanks for the update. Other than Stage 1 APR 93 octane tuned from ~1500 miles through the current mileage, and then a Forge DV ~96K miles when I replaced the timing belt, water pump, and idlers, the engine is stock. The vast majority of the miles on this car are steady speed highway cruising, but being a 6MT I certainly haven't been afraid of running it up to the upper RPM ranges from time to time. I had the intake valves walnut blasted and injectors cleaned at ~120K miles.

      As mentioned, I did use a highly concentrated moly additive on 4 of the oil changes over its life. I also used a moly paste on the HPFP cam follower every time I installed it, whether for inspection or when replacing it. Likely that didn't stay on the surface long as the oil would wash it off, but then that moly is circulating through the engine too. Perhaps all that moly has done some good over the years and miles? I'm not absolutely positive of the current mileage and cannot check until I get the battery back in the car. I believe it's 136,xxx.

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      Last edited by Sandman333; 12-27-2018 at 09:19 PM.

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      12-27-2018 09:58 PM #20
      Quote Originally Posted by Sandman333 View Post
      Thanks for the update. Other than Stage 1 APR 93 octane tuned from ~1500 miles through the current mileage, and then a Forge DV ~96K miles when I replaced the timing belt, water pump, and idlers, the engine is stock. The vast majority of the miles on this car are steady speed highway cruising, but being a 6MT I certainly haven't been afraid of running it up to the upper RPM ranges from time to time. I had the intake valves walnut blasted and injectors cleaned at ~120K miles.

      As mentioned, I did use a highly concentrated moly additive on 4 of the oil changes over its life. I also used a moly paste on the HPFP cam follower every time I installed it, whether for inspection or when replacing it. Likely that didn't stay on the surface long as the oil would wash it off, but then that moly is circulating through the engine too. Perhaps all that moly has done some good over the years and miles? I'm not absolutely positive of the current mileage and cannot check until I get the battery back in the car. I believe it's 136,xxx.

      Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
      Right so the major difference between yours and our setups, pertaining to the cam follower wear specifically, is that ROH and I have upgraded HPFP and push them much harder than your stock HPFP. That greatly increases cam follower wear. 50K miles on a cam follower is not unheard of for stock HPFP but it's still pretty excellent and that, combined with your excellent looking cam lobe, means you're doing some things right from a wear standpoint.

      I've never been much of an advocate of additives, whether they are from reputable companies or not; I've always held the position that using a top-tier full synthetic that meets the spec is all it takes. While I still generally hold to that, I do have to wonder if the moly you have used has had a hand in how things are wearing so well for you. It's still too circumstantial to draw any conclusions but given what you've told me about the car, it's use, and your OCIs, I lean towards the moly being beneficial in that area. If I was you I'd get do a few oil analyses to get an idea how everything else is wearing. With the physical/visible evidence you have, plus an oil analysis for a more microscopic look, if the analyses turn out looking great then I'd be willing to bet your motor will last quite awhile longer if you keep on top of things
      Last edited by Thy_Harrowing; 01-06-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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      01-23-2019 12:49 PM #21
      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      I've never been much of an advocate of additives, whether they are from reputable companies or not; I've always held the position that using a top-tier full synthetic that meets the spec is all it takes. While I still generally hold to that, I do have to wonder if the moly you have used has had a hand in how things are wearing so well for you. It's still too circumstantial to draw any conclusions but given what you've told me about the car, it's use, and your OCIs, I lean towards the moly being beneficial in that area. If I was you I'd get do a few oil analyses to get an idea how everything else is wearing. With the physical/visible evidence you have, plus an oil analysis for a more microscopic look, if the analyses turn out looking great then I'd be willing to bet your motor will last quite awhile longer if you keep on top of things
      Timely maintenance trumps everything. I bought a 2007 last October with 69k on the clock. Cam follower has never been replaced and the owner took it to a shop where they honestly put on a fat markup on Castrol Edge. The following weekend I replaced the cam follower. The old one was just starting to have its protective coat wear off. I've maintained that any VW 502 oil with a reasonable maintenance interval (anywhere from 5K to 10K) will do the job. I am going to use Motul for my next change only because I've heard good things about oil consumption issues and a slightly lower noack value. Price is reasonable, putting me at a $15 premium over using Castrol Edge.

