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    1. 05-02-2013 10:16 AM #51
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Most of the wealthy people I know own their own business. For many, that business is a medical/dental practice. I'm sure medicine is like almost any other profession; the real money comes when you work for yourself.
      YES! Dental! 90% of our clients are Dentists. Most work 3 & 1/2 days a week, with long lunches (1.5 hours is the norm), and can pull in $300K/year easy if they have a healthy practice. They pay their employees well too. My hygienist friends make $50K/year right out of the gate for that same 3.5 day work week, but it is hard on their backs/necks/hands.
      Last edited by Brett92; 05-02-2013 at 10:20 AM.

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    3. 05-02-2013 10:17 AM #52
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      My wife and I were talking about this the other day; a financial analyst at her office was glad because he had just gotten a raise (after about 2-3 years there) and crossed the $50k threshold. She and I started just under $50k out of college...in 2005. Jobs that paid $48k in 2005 to start they are now hiring in at like $36k or $40k. Nuts.
      I guess it paid for me to go to a well known school around here because I haven't had a full year of work after college that was under 60k. On the other hand, going to even a well known law school seems like a bad idea right now. A friend of mine went to Notre Dame, and is working as a tax accountant.

    4. Senior Member Cousin Eddie's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 10:18 AM #53
      Shouldn't this be like "Justification for dealing yayo" or "Justification as a 1%er ripping off the 99%"???

    5. Senior Member 6cylVWguy's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 10:20 AM #54
      Quote Originally Posted by aar0n. View Post
      You're definitely right about how a college degree doesn't guarantee anything anymore but at the same time, because the market is so saturated with college grads, an undergrad degree in 2013 is the equivalent of a HS degree 30-40 years ago. Yes, you can certainly make it in life without college, but with how so many people now have those degrees, even some basic retail/customer service jobs now require a bachelors degree That said, specific skilled trades are definitely a solid way to go and have a career and I have many friends who went this route. While it isn't a traditional bachelors degree, as other people have mentioned in this thread, there is still a large amount of time invested in learning the trade

      I was specifically referring to the posts about how only those in the medical field can be super rich or how no one in the medical field can really make that kind of money lol
      You definitely make a good point about the over saturation of bachelor's degrees, but at the same time, it's not like you're making a ton of additional money just because you stay (or go back) to school and get any type of graduate degree. And with the price that a good college costs (even some public universities), I wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swings back towards more people going into the trades. Back in the mid 90's the college I went to had a total tuition (room+board incl.) of $25k/yr. Right now, it's supposedly $60k/yr. That's just not worth it. But some state schools aren't anywhere near the bargains they were in the 90's either. I might seriously consider a trade if I was ready to graduate hs in the next year or two.

      The medical field is a tricky beast--some people claim they don't make enough money and others clearly are making cash hand over fist. Medscape recently released their own physician salary survey and the highest paid docs were the orthopods, with an avg salary over $300k. Sounds like a lot of money and it is, but there are a lot of things that can eat into that number. There are also a lot of ways physicians can supplement their income if they are so inclined, so what these guys make by seeing patients is no indication of what they actually take home.

    6. Moderator aar0n.'s Avatar
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      05-02-2013 10:23 AM #55
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Most of the wealthy people I know own their own business. For many, that business is a medical/dental practice. I'm sure medicine is like almost any other profession; the real money comes when you work for yourself.
      So so true

      Quote Originally Posted by Brett92 View Post
      Wow, $50K-$60K doesn't sound like a lot at all for NYC.

      I'm in GA, so you don't need a lot of money to live, but there are entry level, "professional" (non geeksquad, etc.) IT jobs paying $25K a year. Actually, I didn't start at much more than that 5 years ago with a Bachelor's degree and A+ certification. OTOH, if you can get a job at the local military base, they pay entry level IT guys like $60K-$65K, with more specialized people getting 6 figures. I assume the pay is higher because it's federal, but also because of the clearance involved. I've thought about working there but most of the jobs are contracts with crappy shifts.
      It's enough to just get by but like I said, it's entry level at my company. Most of the IT people at my company who have been here for a bit make a good amount more, so it isn't bad at all. That said, most people in NYC who work in areas like PR or Marketing start off making $20-35k a year to pretty much just be someone's personal assistant (b*tch), so it can always be worse
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      05-02-2013 10:31 AM #56
      It really does seem that entrepreneurship is really the only way to "make it" these days...at least if you want to live that kind of lifestyle. Sadly enough, being an entrepreneur isn't as simple as it seems. I'm still young, but from what I've seen, you either have it or don't have it when it comes to having those ideas and there isn't much you can do to become more entrepreneurial minded. Perhaps a bit more experience and exposure to things will fix that though.

