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    1. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      06-29-2019 09:35 AM #26
      Well, here we are again. 285,210: 1700 miles this time.

      As usual I don't have as much time as I would like to spend on this, but I feel that I really need to try something different, even if it is another stop gap measure.

      Tentative plan: Use some torch heat when shaping the line. Attempt to anneal by cooling slowly. Tool dip the upper bend where it always fails. Live tune the motor to see if I can reduce vibration. Probably more fuel. As the NONSMKR it was (is) very lean. Then timing if necessary.

      Order lifetime supply of injector shields.

      Then drive to Montana next week.

      Order Pop tester. Test and possibly swap injectors.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    3. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      06-30-2019 09:26 AM #27
      Cleaned one of my last #2 lines and shaped a #3 line to be a #2.

      Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    4. 06-30-2019 09:59 AM #28
      So a quick recap

      The pump is properly secured to the engine.
      The injector lines are properly secured with the factory mounts/brackets.
      You have not swapped injectors
      The pump has not been tested.

      Is that about right?

      There was a comment about injector line length and there was some 'professional' that talked about the lines need to be the same. There are a boat load of Mercedes diesel engines with different length lines that run pretty darn well. I have never measured them but I would say some are twice the length from the shortest to the longest. I say hogwash on that theory. It does not make any difference, at least in the real world.

    5. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      06-30-2019 03:04 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
      So a quick recap

      The pump is properly secured to the engine.
      The injector lines are properly secured with the factory mounts/brackets.
      You have not swapped injectors
      The pump has not been tested.

      Is that about right?

      There was a comment about injector line length and there was some 'professional' that talked about the lines need to be the same. There are a boat load of Mercedes diesel engines with different length lines that run pretty darn well. I have never measured them but I would say some are twice the length from the shortest to the longest. I say hogwash on that theory. It does not make any difference, at least in the real world.
      That's about right.

      When I swap injectors, I want to test the spray pattern while they are out. Still have not ordered a tester ($100), and now it's too late to get one before driving 800 miles in two days, starting Sunday the 7th.

      I think I can get a parts order before I go. Gonna get some more extra #2 lines at $17 a piece. That's about a penny a mile in #2 lines at the current rate. Also finally found a good deal on heat shields (Febi brand), gonna stock up on those and bring some extra injectors to test. I even have some new injector nozzles, I'll probably bring those as well.

      Now I have a 2nd running 1.9L diesel engine for comparrison (With AAZ (1Y) lines, proper NA pump, but short 1.6L injectors. All lines are original. The binders are plastic and don't look like they do much at all. The big difference is that it smokes a bit until it's warm and it doesn't vibrate near as much as my truck.

      I'm considering replacing my front motor mount, which is the only one that looks at all questionable and easiest to replace, before I go. Also considering live tuning to see if I can get it to vibrate less with a little more fuel.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    6. 07-01-2019 10:49 AM #30
      I'm puzzled on why there are so many issues in such a short period of time. I'm curious what the final answer will be.

    7. 07-01-2019 11:04 AM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by mokoosh View Post
      I'm looking at this picture and is it true that #2 line is not supported in the long stretch between the pump and injector. I see that there are two brackets but none in the middle. This would be concerning to me. Like a guitar string, it could vibrate and eventually leak. I do not recall where the crack is occurring.

      Back when I worked for BMW, they had a vibration issue in the shifter at around 3-4k [manual trans]. The fix was to remove the shift linkage and tape some tire weights on the linkage. The idea is with the additional weight, it would not vibrate at the same frequency and the noise would be gone. It looked like sin, but it certainly did work.

      Using the same logic, couldn't you cut some fuel hose lengthwise and slide it on the line. Using hose clamps, attach some type of tire weight to the line. The hose would allow some isolation and the weight could cancel some of that resonance that you are getting.

      This may not sound like any sense and it may not help, but sometimes thinking like a butcher can get you out of some sticky situations. If anything, it would be simple to do.

      One last thing, when you install the line, there is no tension right? The fittings go on finger tight and you do not have to force the line in alignment. That is really important that it's tension free.

    8. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      07-02-2019 09:34 PM #32
      The photo you posted is actually more support than stock. There is an extra binder on the one and four lines and the one binds to the two, so....

      Some lines have been a perfect fit (Cohline aftermarket line). On this last one, I made sure that there was in fact slight pressure in the opposite direction of the usual break on the inside of the tight turn on #2.

      Your fuel line and weight idea made me smile. It's almost as good as my tool dip idea. Ha ha. VW has a special 2lb iron weight that mounts in the front bumper to reduce vibration. This was for people who bought new vehicles and brought them back to the dealer to complain that it vibrates like a diesel. I have one of these, but I have a light weight plastic euro-bumper so it won't mount.

