Fourtitude.com - Stock Turbo Dyno Showdown Showcase! Eurodyne Stg2 vs Motoza Stg1+
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    1. Senior Member Vegeta Gti's Avatar
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      12-07-2014 07:53 PM #101
      there has been no clarity with this on going issue. and this is from my standpoint in this forum and on this board for the last 12 years.

      Doug does this thread yearly..then people have issues, it comes down to stuff he puts int hese htreads as bullet proof,etc,etc and he leaves people in the dark to point fingers or everyones outcome falls short of the posted outcome.

      there must be an issue when people jump in who have nothign to do with gonzo, or whom ever doug is having an arguement with.

      yes, i am gonzo dealer, and i used to be a huge critic, but he PROVED ME WRONG. and still shows me genius to this day, and my car is still top notch. everytime i go to show it..my threads get black holed out spite, becausei do multiple dynos in a day showing consistency and reliablity in my hot ass climate. anyway..

      the fact is, people are voicing up because it's the same **** over and over. Ed shouldn't be chiming in, because that shows bias, not just the use of his facilities.

      but oh well, it will continually happen, and the world will go on.

      it should've been baseline the car on the dyne, then with the bolt ons, then with each software provider(more than 2 because it would HELP YOU SELL KITS) and so on.
      :HOMEGROWN MOTORSPORTS..SingerVehicleDesign...1:4.9 SuaSponte #13Dead Rabbits. Ungluck on IG. MKIforLife
      Quote Originally Posted by .Ant View Post
      What vegeta said.

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    3. 12-07-2014 08:13 PM #102
      Max bashes Ed's facility and dyno and he shouldn't chime in because he supports FT? Where is the logic? Ed was PROFESSIONAL enough to prove everyone wrong on his own time without charging Max (please correct me if I'm wrong). He answered the questions he could to help clarify everything.

      Max and I are friends outside of this and every time we do see each other,its usually a chuckle with everything going on here on the forums. We have a mutual respect for one another regardless if we disagree on certain things. I stand to gain nothing by arguing. I just hope that the 1.8t forum can grow up and stop forming a damn lynch mob every time Doug posts something.

    4. Former Advertiser
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      12-07-2014 08:36 PM #103
      This could've easily solved if Doug would've used a different dyno to corroborate his results plus a baseline.

      This is getting out of hand.

    5. 12-07-2014 08:50 PM #104
      Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] Performance View Post
      This could've easily solved if Doug would've used a different dyno to corroborate his results plus a baseline.

      This is getting out of hand.
      What would using a different dyno do?

    6. 12-07-2014 10:08 PM #105
      Quote Originally Posted by spartiati View Post
      What would using a different dyno do?
      Shouldn't much matter as long as it's all done on the same dyno in similar conditions. The data is nice to look at, but a stock baseline would've been the right place to start, heck even a few pulls on the stock programing with the exhaust left on the car would be nice.

    7. Member Dave926's Avatar
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      12-07-2014 11:51 PM #106
      Steve,

      Unless the base tune is ****, a stock turbo car is not going to gain 30whp on timing alone, unless making a drastic change in fueling type (race, e85, wmi etc.)

      From the brief research Ive done on here, stage 2 cars running a dynojets run ~225whp.

      Mustangs/dyno dynamics range about ~200whp.

      According to a dyno day Ed hosted a few years back, users reported making more power than they expected.

      But what comes into actual debate here is how much power a stock hardware car can actually support, and which dyno is actually 'accurate'

      Stock fuel injectors are 317cc (30lb/hr) @3bar, and 366cc (35lb/hr)@ 4bar.

      Lets assume a 100% idc and keeping it simple. BSFC of 0.6, on the leaner side of things for a turbo car....

      (36 x 4)/0.6 = 240 HP. Assuming a 15% loss (fair?) thats 200whp. Use a realistic IDC (90%) and that number is even less.

      The graphed logs he posted of the Maestro file are pretty similar to where mine used to be, where I made 200/254 on a MD-500


      And the 285whp dyno he posted with the F21 on the same car? I think thats a crock. I tuned one to the same power level, with WMI and a bucket load of timing (Dynocom). With a CDM intercooler there is no chance that wagon had much more than 12* of advance.