      Precisely why my goal is to enter into international business. Just because there aren't enough jobs over here doesn't mean that I can't be hired by a corporation to manage and exploit fresh, unexplored markets in the rest of the world.


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      05-02-2013 10:31 AM #57
      Quote Originally Posted by roadtripper View Post
      yes -- i'm going to go ahead and disagree anecdotally with this idea that only the top 5% of doctors make "real" money. in my backwater town alone, i know at least six doctors personally with very hefty sports car/racetrack funds. two are eye surgeons and one is a rheumatologist. the person that lives two doors down from me (psychiatrist) has a garage that rivals that poster.
      You have no idea if those physicians are from money, if they really do make as much as you think just by working on patients, if they get supplemental money from other outlets (expert witness, CME speaker, consultants to pharma, etc), or some combination of the above. And in addition, some of the guys who are subspecialists will make quite a bit of money just for that very reason. You want some guy making $50k/yr and hating life repairing you're eyes? Seriously? I wouldn't. There's also a big difference between the specialists you know and the majority of physicians in some type of primary care field making say $150/yr and have at least double that in student loans. You painting everyone with the same brush is beyond silly.

      You can make a ton of money if you're smart about things and make the right choices---if obtaining large amounts of wealth is important, that is. Physicians are no different than anyone else in that respect.

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      05-02-2013 10:47 AM #58
      Quote Originally Posted by zaYG View Post
      It really does seem that entrepreneurship is really the only way to "make it" these days...at least if you want to live that kind of lifestyle. Sadly enough, being an entrepreneur isn't as simple as it seems. I'm still young, but from what I've seen, you either have it or don't have it when it comes to having those ideas and there isn't much you can do to become more entrepreneurial minded. Perhaps a bit more experience and exposure to things will fix that though.

      Precisely why my goal is to enter into international business. Just because there aren't enough jobs over here doesn't mean that I can't be hired by a corporation to manage and exploit fresh, unexplored markets in the rest of the world.

      Just read an interesting piece about going overseas to work

      http://postmasculine.com/work-overse...=work-overseas

      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      You have no idea if those physicians are from money, if they really do make as much as you think just by working on patients, if they get supplemental money from other outlets (expert witness, CME speaker, consultants to pharma, etc), or some combination of the above. And in addition, some of the guys who are subspecialists will make quite a bit of money just for that very reason. You want some guy making $50k/yr and hating life repairing you're eyes? Seriously? I wouldn't. There's also a big difference between the specialists you know and the majority of physicians in some type of primary care field making say $150/yr and have at least double that in student loans. You painting everyone with the same brush is beyond silly.

      You can make a ton of money if you're smart about things and make the right choices---if obtaining large amounts of wealth is important, that is. Physicians are no different than anyone else in that respect.
      All well-said
      The Car Lounge summed up

      Quote Originally Posted by Fined View Post
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    10. 05-02-2013 10:54 AM #59
      Quote Originally Posted by aar0n. View Post
      So so true


      It's enough to just get by but like I said, it's entry level at my company. Most of the IT people at my company who have been here for a bit make a good amount more, so it isn't bad at all. That said, most people in NYC who work in areas like PR or Marketing start off making $20-35k a year to pretty much just be someone's personal assistant (b*tch), so it can always be worse
      Haha, true.

      IT is an especially strange beast IMO. Supply & Demand shouldn't apply because there are a lot of people who *claim* they know how to do it, but can't. I was at an office yesterday. 1x network hub, 1x 10/100 switch, 1x consumer grade router, network wiring that is ran on the outside of the wall - literally a bundle of wires just coming through the ceiling (wires weren't even secured to the wall or anything). None of the network equipment was mounted, just sitting on the floor in a semi high traffic storage closet. Server wasn't on a UPS. No backup - not even a local backup. Poorly configured AV. Installer used the factory Dell image that was bloated with tons of trialware, instead of just loading a custom image.

      ...that felt good. Thanks for letting me rant.

    11. 05-02-2013 10:58 AM #60
      Want to be rich? Start a business yourself and make it successful. It will take lots of hard work and time to do that, but that is the best way to get rich. Now running a successful business is much harder than it really sounds, and an education can help you get some of the skill set needed to make it run. From my experience with my side business and helping my dad out (who owns 3 different small businesses now), having an accounting degree/background is one of the most valuable degrees you can have for running a business yourself.

