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    1. Member
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      10-11-2010 09:51 PM #26
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      All the flag-wavers are still foaming at the mouth about "Government Motors."

      I'm a little bummed the engine will kick in over 70mph. I thought I was a good candidate for an all-electric commute, but I try to spend as much time over 70 as possible.

      well 70 mph doesn't sound so bad with both gas and electric giving efficient performance even then

      At speeds above 70 mph, the gas engine contributes its motive force to the wheels, and Volt powertrain engineer Pam Fletcher said it can also play a part at speeds as low as roughly 35 mph. The result is a performance boost and an efficiency improvement of 10 to 15 percent versus if the engine worked just to supply energy to the battery and electric motor.

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    3. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 09:53 PM #27
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      Al
      I'm a little bummed the engine will kick in over 70mph. I thought I was a good candidate for an all-electric commute, but I try to spend as much time over 70 as possible.
      You're misunderstanding. It only does this if it's already running because the batteries are depleated. The car will run top speed in full electric mode with no ICE. The new information is that when the ICE is running, it can be partially coupled to the wheels above 70MPH to increase efficiency on long trips. You can still commute the first 40 miles in full electric mode.

    4. Member rimtrim's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 10:04 PM #28
      Quote Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
      I'm a little bummed the engine will kick in over 70mph. I thought I was a good candidate for an all-electric commute, but I try to spend as much time over 70 as possible.
      I think the gas engine only powers the car when the batteries are low. If you have a good charge and you exceed 70 MPH, then the extra boost comes from the secondary electric motor (motor-generator) and not from the gas engine. When the battery is low, the gas engine starts driving the motor-generator (therefore switching it from motor to generator). If you hit 70 in that case, then the same thing happens -- the m-g starts putting power into the gearbox -- except now the motor-generator is itself being driven by the gas engine rather than by the battery, so indirectly the gas engine is putting power to the wheels.

      This design has some basic similarities to the Toyota hybrids (main motor, motor-generator and gas engine all connected to a gearbox) but the gear setup is different so it has a different set of possible modes. I wonder if the GM design is inherently better, or if Toyota's design is better suited to a non-plugin hybrid while GM's is better for a plug-in car?

      By the way, for those who said this is proof GM can innovate...GM has always been good at innovating, just not so good at making the product actually work before they put it on sale Many of GM's most innovative ideas (Corvair, Vega, Citation, Aztek, computer-controlled carburetor, V8-6-4, Powermaster brakes...) ended up giving the company a bad reputation because they were half-baked or compromised in an attempt to get them to market quickly and cheaply. Hopefully this isn't another one of those.

      -Andrew L
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      10-11-2010 10:13 PM #29
      Quote Originally Posted by justanotherusername View Post
      No, not really. This is much more of an electric car than any other hybrid. You could use the Volt for months without ever having to put fuel in it. That means it's an electric car.
      Could, but wont, so its not.

    6. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 10:34 PM #30
      Quote Originally Posted by NeezDuts View Post
      Could, but wont, so its not.
      WTF are you talking about "could but won't"?

      If your commute is less than 40 miles, you WILL NOT use gas, except for a few minutes a week when the engine runs for mainanence. It's an electric car in EVERY sense of the word for that first 40 miles.

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      10-11-2010 10:40 PM #31
      Quote Originally Posted by justanotherusername View Post
      WTF are you talking about "could but won't"?

      If your commute is less than 40 miles, you WILL NOT use gas, except for a few minutes a week when the engine runs for mainanence. It's an electric car in EVERY sense of the word for that first 40 miles.
      "You could drive it daily without using gasoline"
      Yeah, but people won't. Effectively (and by definition) it isn't an EV.

    8. Member Robstr's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 10:43 PM #32
      If you're under 40 miles before you charge it, it's 100% electric.
      If you're above that per trip it's not.

      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?

      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

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      10-11-2010 10:45 PM #33
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      If you're under 40 miles before you charge it, it's 100% electric.
      If you're above that per trip it's not.