      Arent most of the F21 cars on the FT page making 255-260whp? Where the hell is 285whp coming from?


      And sorry Ed, when it involves your livelihood I would expect one would do the best they can to post the best numbers possible. Doug's credibility really went out the window with his fabricated compressor maps, but yet Vortex keeps letting this guy have an advertiser account.

      Also, isnt the 424x two 224x dynos put together?

    8. 12-08-2014 06:38 AM #107
      So if your research showed they average about 225hp, why is everyone crying heresy? Motoza was around 221hp and Eurodyne at 230hp.

      I've tuned a few cars where users wanted to keep things conservative on the street tune with water meth and then we turned things up on the dyno in terms of boost and timing to keep torque within check. I wouldn't call it a crap base file. Just conservative initially. Overall HP increased 10-15hp but the area under the curve (what vortex really never looks at) was significantly increased.

    9. Member lorge1989's Avatar
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      12-08-2014 07:08 AM #108
      Quote Originally Posted by spartiati View Post
      So if your research showed they average about 225hp, why is everyone crying heresy? Motoza was around 221hp and Eurodyne at 230hp.

      I've tuned a few cars where users wanted to keep things conservative on the street tune with water meth and then we turned things up on the dyno in terms of boost and timing to keep torque within check. I wouldn't call it a crap base file. Just conservative initially. Overall HP increased 10-15hp but the area under the curve (what vortex really never looks at) was significantly increased.
      Because thats engine hp, the graphs posted were whp.



      I think you guys are just being too sensitive and in general need to get a life. The fact that he is doing any development/test with the ancient 1.8T is benficial to the community, period. VW/Audi stuff is less and less about performance now a-days, so we need to embrace it.

      At the end of the day there are just a few questions that matter...

      1. Are people happy with their Frankenturbo? Pretty much every thread I've seen they love it.
      2. Does Doug follow up with his customers and stand behind his product? Once again yes.

      So why are you giving him so much **** over such a stupid detail, when most of you who are complaining will never run a setup comparable to his?

      The compressor map thing was obviously not right, but most people who want to run his setups just want some idea where they will stand, its not a make or break piece of information in any way.

      As far as this goes a baseline pull would have been great, just so we could see the gains from each of these, but the purpose of the thread was to compare two different tunes, and he did that well.

    10. Member GasInMyVeins's Avatar
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      12-08-2014 08:08 AM #109
      Jesus, this went off the rails over the weekend.

      I don't think I even have anything to reply to. Doug's first response to me seemed to be about his other thread, and so it devolved into an argument over non-stock turbos. Dave926's response about injector flow was enlightening though.
      2003 GTI 20AE #1901: my Jazz Blue racecar
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    11. 12-08-2014 11:49 AM #110
      Quote Originally Posted by lorge1989 View Post
      Because thats engine hp, the graphs posted were whp.



      I think you guys are just being too sensitive and in general need to get a life. The fact that he is doing any development/test with the ancient 1.8T is benficial to the community, period. VW/Audi stuff is less and less about performance now a-days, so we need to embrace it.

      At the end of the day there are just a few questions that matter...

      1. Are people happy with their Frankenturbo? Pretty much every thread I've seen they love it.
      2. Does Doug follow up with his customers and stand behind his product? Once again yes.

      So why are you giving him so much **** over such a stupid detail, when most of you who are complaining will never run a setup comparable to his?

      The compressor map thing was obviously not right, but most people who want to run his setups just want some idea where they will stand, its not a make or break piece of information in any way.

      As far as this goes a baseline pull would have been great, just so we could see the gains from each of these, but the purpose of the thread was to compare two different tunes, and he did that well.

      Well said sir.

    12. Member elRey's Avatar
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      12-08-2014 11:58 AM #111
      unsub'sd

    13. Former Advertiser
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      05-21-2015 07:45 PM #112
      Are you looking for a pistol-hot cup of vitriol with which to toast Memorial Day? Well drink it in, folks!

      Upsee-Daisy.

    14. 05-22-2015 01:02 PM #113
      Why bring this back from the dead, seriously?

    15. 05-22-2015 01:07 PM #114
      The whole forum is dead. Any life is better than none!

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