      Overall education is a tool, not a guarantee of salary. I know many people that I graduated college with ~3 years ago that are in the lower to mid 30s for their degrees, while I am much higher than that. Mostly because I have been a much harder worker since I got out, but there is some luck involved as well.

    12. Member VeeDblYu's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 11:03 AM #61
      Well, I'm going into my last year for my bachelors next year with an IT related major/minor combo and I can tell you that CT at least has no shortage of entry level IT fields that pay 50-65k right out the door. A friend of mine just signed on with an insurance company in Hartford with 65k base salary first year and a 5k sign on bonus, not bad for an entry level programmer (C#, ASP.NET, javascript, jquery). There is definitely room to move up quickly at some of those insurance companies too. I was fortunate enough to get a job in my IT department as a full faculty member, just at the right place at the right time, guess we'll have to see if it'll lead anywhere after I graduate. If not then I have plenty of places in Hartford I could look into. One thing I found true thru my college career too is that that phrase, it's who you know, definitely holds true.

      And Brett92, I'm involved with networking on campus and I could only imagine what that closet looked like . Networking is really the field I'm looking to go into, and it's awesome bc my school is going to IP phones around when I graduate and they're going to need someone to manage that system.

    13. Member 2ohgti's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 11:09 AM #62
      Quote Originally Posted by Aonarch View Post
      As stated higher education doesn't guarantee squat.

      Look at my aunt with two PhD's.

      Or all the dotcommers with high school diplomas.
      I agree higher education doesn't always mean you will make more money. I hire a lot of psychologist (Ph.D or Psy.D) that make the same money nurses I hire. Everyone thinks physicians make a lot and this isn't always the case. If they owe a lot in student loans they will still tell you they are broke even with a $200-$400k salary.
      My wife is a therapist and has a masters and a post masters degree and makes the same money I make with only a bachelor's degree. She owes $85k in student loans total I paid for most of my bachelor's while working full time, so I owe much less.

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      05-02-2013 11:30 AM #63
      Its a little outdated now but here is my own personal " justification for higher education", The shelby I restored 3 years ago and still have. The MK2 jetta has been replaced by a 2008 Accord EX-L. I currently have a 54 chevy that I am doing now, LS powered chopped and bagged. All of which I own outright with no loans.



      With that being said, I am gonna be 23 at the end of this month, I graduated high school in 2008, got my associated degree in 2011 and I am getting my bachelors degree in 16 days. As far as what the future brings I am unsure at this point. My two degrees are in the criminal justice field, So I have considered going to law school. It is a ton of debt to take on (around 180K) so I am going to need to think about that. I am close friends with the town judge who also works for the state court of appeals and I have spent time with him on the job and very much enjoyed that as well. On the other hand I have been restoring cars/doing autobody for a few years now an do enjoy that. I have a talent for it however the clientele in my area isn't too great, and with today's economy not a lot of people have extra cash to dump into "toys".

    15. 05-02-2013 11:31 AM #64
      It's been my observation that you're never going to make big money working for someone else and keeping a savings account. Seems the millionaires out there either start their own venture and/or invest their money in things. Playing it safe is fine, but it doesn't lead to mad cash.

    16. Banned Chris Stack's Avatar
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      05-02-2013 11:35 AM #65
      Quote Originally Posted by Dscot8r!2 View Post
      Hard work and fortitude provide more wealth and happiness than just having an acronym behind your name. $.02
      Absolutely, but hard work and fortitude AND an acronym (or two or three) are more valuable than just hard work and fortitude about 98% of the time.

      I agree a BS/BA is certainly not a guaranteed ticket to wealth, but that's a ridiculous reason to not get one.

      -Chris, BS, MBA

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      05-02-2013 11:37 AM #66
      Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
      It's been my observation that you're never going to make big money working for someone else and keeping a savings account. Seems the millionaires out there either start their own venture and/or invest their money in things. Playing it safe is fine, but it doesn't lead to mad cash.
      Pretty much it J... the only people with real money are successful at a) investing or b) run a successful company (and either hold onto it, or sell it).

      There are still some professions that pay well, e.g. medical specialists (say, radio oncologists), but that's only for now.

      My motivation?

      Hell, cash out and move here:

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      05-02-2013 11:38 AM #67
      Quote Originally Posted by LordBass View Post
      I would have probably skipped the 928 and the E30, and used the money to build a driveway and a garage up NEAR THE HOUSE!