      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?

      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.
      An electric car uses electricity. Notice how I said electricity, and not "usually electricity"?

      Its not merely a hybrid, but it is certainly not an EV.

    10. Member intercedeGLI's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 10:49 PM #34
      Quote Originally Posted by NeezDuts View Post
      "You could drive it daily without using gasoline"
      Yeah, but people won't. Effectively (and by definition) it isn't an EV.
      And yet, if I owned a Volt, it would never use a drop of gas during my daily commute or my weekend errands.

    11. Senior Member
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      10-11-2010 10:52 PM #35
      Quote Originally Posted by rimtrim View Post
      By the way, for those who said this is proof GM can innovate...GM has always been good at innovating, just not so good at making the product actually work before they put it on sale
      I've tried to point something out that is probably unknown to many folks outside the industry before. It's the ability for car companies... actually any product company... to integrate all the functions/subsystems of the whole product... and do it seemlessly such that the customer does not notice transitions. Such that the customer does not see discomfort. Such that the customer is not surprised/scared/annoyed.

      Whether it is pre-planning or brainstorming for all the scenarios that must be dealt in order to be pro-active... or testing in many environments... or developing innovations (hardware or software)... or calibration... all this work is what makes a product feel refined... or rough and... half-baked.

      What impresses me about the Volt is that GM could have taken the easy way out and just made a truly 100% EV. Nothing against Nissan and the Leaf (because it has its mission, too, but 100% EV is a simpler technical solution), but the multi-mission Volt is very complex affair. It was a risky step when Lutz asked for such an answer to the Prius. It is anti-engineer in its anti-KISS principles. It is the more expensive solution. But it is a hellavuh compromise that manages to afford more PROs than CONs. It's too early to tell anything, but I like what I'm reading so far.
      Last edited by uncleho; 10-11-2010 at 10:55 PM.

    12. Member Robstr's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 10:54 PM #36
      That's completely besides the general point.

      It doesn't matter if it can use the engine to directly drive the car or not. It maintains the 40-ish mile pure electric range.

      Under that range there is no functional difference between something with only batteries and this car.

      In day to day usage most people in the country wouldn't use a drop of gas. We average something like 12k miles per year, that's less than 40 per day.
      Last edited by Robstr; 10-11-2010 at 10:57 PM.

    13. Member jettafan[atic]'s Avatar
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      10-11-2010 11:01 PM #37
      I've gotta say that I am incredibly impressed with GM. I didn't think that they were going to be able to design such an innovative car and really make it work let alone get it from concept to working concept to production. This car is incredible, all the people that are slinging mud about it need to put aside their biases and realize this as an evolutionary leap in green technology. It's not just designed around strict practicality like the Leaf, it doesn't have any sort of limited range. Sure after a point you won't be going on pure electricity but even with the generator running it's a pretty damn efficient machine. I see this as being worlds better than a Prius because depending on how far you need to drive you really can go about your weekly commute with 0 gas used.

      I've been somewhat biased against electric vehicles that are touted as being far better than the environment because of the huge negative effects of mining the materials you need to make the batteries. New research in carbon nanotubes is showing a lot of promise for being able to "grow" nanobatteries containing trillions of cells out of carbon though so hopefully it won't be too long before we'll be growing batteries in a lab. Seeing all the news about this car lately is really making me see that cars like this are the best bet we have for eco friendly mass transportation in the future.
      Quote Originally Posted by a3lad View Post
      the mods aborted the thread and now who knows what that thread might have turn out to be... maybe one day it wouldve cured cancer.

    14. Senior Member
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      10-11-2010 11:03 PM #38
      Quote Originally Posted by NeezDuts View Post
      An electric car uses electricity. Notice how I said electricity, and not "usually electricity"?

      Its not merely a hybrid, but it is certainly not an EV.
      Sure it is.

