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    1. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 10:22 AM #1
      Folks,
      I just woke up and it hit me.... I think there is a very easy solution for us the MK4 guys that are wanting the BBM charger. If only we can get two companies to collaborate...
      Here are the issues with MK4s and BBM charger:
      1. The alternator sits higher and the BBM bracket for the MK3s will not work. There is not enough room for the pulley.
      2. You can't place the BBM charger at the back of the engine due to lack of space and complications with the ducting as the MK4 airbox is on the driver side of the engine bay much closer to the windshield.
      So I've been thinking: the biggest thing about the BBM charger and the MK4s is the fact that there isn't a good spot in the engine bay that will accomodate the charger, allow you to run proper ducting for air intake and intercooling for later stages.
      Now, consider this: You purchase a USRT manifold. You have options of placing the throttle body on the left or on the right. This will free up lots of space at the back of the engine. You install the BBM charger in the same spot as the Neuspeed charger. You only have to fabricate two new brackets for the back and find a longer belt. This will:
      1) Provide enough space for the BBM charger at the back of the engine
      2. Put the charger much closer to the MK4 airbox and thus simplify the ducting
      3) You don't have to worry about the alternator location problem
      4) You will have ample space for intercooling for later stages of the BBM.
      Basically you take this:

      Add the BBM charger starter kit:

      So really, what it comes down to is finding someone to build an MK4 chip for the BBM charger, finding the right size accessory belt AND fabricating 2 brackets for the charger...
      Now, can [email protected] approach BBM and try to work with them on this... They get to sell a lot of manifolds, BBM gets to sell a lot of chargers, and us the MK4 fellas get a monster...
      Discuss!
      P.S.
      The price so far is $1600 + $525 = $2125. But that's still $400 cheaper than the neuspeed and is enough (i hope) for both companies to make profit and develop a MK4 chip and ducting...


      Modified by vasillalov at 10:25 AM 4-30-2006
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

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    3. 04-30-2006 11:51 AM #2
      i'd buy one!
      bump

    4. 04-30-2006 12:00 PM #3
      brackets are not a problem at all, thats just simple engineering.
      buying a SRI manifold and the charger seperalty works as well.
      and if you can tune it! and as you ahve said the guys at BBM pretty much got the down and dirty of the OBD2 stuff, then i really dont see a problem

      also if piping is a problem you can always relocate the windshield washer bottle...
      however i do like the fact that you end up mounting the charger (a relativly heavy peice) behind the drive wheels as opposed to infront (like an MK3)
      would make for better handling [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]


      Modified by 7thGear at 9:02 AM 4-30-2006

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    6. Awaiting Email Confirmation McNeil's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 12:04 PM #4
      Sounds good on paper. Now we need someone who is willing to experiment.

    7. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 12:08 PM #5
      Quote, originally posted by McNeil »
      Sounds good on paper. Now we need someone who is willing to experiment.

      I am, its just that I am in the middle of nowhere in butt f\/ck West Virgnia! The main problem for me would be the downtime waiting for my ECU to travel back and forth to BBM in California. I think that with some donations from USRT (used mockups of their manifold) I can get something up and running...
      Hmm...
      Come to think of it, I have a spare ECU from 98 New Beetle laying around... I could reprogram it for my car as it was from AEG with manual tranny. Then I could use this spare ECU to send it back and forth to BBM for chip tuning...


      Modified by vasillalov at 12:09 PM 4-30-2006
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    8. Member SMG8vT's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 12:09 PM #6
      I'm looking into a supercharger in the late summer / fall, so someone please, experiment

    9. 04-30-2006 12:17 PM #7
      I would buy one [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    10. 04-30-2006 01:01 PM #8
      I believe that it could be done, but at about $3000 mininum IMHO. It cannot cost more than the NS SC.
      About ecu tuning: reading the VW documentation it caught my eye that the obd2 mk3 use Motronic 5.9 and mk4 AEGs use Motronic 5.9.2. I do not think a version 0.0.2 would make a lot of difference.

    11. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 01:14 PM #9
      Quote, originally posted by randallhb »
      I believe that it could be done, but at about $3000 mininum IMHO. It cannot cost more than the NS SC.
      About ecu tuning: reading the VW documentation it caught my eye that the obd2 mk3 use Motronic 5.9 and mk4 AEGs use Motronic 5.9.2. I do not think a version 0.0.2 would make a lot of difference.

      The difference is probably in the extra modules and systems that are present in the AEG. See the even at $3000 it is still a much better solution than the Neuspeed. You can upgrade and add intercooling MUCH MUCH easier than with Neuspeed.
      Also, the prices I posted above are for single units. I am sure the price will drop signifficantly once there is an order for 50 chargers + manifolds...
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    12. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 01:16 PM #10
      Just to push the day dreaming even further:
      Just imagine an AEB 20V head with the intake manifold + BBM charger...
      Ooooohhh!
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    13. 04-30-2006 01:18 PM #11
      in a chassis that weights 2000 lb and has 50/50 weight distribution... ahh such dreams...

    14. 04-30-2006 01:40 PM #12
      Quote, originally posted by vasillalov »
      Just to push the day dreaming even further:
      Just imagine an AEB 20V head with the intake manifold + BBM charger...
      Ooooohhh!