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      01-23-2019 01:29 PM #22
      Quote Originally Posted by squelchy451 View Post
      Timely maintenance trumps everything. I bought a 2007 last October with 69k on the clock. Cam follower has never been replaced and the owner took it to a shop where they honestly put on a fat markup on Castrol Edge. The following weekend I replaced the cam follower. The old one was just starting to have its protective coat wear off. I've maintained that any VW 502 oil with a reasonable maintenance interval (anywhere from 5K to 10K) will do the job. I am going to use Motul for my next change only because I've heard good things about oil consumption issues and a slightly lower noack value. Price is reasonable, putting me at a $15 premium over using Castrol Edge.
      Yes I agree that timely maintenance trumps all as long as a 502.00 spec oil is used. And I agree that 5-10k OCIs are fine; how far towards the 10k range you go depends on how much longevity you want out of the car because the additive packages of even the best full synthetic oils will begin to deteriorate in that range of mileage and the contents at 10k is much different than at 5k. 10K OCIs are fine but if you are going for upwards of 200K miles or more for longevity, then leaning more towards the 5-7K OCIs is wise.

      The only reason I was saying that the moly may have been beneficial is because I was talking to a owner whose car had somewhat untimely maintenance, more than 2x the mileage of yours, and non-502.00 spec oils used on some ocassions: yet he had the most pristine Revision A intake camshaft lobe I have ever scene and it is truly unexpected to see that on an FSI with ~160k miles. Hence I could see the possibility that the moly he used on those parts and as an oil additive was benefecial. In general, though, I am NOT a proponent of additives, just timely maintenance and good oil...

      And on that note, I would recommend against the Motul. It’s good oil, but it’s not as good as many say in my experience. I have run about a dozen of the widely considered “best” 502.00 spec oils on the market, including Motul varieties, and I’ve run them a few times each for a representative sample and generalizable results from my lab oil analyses... Motul performed more poorly than expected repeatedly in each sample, compared to other top competing oils. In fact, Mobil 1 0W-40 performed better every time. The M1 really is a great oil and even better for the price. It has 2 downsides though, it burns a bit quicker and the additives sheer quicker so it is definitely NOT and oil I would recommend for extended OCIs. I would only reccomend it for 5-6K OCIs. However, when used at such intervals, it has repeatedly performed better than most others I’ve tried. It is top middle-tier in my ranking. The top performer everytime so far is Liquimoly Leichtlauf 5W-40 (blue bottle; part #2332). It’s $35 on Amazon and at NAPA. Be careful to get the right one. Not all their formulas are created equal and some of the newer ones are actually not as good.
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      03-11-2019 02:17 PM #23
      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      Yes I agree that timely maintenance trumps all as long as a 502.00 spec oil is used. And I agree that 5-10k OCIs are fine; how far towards the 10k range you go depends on how much longevity you want out of the car because the additive packages of even the best full synthetic oils will begin to deteriorate in that range of mileage and the contents at 10k is much different than at 5k. 10K OCIs are fine but if you are going for upwards of 200K miles or more for longevity, then leaning more towards the 5-7K OCIs is wise.

      The only reason I was saying that the moly may have been beneficial is because I was talking to a owner whose car had somewhat untimely maintenance, more than 2x the mileage of yours, and non-502.00 spec oils used on some ocassions: yet he had the most pristine Revision A intake camshaft lobe I have ever scene and it is truly unexpected to see that on an FSI with ~160k miles. Hence I could see the possibility that the moly he used on those parts and as an oil additive was benefecial. In general, though, I am NOT a proponent of additives, just timely maintenance and good oil...