      Read The Car Connection article. The writer (without any help from GM) logically explains it best. And if you are so hung up on semantics, because of whatever bias... here is another example...

      Is it a helo? Or a plane? Or both?

    15. Senior Member feels_road's Avatar
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      10-11-2010 11:36 PM #39
      Now I understand why GM said the engine needed to run over a range of rpms. I wonder what that range exactly is, though. The different articles cite possible operation above 30, 35, 50, and 70mph... (although 70mph up seems to be the main operation mode). The useful mph range must be limited by the flexibility of the planetary gear set and the useful (in terms of power and NVH) range of the gas engine.

      The set-up makes perfect sense: not only does it increase the efficiency of the gas engine, but it also makes use of it's torque under high-demand circumstances. Why not make use of what you have put into the car? Since planetary gears are the way to go for efficiency (vs. conventional slush boxes), I wonder if other car manufacturers were sufficiently forward-thinking to get their own patents lined up. How many variations of this theme will we see?

    16. Member
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      10-11-2010 11:54 PM #40
      Quote Originally Posted by NeezDuts View Post
      Could, but wont, so its not.
      could understand but won't....

      geez
      Quote Originally Posted by Barry2952
      I dragged her back to see the $4,500 Pacer. She hated it, but we bought it. She went home and cried. (when we sold it) my wife put an ad in the newspaper. A woman came out to look at the car. She said, "I really didn't go out looking for a Pacer." My wife replied, "Lady, nobody goes out looking for a Pacer. It's eighteen hundred bucks, take it or leave it!" The woman took it and drove away smiling. My wife cried.

    17. Member jettafan[atic]'s Avatar
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      10-11-2010 11:55 PM #41
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      That's completely besides the general point.

      It doesn't matter if it can use the engine to directly drive the car or not. It maintains the 40-ish mile pure electric range.

      Under that range there is no functional difference between something with only batteries and this car.

      In day to day usage most people in the country wouldn't use a drop of gas. We average something like 12k miles per year, that's less than 40 per day.
      See, what he's referring to is the general classification of the car which is black and white, cut and dry. The powertrain uses two methods of powering the car making it a hybrid vehicle, plain and simple. Yes it operates as a pure EV until the batteries drop down to 30% but it really doesn't matter if the ICE is never even run once over the vehicles life because it is still there which makes the Volt undeniably a hybrid. Does its classification make it any less impressive? Of course not, it's just a title.
      Quote Originally Posted by a3lad View Post
      the mods aborted the thread and now who knows what that thread might have turn out to be... maybe one day it wouldve cured cancer.

    18. Member
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      10-12-2010 12:04 AM #42
      a little bit of testing the electric mode (albeit driving rather gingerly)

      greencarreports.com

      http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...ve-impressions

      Eking out battery range
      We're not big fans of hypermiling, but our Chevrolet hosts had set up a competition among journalists to cover the 43.2 miles from the Detroit Airport to suburban Rochester Hills entirely on electric power--and see who would have the most range left over.
      The Volt's official range, using roughly 8 of the 16 kilowatt-hours of energy stored in its lithium-ion battery pack, is 25 to 50 miles. The competition clearly intended to underline that in fact 40 or more miles of electric range is possible in the 2011 Volt.
      The route included no freeways, however, and few speeds above 45 miles per hour. That's not necessarily representative of how the Volt will be used in real life.
      A few journalists ignored the challenge altogether, but after grumbling, we agreed to compete. We placed solidly in the middle of the pack, arriving with 3 miles of electric range left, for a total of 46-plus miles. The winner managed over 50 miles of electric range.
      Last edited by Lightnin'; 10-12-2010 at 12:15 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      I drive a rental car, I don't know what's going on with it, right? So a lot of times I'll drive for like 10 miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it really doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake.
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?
      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

    19. 10-12-2010 12:18 AM #43
      Prius has created such a reputation as a hybrid, that anything offering more range than it on battery throws people off. Prius is only a primitive hybrid, whereas the Volt took an evolutionary step.