      Just port and polish the head and manifolds on the 2.0. Lets not transform this thread into dreams please [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

    15. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 01:46 PM #13
      Quote, originally posted by randallhb »
      Just port and polish the head and manifolds on the 2.0. Lets not transform this thread into dreams please [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]

      Sorry. I got carried away....
      I am seriously starting to think about this project. I might just whip one of the credit cards and dive into this...
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    16. Member Scuba2001's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 02:12 PM #14
      Quote, originally posted by vasillalov »
      I am seriously starting to think about this project. I might just whip one of the credit cards and dive into this...

      That can be a very dangerous thing.
      Scuba Steve
      Certified Audi Technician

    17. 04-30-2006 03:13 PM #15
      Vasil, you could have lots of space in the engine bay if you relocated the battery and removed the stock airbox.

    18. 04-30-2006 04:21 PM #16
      ok... everything sounds good... BUT!!!
      where is that picture of management systems in our cars!?!!?
      they go back and forth in what type of management system they used in mk4's
      some where drive by wire!
      so even if you put out a kit thats custom to ur car, they cant make a kit to make all the mk4's happy. Companies like to make things for widest specturm possible, custom making something that will only fit 1-2yr car production is kinda hard due to possibility of low ROI(Return on Investment). thats something for you to think about!

    19. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 05:32 PM #17
      Very good point there!
      The AEG is the only engine that is still with throttle cable. The rest are Drive By Wire. However, from mechanical standpoint, the only difference is in the throttle bodies. It all boils down to proper software. The hardware part is the harderst one..
      randallhb,
      The problem is that the charger must line up with the accessory belt because it is belt driven. I am sure you are aware of that. It makes no sense to put the charger where the factory airbox is. This leaves basically two options:
      1. Put it infront of the engine - not possible in the MK4 due to the higher standing alternator
      2. Put it at the back of the engine - requires removal of the OEM intake manifold to free up space (ala Neuspeed style). With the USRT manifold, this is very feasible...
      Again, it all boils down to chip tuning and fabricating some brackets and ducting...


      Modified by vasillalov at 5:34 PM 4-30-2006
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    20. 04-30-2006 06:26 PM #18
      I already got a hkk manifold so if you guys can get a kit together with a burnt chip im in.

    21. Member ll Black Blurr ll's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 06:35 PM #19
      bump for a great idea! [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      Polska

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    22. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 06:58 PM #20
      Here is another shot:

      Now, imagine the charger sitting at the back of the endine. In the MK4 you can actually hook it up with the existing airbox. You won't even have to relocate throttle body or MAF or any other...
      On the other hand, you can have the USRT manifold with TB opening on the passenger side. Connect the two with some piping and your are done. All that's left is the chip tuning...
      I am thinking of starting to take donations for this project.
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    23. 04-30-2006 07:37 PM #21
      Vasil, you could mount the SC in the back of the engine. I just went out to check it out and I think that after removing the intake manifold there is enough space between the head and the firewall.
      1) then you could add piping to a 1.8T sidemount IC (cheaper to get used) and then use a USRT manifold with the entrance on the passanger side. OR
      2) you could add longer piping to a frontmount IC and use a USRT manifoled with the entrance on the drivers side
      I think it is very possible and just a matter a test fitting. Write to both companies to get the units for test fitting [IMG]http://*****************.com/smile/emthup.gif[/IMG]
      You deserve a


      Modified by randallhb at 6:38 PM 4-30-2006

    24. 04-30-2006 08:03 PM #22
      Quote, originally posted by vasillalov »
      Here is another shot:
      On the other hand, you can have the USRT manifold with TB opening on the passenger side. Connect the two with some piping and your are done. All that's left is the chip tuning...

      i dont think this would work, notice in your own pic, the TB is BEFORE the charger
      whatever manifold USRT will make (if we dont use existing ones) wont need a TB plate, because after the charger there should be as small and bentless pipe as possible before the intake runners.

    25. Member vasillalov's Avatar
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      04-30-2006 08:31 PM #23
      Quote, originally posted by 7thGear »
      i dont think this would work, notice in your own pic, the TB is BEFORE the charger
      whatever manifold USRT will make (if we dont use existing ones) wont need a TB plate, because after the charger there should be as small and bentless pipe as possible before the intake runners.

      No no,
      What I meant was that the USRT manifold would have to have the air opening on the passenger side. The throttle body will have to be before the charger anyway...
      Quote Originally Posted by MAG58 View Post
      Please consider your audience before saying something sensible. 80% of TCL drivers were actually banned from Formula 1 for being too fast.
      A turbocharger is a device in where exhaust gases go in, witchcraft happens, and then you go faster.

    26. 05-01-2006 12:29 AM #24
      Quote, originally posted by vasillalov »
      The hardware part is the harderst one..

      i think software is the hardpart.... having to tune 2 different ecu systems vs just dealing w. hardware that will be the same all mk4s. look at it this way! if it was soo simple to tune, we would have multiple revisions that are still not complete w. the mk3 kit!
      Quote, originally posted by vasillalov »
      It all boils down to proper software.

      BINGO!

    27. 05-01-2006 08:29 AM #25
      i like where this is heading...we can deff make this work, just need someone to send me a mk4 and the charger, we can make all the brackets and such, and then we take it to 3 hours south to our secret software guru who can tune it no problem

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