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DIY How To: Wideband 02 harness conversion for support of Pressure Based Tunes

81K views 87 replies 25 participants last post by  krashot 
#1 ·
Wideband Conversion why?

When moving away from the factory ME7 tune you have options such as flashing the ecu with a fixed 93 octane tune, or go standalone, or move to BT tunes. Some of the quality BT tunes need the feedback from a wideband 02 sensor rather than the narrowband 02. With the feedback from the knock, cam, crank, MAP, with the wideband sensors the tuner is able to create a Pressure based tune that IMO is highly reliable.

Wideband ECU Conversion applies to?
Early generation 225 TTs (AMU) had narrow band 02 sensors and did not have VVT, look at your head, if it's stamped BEA you should see an electrical plug on the right of the head at the cam chain tensioner which will confirm that you have a wideband already in which case you don’t need to read this wideband conversion.
Notice the electrical connector on this Cam Chain Tensioner, if your has this you have a wideband system already.


Required tools-Parts
1. You'll need a VW/Audi connector pin removal tool, you can source these at your local napa / or other parts dealer usually in a round circle tool that has multiple ends on it, or here are some other examples... the small green one on the lower right would be a good example, or in a pinch you can make one out of a pair of tweezers and a grinder




2. Go to a junk yard, get half a wiring harness from a wideband VW GTI / 180HP TT or wideband 225 TT (simply look at the head and if the VVT has an electrical connector it should be a wideband harness). If you source one from a Wideband TT no problem, you can actually swap it right into your car! Don’t forget to also grab the plastic cover from under the car that is used to hold the 02 connectors. If the harness came from a VW the harness will be too short by about 8 inches at the ecu and as such you should not swap it into the car instead you should follow the steps documented below...The pics show the plastic 02 cover from the bottom of the car and shows the 8" problem between the Audi ECU location vs the VW notice how the plug to the ecu is too short on the bottom(VW) harness compared to the top(TT) harness.

Here's the deal, Don't cut the harness, I will always worry that I introduced extra resisitance and in the future anytime I have a wierd issue I will worry it's from my soldering / heat shrink etc.


3. Next go to a dealer or there are a few sites on line and buy some new pins of various sizes, I keep a stock of small med and large pins, without wires and some like the 2nd pic with the yellow wire in them for projects like this. The one you need will be a large pin for the ecu # 115



3. Go to Frys or somewhere get three Resistors, 15 Ohm 25 Watt. One is for the VVT, the other two are in case you want to do a evap delete and your LTF trims don't adapt, you either have to plug the elect back in or try the resistor. (With the Evap delete you don't get a CEL, but your LTFs don't adapt)

4. Source a WideBand motronic ECU and have your tuner place the appropriate BT Mafless tune on it. (VW ECUs will save you a lot of money and work fine, the pic below is generic don’t try to read the numbers)

5. Pick up a wideband 02 sensor, I found autozone to be very cheap for a factory Bosch Wideband ($50 range) I specify a 1.8T GTI 2002

Time to get to Work:
Disclaimer: This process is not for the average person, and I am providing it only so that you will know what worked for me. I am not stating that this is safe for you or your car, use this information at your own risk. You should double check with your tuner before taking any of these steps, you should ensure that the process below will work for your vehicle, you should check your Bentley and ensure that the pin out data / relays etc apply to your vehicle. You should have Voltmeters, shrink wrap, solder, soldering iron, etc and be comfortable with electronics before attempting this process.
(Disconnect your battery and allow the car to sit for 10-30 mins before starting this process)
1. Run a new wire from the new clip that you install in pin 115 of the ecu harness to the resistor, then to relay 100 (you need switched power from a relay) A suggested relay is 100 as it was used for your SAI, which you might have decided to delete, I am pretty sure that you'll want pin 3,. this relay is in the box right next to your plastic wire duct on the right hand side of the car leaving the engine bay to go through the drip tray. You'll notice in this pic where I am relocating relay 100 and the resistor into a 02 cap that I will place on top of the cover under the drip tray. I personally used a different relay for a secondary fuel pump so I could move the box completely, but that was me which is why I am guessing on pin 3.