      Anyway I am back to post one in thinking that I either have a failing injector or pump failing on #2. More likely the injector. I might explore this further this summer.

      After installing the new line this time, I felt the lines (wearing gloves) while running and felt a stronger pulse through #2.
      Last edited by mokoosh; 07-03-2019 at 09:37 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    9. 07-09-2019 08:57 PM #33
      Set up a weight hanging off the line by a chain. Position it very low on the car so the weight can swing fore and aft. The pendulum effect might have some sort of logical benefits. Might not help the fuel line...but, will save wear-and-tear on your clutch when you start up from static position when the weight swings forward. Weight forward.....dump the clutch and floor it...……………….
      If you need a 12 mm diesel head.....let me know. I am moving into the later ALH cars and have been hoarding several heads (solid and hydro) which have all been disassembled and cleaned.....most ported.

    10. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-04-2019 08:56 PM #34
      Finally getting into rebuilding injectors. I got a spray tester. Have some shims including some 0.05s for addition of 5 bar. Set of 4 new Bosch nozzles from India. 'Set' of four used injectors + the four on the truck for the past seven years.

      My spare set, in the photos boasts three French and one German, all 130 bar rated. German has a short spring. It was also the only one that appears to have a less than perfect spray pattern.

      Opinions on mixing German and French?

      Opinions on adding 0.05 shims to raise the bar? (This is going on a 1.9L running 1.6L pump.)
      Last edited by mokoosh; 08-04-2019 at 09:00 PM.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    11. Member
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      08-04-2019 09:45 PM #35
      I bought a injector pop tester and did just this to my friend's injectors as well as the injectors that were in that 1.9 when you got it.

      The injectors on that 1.9 were brand new but I pop tested them anyway to make sure they popped at the right pressure and matched each other. They were perfect and the spray was spot on so I didn't do anything to them.

      My friend's injectors were a whole different story. We ended up taking 8 injectors apart and then using the shims to make four matching ones. According to the Bentley, they should be at 2100 when new and 1900 when rebuilt. My friend and I didn't read past that new pressure and ended up getting his all at 2100. It ran GREAT! Then we realized what we had done we did some research and found that some people have calibrated them to 2300 and 2500 to get even better mileage efficiency.

      If you are in need of any guidance just let me know. I would love to help. It's a bummer you live so far away. I have all the tools to get this done as well as the injector shim kit with enough to adjust 8 injectors.

    12. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-05-2019 02:30 PM #36
      Quote Originally Posted by frankinstyn View Post
      If you are in need of any guidance just let me know. I would love to help. It's a bummer you live so far away. I have all the tools to get this done as well as the injector shim kit with enough to adjust 8 injectors.
      Those are your nozzles and shim kit in the photo. It was your story that has me considering raising the breaking pressure.

      If you want to get back into the MK1 diesel game, let me know:

      It's officially a build: 1982 Diesel Jetta https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=9316643

      Your 1.9L is up and running in a new body.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    13. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-14-2019 03:01 PM #37
      I rebuilt the four spare injectors (three French, one German) with new nozzles and shims from Frank. Going with Bentley and Frank's experience I opted to add shims in favor of a higher breaking pressure. On first reassembly with stock shims, I got a range of breaking pressures from 1600 to 2100. I added and swapped shims until they were all 2100. Spray patterns all looked the same.

      The overall height of the German injector was a couple mm shorter than the French ones, so I put that one on #2 cylinder.

      I also took the opportunity to fully remove the bottom pump support bracket. Let's just say it wasn't as solid as I may have thought. I found that of the two bolts that attach the bracket to the timing belt backing plate and main pump support bracket; one was loose and the other was gone. Replaced those, and retightened the two to the block and of course, the bolt and nut that attach to the rear of the pump. This actually brought my timing belt into better alignment, which says a lot about how bad it was. I currently believe that this was the main cause of the recurring #2 high pressure line failure. Of course, I've said that before.

      The results of a day + of wrenching? Have a look:

      Before:

      https://youtu.be/dwIxvwYW5f8

      After:

      https://youtu.be/4VL-Vz7YRic

      Seems like slightly less dancing in the second video to me. I also got the unexpected bonus of smoother acceleration and a few extra horses. My current theory is that securing the bracket improved smoothness and less dancing while the fresh high bar injectors are causing the extra power, but who knows.

      Still to do: check the pattern and breaking pressure of the old injectors. I have them labeled by cylinder.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    14. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-14-2019 09:13 PM #38
      Old injectors:
      #1,#3,#4: 1800 psi (125 bar)
      #2: 1700 psi (120 bar)

      Not an over high breaking pressure for #2; low in fact.

