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    1. Geriatric Member @McMike's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 05:26 AM #126
      Quote Originally Posted by hushypushy View Post
      At least we know the new Camaro is safe; it just plows
      3/5


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    3. Member mx5er's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 05:50 AM #127
      Didn't their sister site, engadet get in trouble with Apple over the iphone 4? If I recall, a Apple employee left behind a final prototype of the iphone 4 at a bar. A bartender found it and started to offer it to any outlet. For cash.

      But most news outlet didn't touch that b/c, journalism 101, you don't pay for your sources. I doubt Woodward and Bernstein paid Deep Throat. But engadet did and they got a lot of flak for it. And if I recall, Apple banned them future product launches. If that's true then, ouch
      Last edited by mx5er; 05-19-2015 at 06:08 AM.

    4. Member mmmoose's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 06:39 AM #128
      I'd like to know the genius behind putting a bunch of press people into a track with enclosed walls instead of an open area containing gravel pits (to give a little breathing room for accidents to happen). Not sure I can put all the blame on the Jalopnik guy for this one. Accidents happen and these aren't exactly drivers with the same skill set as the Stig.

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      05-19-2015 07:03 AM #129
      Quote Originally Posted by mx5er View Post
      Didn't their sister site, engadet get in trouble with Apple over the iphone 4? If I recall, a Apple employee left behind a final prototype of the iphone 4 at a bar. A bartender found it and started to offer it to any outlet. For cash.

      But most news outlet didn't touch that b/c, journalism 101, you don't pay for your sources. I doubt Woodward and Bernstein paid Deep Throat. But engadet did and they got a lot of flak for it. And if I recall, Apple banned them future product launches. If that's true then, ouch
      i think that was gizmodo, not engadget.

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      05-19-2015 07:07 AM #130
      As much as I'd love to bash Jalopnik, the journalist seems like a young, inexperienced reviewer who jumped at the chance to drive the car. (Hell, wouldn't any of us have jumped on that opportunity?)

      I also think he can't drive and talk. He was so focused on trying to give commentary while driving, he did a crap job on both. He should have shut up in the corners and just talked on the straights at least. Or saved the talking for the cooldown lap.

      And also, I'm sure he feels bad for wrecking the car, but the heads at Jalopnik must love the page views this is getting. That's why they published it instead of canning the whole thing. "We crashed a Camaro prototype" is a hell of a lot more click baity than "We drove a camaro prototype", and the fact that a jalopnik post has gathered this much discussion on TCL kinda proves it. If nothing happened this would be a two page thread, tops.
      Last edited by JRH2009; 05-19-2015 at 08:44 AM.

    7. Member atomicalex's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 07:54 AM #131
      Quote Originally Posted by Nealric View Post
      Most potential drivers are not expert track drivers, and their impressions may better match with a non-expert reviewer.
      Most auto journalists have at least a passing familiarity with rear wheel drive cars.

      Quote Originally Posted by ChompBit View Post
      How many times have you been paid to drive a car or even been invited to drive a car by a manufacturer?

      ....that's what I thought.

      Him > you.

      Next.
      Quite a few times, actually. It's a ton of fun. If you entertain the staff sufficiently with the Focus RS, you get to drive the preproduction Bullit.

      Quote Originally Posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
      Also, if the line was proper there is very little likelihood that you would have to turn the wheel that much. And if you do have to turn the wheel that much for the corner then for ****'s sake slow the **** down.
      About that line.... Dude clearly does not spend a whole lot of time in a RWD car. It's fine to charge up the middle of a turn in a FWD car - you charge in straight, brake like hell (straight), and then steer. Three distinct actions that are largely separated to gain maximum performance out of the front tyres. The rears are along for the ride. But in RWD, you enter wider, you begin steering sooner, you brake earlier with with less aggression, and you feather the throttle going out. All to keep the load balanced so that you can hook up the rear and hold your line.

      I watched the video, and my first thought was "lol RWD gonna bite yo ass." Especially with the arms crossed up in a street car - fine if you are driving a car that is 1:1 or so, but in a street car that is probably 2 full turns? Hell no. You shuffle that wheel so you can unwind with some power.

      Sucks for GM to lose a mule. I hope it will all buff out.

      Who said voted off the island? LOL
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    8. Undersecretary of Understeer JalopnikMatt's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:16 AM #132
      Since my presence has been requested, Beetlejuice-style, I'll address the current controversy:

      Yes, the Prius is the greatest car ever made.