5. Unwrap the donor harness, take the wires for the wideband 02 sensor along with the connector and the pins from the ecu, write down the color code / pin out on the ecu connector, pull the pins and then insert them into the harness on your car. (You'll have to remove the pins from your current narrowband. (I advise you to double check your Bentley and to read the elec drawings from the Bentley to determine what pins you should use)
On WideBand harness for a BEA Motor G39=Heated Oxygen Sensor ECU Pins=[ 51=grey/white, 70=green, 52=grey/red, 71=black, 5=brown/green]

When you have the car running with the new wideband ecu remember to check your LTF ie adaptation via block 033 the % should be changing
Note 1: for me I found having the tuner kill ESP was a must... with big WHP ESP is just a problem you don't need.
Note 2: If you go with a aftermarket EBC instead of using your N79 be sure to install some sort of boost cut safety. In my case I am reusing one of the evap solenoids and running a signal to it from my water meth computer. If the water meth computer receives an AFR problem message+EGT+RPM+TPS, then it sends a signal to the solenoid to dump my boost and keep me from cooking the motor. Once all is said and done don't worry about the following code when you vag your car... 18058 Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster P1650 -35-00 Since we are using donor ECUs from VW as they are alot cheaper, this code is always present, but does not cause a CEL, nor any emissions / performance concerns.

 
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#29 ·
FV-QR

In my opinion (unless I am missing something) if the page you posted is in regards to a 2001 AMU it is a misprint. I have a 2001 AMU and have had it apart several times and am positive there was not EGT sensor. On another note, which engine code did the ecu come from? I saw where you posted the ecu code but curious of the engine code and year make/model of the new ecu.
 
#31 ·
call me ignorant, but are you guys saying that changing to WB02 is only worth it for a mafless file?
what about a bt file with the all deletes except MAF?
I am curious about this ... i think i talked to Jwalker1.8 via IM about this ... im in the same town as SEM, they got WB02 Harnesses but for VW..
if i cannot source a wb02 harness from a scrap tt i will need to look into this method... seems like walker1.8's method appears to be the proper way to mod the harness
some advise fellas? -- wiring and soldering is not my thing :S
sorry jwalk1.8 i thought i saved our convo...but its lost... if you wish you can shot me another pm.


Modified by DurTTy at 10:13 AM 2-25-2010
 
#32 ·
FV-QR

Actually, any BT file is better off wideband. I had uni narrow band and it totally sucked. Search my name and look at the air fuel in my dyno graphs...lean spikes, and generally extremely rich. Since converting to wb my mpg went up 10mpg!!!! Anyway, the only way I wouldn't convert is if I had a stock turbo...BT mafless or with a maf it is worth the conversion.
PM me and I would be happy to help with any questions you may have.
 
#34 ·
Re: FV-QR (jwalker1.8)

Quote, originally posted by jwalker1.8 »
Actually, any BT file is better off wideband.

I realize that a narrowband with enough time can be dialed in close, it's hard to get that kind of attention. Look at Mthis1, he had his narrowband tune for years and was very happy with it (mostly) then he was able to have GIAC pull it into their shop and custom tuned it for him, now he's really stoked.
Most of us don't have that luxury, the Wideband 02 tune is a great compromise IMO compared to the only other effective solution (standalone)


Modified by 2001TTransport at 12:16 PM 2-25-2010
 
#35 ·
im trying to avoid standalone as well....
Tune on a factory ecu is a much more attractive to me
but it was also advised that the NB02 be converted for a 630CC file on AWP TT ecu.
i called the dealer for the part # 1J0-973-733
they claim and confirmed by the search linked, that it is an empty housing with no wires.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-...1348/
Ok... according to a few placed... its 1mm wire about a foot or less in length with pins already assembled (one on each side of wire)
the length is 1MM, part number is::
000-979-133B -- for standard high heat resistant 02 wire.
000-979-133AB for High heat, gold plated connectors

you get 3 wires and cut in 1/2 im assuming. which fills this 6 pin connector?

Here is a link to the wires to have an idea:: http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-...9-133/
Modified by DurTTy at 1:22 PM 2-25-2010


Modified by DurTTy at 7:30 PM 2-25-2010
 
#36 ·
can you show the actual finished setup from Pin 115 on the small ecu clip all the way to the evap solenoid?
im just at odds with where the resistor goes and where the solenoid clip is..
sorry for all the follow ups :S but i wanna make sure that im on the same page as you....
im off to the dealer right now to get the parts.. ill be getting the gold plated pin connectors
 
#37 ·
considering you were trying sell a connector and some wires for 150USD ... lets not forget that .. but ..
i still maintain the idea that you should not accuse tuners of trying to hide things from the public...
i spoke with uni, they indicate its a hit or miss situation.. with the adaptation
if you feel that you have to degrade yourself and rant .. thats fine no harm done.
fyi .. im not going to be doing any hacking, as i said ... wiring and sldering is not my thing ... it will be done by some1 else, and i will just clip it in.
for all that attempt this .. dont forget this is a hack of a harness.... the non hack up way is to find the awp/bea tt harness and replace correctly.
unfortunately, there is little to no other options with this as i am running out of time b4 the motor goes in, the tune is done now