      And on that note, I would recommend against the Motul. It’s good oil, but it’s not as good as many say in my experience. I have run about a dozen of the widely considered “best” 502.00 spec oils on the market, including Motul varieties, and I’ve run them a few times each for a representative sample and generalizable results from my lab oil analyses... Motul performed more poorly than expected repeatedly in each sample, compared to other top competing oils. In fact, Mobil 1 0W-40 performed better every time. The M1 really is a great oil and even better for the price. It has 2 downsides though, it burns a bit quicker and the additives sheer quicker so it is definitely NOT and oil I would recommend for extended OCIs. I would only reccomend it for 5-6K OCIs. However, when used at such intervals, it has repeatedly performed better than most others I’ve tried. It is top middle-tier in my ranking. The top performer everytime so far is Liquimoly Leichtlauf 5W-40 (blue bottle; part #2332). It’s $35 on Amazon and at NAPA. Be careful to get the right one. Not all their formulas are created equal and some of the newer ones are actually not as good.
      I'll definitely be sending my oils to Blackstone for testing. Coming up on 5,000 on my Castrol, might just make it 6,000 since most of my miles are highway miles.
      I think the Liqui Moly bottles have a set of bar graphs on the bottles, measuring wear resistance, low-temp viscosity, fuel consumption, etc. From what I believe the indigo bottle comes up top on all measures except for fuel consumption. I'll definitely give that a go after I make use of the Motul I already bought.

    26. 03-20-2019 05:48 AM #24
      Quote Originally Posted by Thy_Harrowing View Post
      Right so the major difference between yours and our setups, pertaining to the cam follower wear specifically, is that ROH and I have upgraded HPFP and push them much harder than your stock HPFP. That greatly increases cam follower wear. 50K miles on a cam follower is not unheard of for stock HPFP but it's still pretty excellent and that, combined with your excellent looking cam lobe, means you're doing some things right from a wear standpoint.

      I've never been much of an advocate of additives, whether they are from reputable companies or not; I've always held the position that using a top-tier full synthetic that meets the spec is all it takes. While I still generally hold to that, I do have to wonder if the moly you have used has had a hand in how things are wearing so well for you. It's still too circumstantial to draw any conclusions but given what you've told me about the car, it's use, and your OCIs, I lean towards the moly being beneficial in that area. If I was you I'd get do a few oil analyses to get an idea how everything else is wearing. With the physical/visible evidence you have, plus an oil analysis for a more microscopic look, if the analyses turn out looking great then I'd be willing to bet your motor will last quite awhile longer if you keep on top of things
      So just to update you, after getting everything back together and the battery installed, the mileage was a tick over 139,1xx when those pictures were taken. Car runs like brand new now with no CELs.

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      2008 T-red GTI manual
      11-08-2019 06:23 PM #25
      interesting read! I am in the same boat, with an 08 GTI with 125k mi, still stock. Did cam follower myself, plugs, coil packs around 80-90k. I had misfires and rough idle that was due to carbon deposits and got it cleaned up at 90k. I've also had the "low oil pressure" warning come on this particular almost 360deg on-ramp i hit hard, if the oil is even a half quart low - scary! What drives the oil pump - gears or chain driven? How is the LiquiMoly NewGen - I got it to check leaks (i burn/lose quite a bit of oil currently, it seems when i go up a mild long uphill grade i can smell a sweet oil smell - any ideas?). It was strange, some reviews on ECS said it made their engine sound better - I though that was a dubious claim but after the first change my car did seem to sound angrier and free-er. Perhaps a bad thing?
      Past cars - 94 T-red Jetta GLX VR6 W.Ed. manual, 05 T-red GTI 1.8T manual
      Family - 07 Jetta 2.5S manual, 07 Passat 2.0T Manual, 09 Tiguan S

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