    9. Member vr6swap's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:24 AM #133
      Jalopnik.

      They like cars, but don't know anything about them.
      Quote Originally Posted by 1.9..16vTurbo View Post
      you should stick to that car your trying to paint

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      05-19-2015 08:40 AM #134
      Quote Originally Posted by ChompBit View Post
      this guy > Internet forum racecar drivers
      "aim high", I always say.

    11. Geriatric Member Aonarch's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:45 AM #135
      Quote Originally Posted by 2MuchRightFt View Post
      He literally didn't unwind the wheel. The car didn't turn in until the very end when he had scrubbed off sufficient speed. I'm surprised he didn't get oversteer off that much understeer. I'd like to see an onboard (of the road) but this is a rookie mistake that many people make when they first start performance driving. Unwind the freaking wheel!!!!!

      To me the fact that he wrecked the car isn't the big issue. What does concern me is that this is the kind of person, an amateur, would be the one to offer their opinion of a performance car and the way it drives when it's pushed? I too could have sought out a liberal arts degree in literature/journalism but that doesn't by itself make me worth anything in a particular field of journalism in which I might later specialize. I'd rather Randy Pobst offer his opinion in the most basic, upfront way then listen to drivel.
      This is exactly my point.

      He lost all of his credibility, cough if he had any to begin with.

      I may sound like I am "hating" on Jalopnik, but this situation is exactly why they have very little credibility. They basically are the same as us. Just dudes who post online. A few of us are quite legitimate, but not many of them are.

      I'm sorry but I can no longer trust anything this guy ever says in regards to a cars dynamics, since he has no idea how to drive. I do not comment on medical procedures, because I do not know squat.

    12. Member Roketdriver's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:46 AM #136
      Quote Originally Posted by Crimping Is Easy View Post
      Let's see... I've never crashed a Camaro into a wall.

      Have any of you crashed a Camaro into a wall?
      No, but I got one stuck in the snow once.

      Fun fact: The top does not operate on a 2014 Camaro Convertible when it is below zero. This is especially problematic when you put it down, then it drops below zero, then you get stuck, and then you want the top back up.

      I have also taken my torque-steer express out on the track and experienced no crubs, fents, bursh, or brick.
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    13. Member 8v_gti777's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:52 AM #137
      I feel bad for the journo. Like he mentioned, following a Z/28 and giving commentary.
      Doesn't seem easy.

    14. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 08:58 AM #138
      Quote Originally Posted by 8v_gti777 View Post
      I feel bad for the journo. Like he mentioned, following a Z/28 and giving commentary.
      Doesn't seem easy.
      That has nothing to do with how he reacted to the understeer.

      Did yapping harm his concentration? Absolutely. But he had no reaction. He didn't have a single input of physical motion to counter-act the understeer once it began. And that's something that is a natural reaction for anyone experienced enough to talk about a car's driving dynamics.

      It's an excuse (among others in the article) for having no business driving the car that hard while lacking ability.

      It would be like you or I performing a surgery on a patient and saying "well I wouldn't have dropped the scalpel inside him when he started profusely bleeding if the damn radio wasn't on!"

      Tire pressure, car dynamics, talking, cameras, nerves, all irrelevant in the reason that car hit the wall.
      Quote Originally Posted by cockerpunk View Post
      yes, i am bored by FWD driving dynamics, and anyone who doesn't drive there cars to the limits and the beyond.

    15. Member intercedeGLI's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:11 AM #139
      I feel like this needs to be reiterated:

      He spent 3 nights in a Virginia jail for doing 93 in a 55 while driving a ZL1.

      Now, he just demonstrated why he has no ability to pilot a high performance vehicle under those conditions, public road or otherwise. It's clearly obvious he had no business doing the speeds he was doing as he couldn't possibly save the car if it got out of sorts. He's a walking lesson on why the former is a colossal ****ing disaster waiting to happen after showing us his abilities in the latter. If anything this should be a nice wake up call to the people who think doing this **** on public roads is acceptable.

      At least he can make himself into a walking warning for other drivers while simultaneously uninviting himself from any further performance driving opportunities. I hope Jalopnik takes a step back and gets all of their guys a weeks stay at Skip Barber.

    16. Member Vee-Dubber-GLI's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:13 AM #140
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      This is exactly my point.

      He lost all of his credibility, cough if he had any to begin with.

      I may sound like I am "hating" on Jalopnik, but this situation is exactly why they have very little credibility. They basically are the same as us. Just dudes who post online. A few of us are quite legitimate, but not many of them are.