    20. 10-12-2010 01:58 AM #44


      -- DavidV

    21. Member
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      10-12-2010 08:40 AM #45
      sounds like the fun is just beginning with the plug-in game

      msnbc blog thru Oregon

      at least with the Volt, you aren't dependent on juice

      Alan Boyle writes:If you think trying to find an outlet for your laptop at the airport is a chore, wait until you have to find an outlet for your electric car at the hotel.
      That's the quandary that faced us this evening as we rolled into Medford, Ore., our overnight stop on an 800-mile road trip in a Chevy Volt. Actually, our Volt was one of the four electric-plus-gasoline-powered cars making their way across the country as part of Chevrolet's "Volt Unplugged" tour. As the sun was about to set, we pulled into the TownePlace Suites' parking lot and headed into the hotel lobby.
      Chevrolet Communications' Adam Denison asked the clerk at the desk where we should plug in the cars — and that's when the trouble began.
      "I beg your pardon?" the clerk said. She hadn't heard anything about finding electrical outlets for four cars, and what's more, she didn't have any of our names on the registration list.
      Actually, the clerk's quizzical reaction is probably what most electric-car drivers will face when they go on the road. To look into the issue of finding hotel plug-in power, I called around to seven Medford hotels in advance of this week's trip. The reactions ranged from "I'm sure there has to be an outlet somewhere" to "call back tomorrow" to the straightforward response I got from an establishment billed as Medford's finest hotel: "We do not have plug-ins available for hybrids."
      Tonight, after working through the clerk's confusion, we found out that our reservations were actually at the TownePlace Suites' sister hotel across the parking lot, the SpringHill Suites. Both places are part of the Marriott hotel chain, one of the partners for the "Volt Unplugged" tour, so the SpringHill folks knew we were coming and had a sheet of instructions ready for us, listing the locations of electrical outlets on the building's exterior.
      Simple, right? Wrong.
      Looking for the outlets turned into a cross between an Easter egg hunt and a peeping-tom convention. We skulked around the perimeter of the hotel in the darkening twilight, walking through the bushes and under windows in search of places to plug in.
      "If we can't plug in, we can't plug in," Denison said with a shrug.
      I finally found one of the outlets near the disabled-parking places, and the other near the hotel dumpster. We decided it wouldn't be right to park our shiny new Volt in the disabled zone, so instead, the hotel let us park it right next to the front entrance. We laid out some red traffic cones, plugged in the Volt's specially designed 120-volt charging set and strapped the extension it down to the sidewalk with duct tape.
      Two more outlets were found at the TownePlace, with the help of the SpringHill Suites' instructions and the TownePlace's maintenance crew. In the process, I found out that the Volt's charging cord set works best if it's the only thing plugged into an outlet, even if it's a double-socket outlet. If you try sharing an outlet with another device in the other socket, you have to cut back on the amps for charging, or risk blowing a circuit.
      That's not all: The Chevy crew wanted the hotel to turn off the automatic sprinkler system for the night, just to make sure that an inconveniently placed cord set didn't get soaked. I just hope the expensive-looking set is still there in the morning when the 9- to 10-hour charging process is complete.
      We spent the better part of an hour making the arrangements to plug in four cars, which made me wonder how hotels will handle the plug-in issue when there are thousands of electric cars on the road. If you're visiting your Aunt Rita, she'll probably let you run an extension cord out to your car from the front porch. But if you're staying overnight at a hotel, you might have to fight your way to an outlet — or just continue to fill 'er up at the gas station down the street. And even if the hotels are accommodating now, will they be so willing to give electricity away when 40 drivers are clamoring for overnight juice?

      Am I making a mountain out of a 120-volt molehill? Or is this an electric-car complication that hasn't yet been thought completely through?