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      05-02-2013 11:43 AM #68
      Quote Originally Posted by 6cylVWguy View Post
      You have no idea if those physicians are from money, if they really do make as much as you think just by working on patients, if they get supplemental money from other outlets (expert witness, CME speaker, consultants to pharma, etc), or some combination of the above. And in addition, some of the guys who are subspecialists will make quite a bit of money just for that very reason. You want some guy making $50k/yr and hating life repairing you're eyes? Seriously? I wouldn't. There's also a big difference between the specialists you know and the majority of physicians in some type of primary care field making say $150/yr and have at least double that in student loans. You painting everyone with the same brush is beyond silly.

      You can make a ton of money if you're smart about things and make the right choices---if obtaining large amounts of wealth is important, that is. Physicians are no different than anyone else in that respect.
      actually, i do, in all but one of those cases. but in any event, that's why i used the word "anecdotally." i also specifically mentioned in my post that most of the big money people have supplemental interests if you go back and read it. you just left that part out when you quoted me for some reason.

      and yes, i thought it went without saying that these people own their own practices. i didn't say in my post that there weren't marginal jobs for marginal or young doctors. the world needs HMOs too. but that stratification of income is hardly unique to medicine. i think this idea that medicine is somehow falling off the list of high pay and high opportunity is a little exaggerated.

      if you need to take excessive levels of debt to get the paper, AND you're unsure of your prospects at getting a good placement when you are done, it's no different than any other college dreamer: maybe you're a bit over your head. yes, that's a generalization. but don't tell me real talent doesn't still have unlimited potential in medicine. i know lots of "struggling" lawyers. i don't know any "struggling" doctors. (once again; anecdotal.)

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      05-02-2013 11:46 AM #69
      Quote Originally Posted by baljet View Post
      Higher education doesn't buy any of this stuff unless you're in the medical field.
      Right now I'm at masters + 33 and I'm lucky to have a 2 stall garage and 3 used vehicles.

      Quote Originally Posted by In 4 Bagels, Left Hungry View Post
      i think a lot of us did
      Me too

      Quote Originally Posted by izzo View Post
      Don't care about Ferris and Porschas and such.
      I want this... Somewhat pure unobtanium here, but back home is not.




      But "justification for higher education" you say??? Hmmm...



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      05-02-2013 11:49 AM #70
      Quote Originally Posted by aar0n. View Post
      Just read an interesting piece about going overseas to work

      http://postmasculine.com/work-overse...=work-overseas
      That is certainly a bit reassuring. That story about the hotel in Kuala Lumpur is great.

      Thanks for posting it

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      05-02-2013 11:52 AM #71
      Quote Originally Posted by aar0n. View Post
      Where are you located? Wages and salaries are tied into the cost of living in the area you live/work in. Entry level IT jobs at my company in NYC right now are paying $50-60k and there's plenty of potential for more but tied in with the cost of living in NYC, it really isn't much at all
      That's crazy, there are bartenders in NYC that make $60-80k and sometimes more. And that's only working a handful of days a week.
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      05-02-2013 11:53 AM #72
      Quote Originally Posted by hipster. View Post
      That's crazy, there are bartenders in NYC that make $60-80k and sometimes more. And that's only working a handful of days a week.
      Herd mentality unfortunately leads many into professions that were traditionally well remunerated. The balance is shifting due to the enormous amount of folks out there now with university degrees. People with respectable training in a "blue collar" field stand to be the minority going forward... supply and demand folks.

      Imagine how great life could be working 30 hours/wk at a bar for 60-80k vs. working 50+ hours/wk behind a terminal assessing whatever for 60-80k.
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      05-02-2013 11:54 AM #73
      Quote Originally Posted by Preppy View Post
      Herd mentality unfortunately leads many into professions that were traditionally well remunerated.

      Imagine how great life could be working 30 hours/wk at a bar for 60-80k vs. working 50+ hours/wk behind a terminal assessing whatever for 60-80k.
      Either way in NYC you're flat broke, and tending bar is basically without upside.

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      05-02-2013 11:57 AM #74
      Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stack View Post
      Either way in NYC you're flat broke, and tending bar is basically without upside.
      Other than perhaps, more free time and no "corporate stress", all things being equal with a corporate job. At least the experience can be parlayed into something entrepreneurial (not that the other can't).
      I've learned to appreciate non traditional degree required careers lately...

      Yes, NYC is a ridiculous place to live - you need A LOT of money to live a pretty decent lifestyle, otherwise, you're living in a relatively lower standard.

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      Last edited by Preppy; 05-02-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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      05-02-2013 11:58 AM #75
      Who needs an education when you can live off credit?


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