      Maybe just different enough to affect timing? Maybe a non issue.

      If there are no further posts then you can assume that the case is closed. (Give it a year or two) ✌️
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    15. 08-16-2019 09:42 AM #39
      A loose support bracket at the back of the pump certainly would put more strain on something not designed for that strain. I think you will find that the problem is resolved. You should at least update this once to indicate you have no more issues.

    16. 08-16-2019 01:34 PM #40
      Koosie, you do not need to exclusively use injector shims to set pressures. You can insert properly-sized hand-cut stainless steel feeler gauge "shims" BETWEEN the original hardened (makes contact with the spring) shim and the top of the injector body. And, if you use these, you do NOT have to have the little center hole in the new "in-between" shim.

      Customizing the pressures is really quite easy as 0.002 inch equates to 75 lbs (one direction or the other on pressures). The mathematics of it are.....well......VERY LOGICAL.

      I believe I told you all this at an earlier time. The difficult part is getting the internal components of the injector PERFECTLY flat and smooth in order to not have leakage at the center seam on the injectors. The higher the pressure (as with me at 2650 lbs. on the turbo engines) the more PERFECT the parts have to be.

      I am not sure why you guys get your rocks off on setting these engines to idle so slowly. I never have any of mine below about 1050....esp. in winter. Of course, you live where there is very little winter.

      Edit: the "odd" injector is from a 1.5 or super-early 1.6. One can only assume the spring rates are identical or close. This is something you really should have been looking for while the injectors were on the pressure test. Did you watch for "garden-hosing" and dribbling nozzles while sitting at (almost) break point? If not.....no sense in back-patting here.
      Last edited by Muldermutt; 08-16-2019 at 01:38 PM.
      If you need a 12 mm diesel head.....let me know. I am moving into the later ALH cars and have been hoarding several heads (solid and hydro) which have all been disassembled and cleaned.....most ported.

    17. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-16-2019 02:10 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Butcher View Post
      A loose support bracket at the back of the pump certainly would put more strain on something not designed for that strain. I think you will find that the problem is resolved. You should at least update this once to indicate you have no more issues.
      How many miles before I can say that the issue is resolved? A couple of lines ago I got 6000 miles. At my current rate, it will take two years to reach 10,000 miles. I will try to update then, but I might pull the engine or sell the truck before that.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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    18. Member mokoosh's Avatar
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      08-16-2019 02:28 PM #42
      Quote Originally Posted by Muldermutt View Post
      Koosie, you do not need to exclusively use injector shims to set pressures. You can insert properly-sized hand-cut stainless steel feeler gauge "shims" BETWEEN the original hardened (makes contact with the spring) shim and the top of the injector body. And, if you use these, you do NOT have to have the little center hole in the new "in-between" shim.

      Customizing the pressures is really quite easy as 0.002 inch equates to 75 lbs (one direction or the other on pressures). The mathematics of it are.....well......VERY LOGICAL.

      I believe I told you all this at an earlier time. The difficult part is getting the internal components of the injector PERFECTLY flat and smooth in order to not have leakage at the center seam on the injectors. The higher the pressure (as with me at 2650 lbs. on the turbo engines) the more PERFECT the parts have to be.

      I am not sure why you guys get your rocks off on setting these engines to idle so slowly. I never have any of mine below about 1050....esp. in winter. Of course, you live where there is very little winter.

      Edit: the "odd" injector is from a 1.5 or super-early 1.6. One can only assume the spring rates are identical or close. This is something you really should have been looking for while the injectors were on the pressure test. Did you watch for "garden-hosing" and dribbling nozzles while sitting at (almost) break point? If not.....no sense in back-patting here.
      No dribbling or dripping on any of the injectors. The only one that had an odd pattern was the German one before rebuild. That one was not very even and more concentrated. Remember, we are using new nozzles. I had the correct shims, so why not use em?

      To be clear, there are eight injectors at play here. The four that I rebuilt before removing the four that I have been running for 50,000 miles or more. The ones in the truck were all French. They are still intact, so I could test again, but I don't see the need right now.

      No leaks. I sprayed it all down with soapy water repeatedly and looked for bubbles.

      I have only been on a short test drive so far with the new setup. Looking forward to a little joy riding around the valley tomorrow. Then I'll give myself a pat on the back if all is well. I really feel like giving myself a kick in the butt for not catching and correcting the bottom bracket when I did the timing belt last. I'll be the first to admit that I am no expert at these, still learning as I go.
      Quote Originally Posted by rabbitnothopper View Post
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