      I'm sorry but I can no longer trust anything this guy ever says in regards to a cars dynamics, since he has no idea how to drive. I do not comment on medical procedures, because I do not know squat.
      This pretty much sums it up perfectly; for me, I think it was him talking about how the V6 wasn't the enthusiasts' choice and then he stuffs it.

    17. Member Nealric's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:17 AM #141
      Quote Originally Posted by MrRoboto View Post
      I am no expert driver, but then again, watching that video, it makes me feel like whatever review they do on that car henceforth will not give me any confidence at all towards my purchasing decision. The amateurism just deflates the whole thing for me.
      An inexperienced person will often simply have poor instincts in a situation like this. He may know exactly how you handle a RWD in such a situation, but you can panic in the moment and do exactly the opposite of what you know you should be doing. I've certainly done that before.

    18. Member Shomegrown's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:22 AM #142
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      This is exactly my point.

      He lost all of his credibility, cough if he had any to begin with.

      I may sound like I am "hating" on Jalopnik, but this situation is exactly why they have very little credibility. They basically are the same as us. Just dudes who post online. A few of us are quite legitimate, but not many of them are.

      I'm sorry but I can no longer trust anything this guy ever says in regards to a cars dynamics, since he has no idea how to drive. I do not comment on medical procedures, because I do not know squat.
      To be fair, that's not just a Jalopnik thing. Even the big name outlets have guys on staff that are really just average drivers.

      I've been to press events and have seen guys putter around the track later to write a colorful article which makes you think they are Chris ****ing Harris.

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      05-19-2015 09:28 AM #143
      Never been on Jalopnik, sounds like they're the Buzzfeed of automobiles? If that's the case, this makes perfect sense.

    20. Member 01tj's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:29 AM #144
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      To be fair, that's not just a Jalopnik thing. Even the big name outlets have guys on staff that are really just average drivers.

      I've been to press events and have seen guys putter around the track later to write a colorful article which makes you think they are Chris ****ing Harris.
      I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing though since most buyers are average drivers.

    21. Member dos's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:32 AM #145
      Irony?
      http://jalopnik.com/5785726/british-...aks-ferrari-ff
      The chaps at CAR magazine discovered the difficulty of talking to the camera while simultaneously driving a car when they crashed their Ferrari FF while trying to do just that.

      The reviewer, Jethro Bovingdon, rightly freaks out after smashing what is a $285K car. Perhaps he was bothered because he said the words "It seems to work really really well" right before the accident. Followed by him running out to assess the damage, getting into the car, chanting "Oh my god" and "No, no no" repeatedly.
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      Quote Originally Posted by whiteboy1 View Post
      My point that you changing his quote to "prove him wrong" is ridiculous. Obviously we're talking about opinions and different needs. Its as if I'm hungry for a burger and you telling me that having a milkshake is better because you can drink them instead of chew.

    22. Member Kar98's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:34 AM #146
      Quote Originally Posted by Bonk2Hossa View Post
      Never been on Jalopnik, sounds like they're the Buzzfeed of automobiles? If that's the case, this makes perfect sense.
      Jalopnik is part of Gawker Media. Gawker Media is home to Jalopnik (lets drive this Camaro into a wall), Jezebel (five signs that all men are all rapists!), Kotaku (video games are racist and misogynist), and Gizmodo (Hail Apple!)

      Further questions?
      Nowdays us made cars what you're proud of

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      05-19-2015 09:47 AM #147
      turn 13?

      Demokratikally Elekted Direktor and Konveyor of Positive Vibrations for the Independent People's Republik of Offtopikstan
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    24. Senior Member Mike!'s Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:52 AM #148
      Quote Originally Posted by surefooted View Post
      Who was the driver?
      Ted Cruz. He should stick to running for President.




    25. Senior Member Silly_me's Avatar
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      05-19-2015 09:53 AM #149
      Ceaser Windsor was a great racing driver, I'm glad to see a corner named after him.

      Oh, and I can't believe how dangerous the new Camaro is I can hear Ralph Nader's Underwood clacking away!
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      05-19-2015 09:56 AM #150
      Quote Originally Posted by Shomegrown View Post
      To be fair, that's not just a Jalopnik thing. Even the big name outlets have guys on staff that are really just average drivers.
      Agreed. All the US car mags have at least one (or two) guy on staff that is their go-to perf testing person and knows his way around a track, but not all of them are Barber/Bondurant battle tested.
      That's why I like how MT has basically made Randy P their full time hot shoe...the guy has done every track test for maybe 2 yrs now.

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