Modified by DurTTy at 1:45 PM 2-26-2010
 
#38 ·
the cost of doing this is 60$ CDN so about 57USD.
AUDI DEALER PART #S
Clip : 1J0-979-733
3*WIRE FOR CLIP :000-979-133-AB (1MM)
1*WIRE FOR ECM PIN 115: 000-979-134-A (1MM)

ill give you the credit for the addition to the FYI .. its well deserved .. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Modified by DurTTy at 2:01 PM 2-26-2010
 
#39 ·
Re: (jwalker1.8)

Quote, originally posted by jwalker1.8 »

I offered you everything you needed to do the conversion including the ecu!!! Ecu is not cheap.
good luck with your conversion.

Thanks man,
it was clearly a case of broken telephone then.
either way,.. you got me going in the right direction now.. thats what matters http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
 
#40 ·
Re: (jwalker1.8)

Quote, originally posted by jwalker1.8 »

Also, what was I accusing again? I told you VVT delete will delete the code but will not recover adaptation and that is all. If that is anything more than trying to be helpful ok but honestly dude you are a dick Just about everything you stated here is a fabrication of the facts.
It's cool though, however you need to justify yourself is fine by me.

again .. if you must degrade down to a rant thats fine...
its a dog eat dog world out here.. it doesnt hurt to rub shoulders.. its just a part of lifè.
sounds like you take things a little personal,
if you feel that the tuner claims are not factual, which s a consumer i am inclined to believe, then by all means make contact with them and express your concerns.
despite your rants your are an ok guy i guess, just count down from 10 and you will be ok... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


Modified by DurTTy at 2:12 PM 2-26-2010
 
#41 ·
Re: (DurTTy)

Quote, originally posted by DurTTy »
... rant thats fine...

I posted my data which was a HELLLAAAA lot more than anyone before me did. I posted what I liked and didn't and advised others NOT to make the same mistakes.
Jwalker1.8 read the post, asked questions, and came back with value add, to pretty much complete the post helping others even more.
Durtty: When your done do the same, I just read a page of trash for no reason, give me my 3 mins back
 
#42 ·
Re: (2001TTransport)

Quote, originally posted by 2001TTransport »

I posted my data which was a HELLLAAAA lot more than anyone before me did. I posted what I liked and didn't and advised others NOT to make the same mistakes.
Jwalker1.8 read the post, asked questions, and came back with value add, to pretty much complete the post helping others even more.
Durtty: When your done do the same, I just read a page of trash for no reason, give me my 3 mins back

I agree, keep it technical,
 
#43 ·
Re: (DurTTy)

Quote, originally posted by DurTTy »

if you feel that the tuner claims are not factual, which s a consumer i am inclined to believe, then by all means make contact with them and express your concerns.

I think you miss the point. It is not that the tuner's claim is false, the tuners will tell you straight out that what they are doing is deleting a check engine light.
If you are inclined to believe otherwise by all means give it a try and see what happens.
Report back and let us know how it works out.
 
#44 ·
Dealer told me parts will be ready on tuesday.
BTW
as it was not entirely clear to me at 1st,
based on the pics .. after discussing with jwalker1.8 it was concluded that
the evap solenoid valve is not the only place where the resistor can be attached to.. for those looking at alternate sources.
evap solenoid (stock location is beside the Power Sterring Reservoir) which means a wire would have to run from harness all the way to the front by the headlight.
i was originally confused since it appears to be out of location in the pic, this is cuz jwalker has done the evap delete
aparently, as advised, any constant 12v source can be used.
im going to have all this prepped and hopefully i can get some pics in while i have an empty engine bay
 
#45 ·
Re: (DurTTy)

can someone clear up something else please?
the resistor atteches one end to the wire you add to the smaller harness clip on the ecu.
the other end needs any switched 12v. pin #1 form the evap solenoid was reccomended.
is that correct?
lastly, i scored an awp ecu from an automatic gli.
i plan on using it in my 2002 TT 225.
i will be getting maestro on it and immobilizer defeat.
are there any complication to doing this??


Modified by speed51133! at 8:08 AM 5/1/2010
 
#46 ·
FV-QR

Yes, that loose yellow pin I sent you is for the resistor. The pin will attach into the ecu harness, then will have the resistor inline, then will go to the evap or where ever you choose.
It sounds like you should be good to go with that ecu, the one question I do have is are you 100% positive you are narrowband to start? I thought some 2002 where wb. I may be wrong with that assumption though.
 
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