      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      I drive a rental car, I don't know what's going on with it, right? So a lot of times I'll drive for like 10 miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it really doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake.
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?
      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

    22. Member
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      10-12-2010 08:48 AM #46
      Volt will wear Buick badge in the world's largest auto market... China





      http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-in-china.html
      Thanks to a patent filing process in China, it has been revealed that the Chevy Volt will be badged as a Buick model in what is now the world’s largest auto market. To be more specific, the Opel Ampera (the European version of the Volt) will actually be badged as a Buick. You see, in China, the government requires that automakers file a design patent to ensure that vehicle designs aren’t copied (ironic, we know). And it just so happens that the design submitted to the Chinese patent office is that of the European Ampera and not the Volt.

      The decision to badge the Volt/Ampera as a Buick in China makes sense, when you consider the high-esteem and good sales of the Buick brand there.

      Adding the Buick badge to the Volt now means that there will be five different Volt-like models, including the original, the Opel Ampera, as well as the Vauxhall Ampera (U.K.) and the Holden Ampera (Australia).

    23. Senior Member
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      10-12-2010 09:40 AM #47
      Quote Originally Posted by Lightnin' View Post
      From article quoted by above journalist "Am I making a mountain out of a 120-volt molehill? Or is this an electric-car complication that hasn't yet been thought completely through?"

      I am so tired of idiots that say utterly STUPID things like this.

      1) GM or Toyota or Nissan or Chery... their job is to offer a vehicle(s) to get society from ICE to Hybrids to EREVs to EVs. Period. That's it.

      2) It is society's other elements' (i.e. other businesses... like HOTELS or employers or restaurants, etc.) job to help SUPPORT these vehicles with the proper INFRASTRUCTURE. NOT the auto companies!!!



      Hello????

      WTH is wrong with people these days that they would automatically ASSUME one entity is somehow responsible to do EVERYTHING in order to get society moving towards something more efficient???

      Should Nissan diversify into electric powerplants and stop burning coal? Should GM start building windfarms? Should VW start building 480V charging stations along I-75???

      Why are people so freakin' stupid?

    24. Banned justanotherusername's Avatar
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      10-12-2010 09:50 AM #48
      Quote Originally Posted by uncleho View Post
      From article quoted by above journalist "Am I making a mountain out of a 120-volt molehill? Or is this an electric-car complication that hasn't yet been thought completely through?"

      I am so tired of idiots that say utterly STUPID things like this.
      :
      That's a prime example of a journalist just making up something to write about.

      This statement says it all:

      "If we can't plug in, we can't plug in," Denison said with a shrug.
      Why didn't they just give up on plugging in, and head to the bar instead of thrashing around in the bushes like idiots? That's the beauty of the Volt....you don't HAVE to plug it in on long trips!

      ****ing morons.

    25. Member intercedeGLI's Avatar
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      10-12-2010 09:58 AM #49
      Quote Originally Posted by justanotherusername View Post
      Why didn't they just give up on plugging in, and head to the bar instead of thrashing around in the bushes like idiots? That's the beauty of the Volt....you don't HAVE to plug it in on long trips!

      ****ing morons.
      And this is why I feel ohh-soo bad for the poor salesman who sells on of these things to just about anyone.

      Wonder what GM market research thinks about giving potential owners a little quiz......

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      10-12-2010 10:00 AM #50
      I get a kick out of these idiots and this blog thru Oregon.

      I can hardly wait till they get to this National Monument in Southwest Oregon and start grumbling about having to use a 1,320 foot power cord to charge up.

      Just gas up, nutjobs, just gas up.







      Last edited by Lightnin'; 10-12-2010 at 10:03 AM.
      Quote Originally Posted by mitch hedberg
      I drive a rental car, I don't know what's going on with it, right? So a lot of times I'll drive for like 10 miles with the emergency brake on. That doesn't say a lot for me, but it really doesn't say a lot for the emergency brake.
      Quote Originally Posted by Robstr View Post
      How hard is that to understand without getting your panties in a bunch?
      Surely some of you guys managed to make it out of middle school.

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